I do can my own catsup, and I thicken it by cooking, cooking and more cooking. Mine has never separated. Here's the recipe I use from Michigan State University Extension Service. This is not like Heinz at all, it's more like a "really good steak sauce" according to my daughter. They like it best made with half brown sugar and half white sugar.

TOMATO KETCHUP

24 lbs ripe tomatoes
3 cups chopped onions
3/4 teaspoon ground red pepper (cayenne)
3 cups cider vinegar (5%)
4 tsp whole cloves
3 sticks cinnamon, crushed
1-1/2 tsp whole allspice
3 tbsp celery seeds
1-1/2 cups sugar
1/4 cup salt

YIELD: 6 to 7 pints

PROCEDURE: Wash tomatoes. Dip in boiling water for 30
to 60 seconds or until skins split. Dip in cold water.
Slip off skins and remove cores. Quarter tomatoes into
4-gallon stock pot or a large kettle. Add onions and red
pepper. Bring to boil and simmer 20 minutes, uncovered.
Combine spices in a spice bag and add to vinegar in a 2-
quart saucepan. Bring to boil. Cover, turn off heat and
hold tomato mixture 20 minutes. Then, remove spice bag
and combine vinegar and tomato mixture. Boil about 30
minutes. Put boiled mixture through a food mill or
sieve. Return to pot. Add sugar and salt, boil gently,
and stir frequently until volume is reduced by one-half
or until mixture rounds up on spoon without separation.
Fill pint jars, leaving 1/8-inch headspace. Adjust
lids and process pints and half pints 15 minutes in a boiling water bath.

Now, if you want something more like Heinz, here's a recipe posted by Linda Lou, but it's not a canning recipe I don't think:

Top Secret Recipes Catsup like Heinz

One 6-ounce can tomato paste
1/2 cup light corn syrup
1/2 cup white vinegar
1/4 cup water
1 tablespoon sugar
1 teaspoon salt
1/4 teaspoon onion powder
1/8 teaspoon garlic powder

Homemade ketchup in a pinch.

1. Combine all ingredients in a medium saucepan over medium heat. Whisk until smooth.
2. When mixture comes to a boil, reduce heat and simmer for 20 minutes, stirring often.
3. Remove pan from heat and cover until cool. Chill and store in a covered container. (http://www.topsecretrecipes.com)
Makes 1 1/2 cups.

Annie

NCHFP provides 2 different recipes for catsup (linked below) and we have made both. The Country Catsup is more spicy of course due to the chili peppers but you can always cut back on them if you wish. The Tomato Ketchup recipe is our favorite, it is more like Heinz, contains onions, and you can add peppers and garlic too as both are removed before processing. Go easy on the garlic as it can get bitter over time in storage.

And there is also this recipe from freshpreserving.com

Tomato Ketchup
Makes about 7 (16 oz) pints

You will need:
 3 Tbsp celery seeds
 4 tsp whole cloves
 2 cinnamon sticks, broken into pieces
 1-1/2 tsp whole allspice
 3 cups cider vinegar
 24 lb tomatoes, cored and quartered (about 72 medium)
 3 cups chopped onions (about 4 medium)
 1 tsp cayenne pepper
 1-1/2 cups granulated sugar
 1/4 cup Ball® Simple Creations® Preserving & Pickling Salt
 7 (16 oz) pint glass preserving jars with lids and bands

Directions:
1.) TIE celery seeds, cloves, cinnamon sticks and allspice in a square of cheesecloth, creating a spice bag.
2.) COMBINE vinegar and spice bag in a stainless steel saucepan. Bring to a boil over high heat. Remove from heat and let stand for 25 minutes. Discard spice bag.
3.) COMBINE tomatoes, onions and cayenne in a clean large stainless steel saucepan. Bring to a boil over high heat, stirring frequently. Reduce heat and boil gently for 20 minutes. Add infused vinegar and boil gently until vegetables are soft and mixture begins to thicken, about 30 minutes.
4.) TRANSFER mixture, working in batches, to a sieve placed over a glass or stainless steel bowl and press with the back of a spoon to extract all the liquid. This can also be done using a food mill. Discard solids.
5.) RETURN liquid to saucepan. Add sugar and salt. Bring to a boil over medium heat, stirring occasionally. Reduce heat and boil gently, stirring frequently, until volume is reduced by half and mixture is almost the consistency of commercial ketchup, about 45 minutes.
6.) PREPARE boiling water canner. Heat jars and lids in simmering water until ready for use. Do not boil. Set bands aside.
7.) LADLE hot ketchup into hot jars leaving 1/2 inch headspace. Remove air bubbles. Wipe rim. Center lid on jar. Apply band until fit is fingertip tight.
8.) PROCESS jars in a boiling water canner for 15 minutes, adjusting for altitude. Remove jars and cool. Check lids for seal after 24 hours. Lid should not flex up and down when center is pressed.

As Annie said it is the cooking down and more cooking after running it all through the tomato mill that is the secret. If cooked down to the proper consistency over several hours it doesn't separate anymore than store bought bottles do and what little separation does happen can be easily fixed with just a bit of stirring or shaking.

Dave

Here is a link that might be useful: NCHFP - Ketchup recipes

I thnk Ball and Mrs. Wages make ketchup mixes. For me, I would thicken with dried granulated onion, and tomato powder. These absorb the liquids and can thicken it quite a lot. My last batch was so thick i had to put a spatter screen on teh pot as it was bubbling up big gobs flying everwhere!! A small amount of Clear Jel can also help to thicken, but use it sparingly.

Here is a link that might be useful: Tomato powder source

You can make any of the recipes, but it is not safe to add Clear jel to any tomato products before canning. Again, this is a density thing, and changing the density would affect the proper processing time and method. Doing anything to change density when canning is not a wise thing to do.
If you want a link to verify what I am saying about not thickening tomato products, I can find it and post it later.

Thank you all so much for the replies!

> You can make any of the recipes, but it is not safe to add Clear jel to any tomato products before canning. Again, this is a density thing, and changing the density would affect the proper processing time and method. Doing anything to change density when canning is not a wise thing to do.

That was a surprise! Actually the separating of the solids and liquids was a larger worry and I thought ClearJel might have been the answer. I can pressure process if need be.

The ketchup mixes mentioned, DO CONTAIN a thickener. Older recipes used flour and because there is high acid tomatoes as well as acidic vinegar added above and beyond the amount used to can tomatoes alone, I serously doubt if density would ever be an issue unless it was made ito a pudding. We go through this every year and every year I say the same thing, ketchup mixes have thickeners added, and some recipes even call for a little flour, just like what they use for thickening mustards. Clear Jel can be used to thicken apples for canned pie filling, which to me are about the same acidity or less than ketchup. Even for that, apple pie fillings have higher and denser apple slices too, whereas ketchup has no solids in it.

Yes, commercial ones may have it, but we are not commercial industries to make up those packets. This is important to remember. We cannot duplicate many things in our kitchens.
It is NOT safe to add Clear Jel at home to your recipes. Not other than pie fillings or for jam. This is what is said:
***************************************
Never add a thickening product such as flour, cornstarch, rice or pasta to tomatoes before canning. These products will also change the acidity level of your tomatoes. You may thicken tomato products before serving. If you do thicken your tomato soup mixture, it can be frozen successfully but never canned.
***********************

Clear Jel is modified corn starch. Just won't break down, but still cornstarch.

Here is a link that might be useful: Do not thicken tomato products before canning.

Your stating all the thickeners that are NOT safe to home can, flour, corn starch, and even tapioca. Clear Jel has been proven to work very well in most any home canning recipe that contains sufficient acid. Ketchup conmtains gare more added acid than reular canned tomatoes. Yes, ist a modified foor starch and is suitable for home canning as it remains stable and will not break down or change in density once canned. I use it in my ketchup and have also used the ketchup mixes for canning at home that contain the same 'modified food starch'.

Guess you didn't read the part about not thickening tomato products prior to canning ? That is what this is about. Use it if you want, but that doesn't make it safe to do.
Any thickener added slows down heat penetration, so the processing time will be wrong. It is about density, not just ph. Clear jel is only for pie fillings and jam. Nothing else if you follow safe guidelines.

Why would you want gelled ketchup anyway? Doesn't even sound good.

Tomato products separate - they just do. How much depends on how it is cooked - but it isn't a big issue as far as I can see.

Dave

Clear Jel is also for adding to some specific relish recipes. I did forget to add that.
For me it is easiest to add Instant Clear jel to anything I want thicker after opening.
No thickeners are listed on my bottle of commercial Hunts ketchup. They don't add any. I just looked.

Hunts that might be true, but MRS. WAGES and the BALL KETCHUP mixes do have modified food starch as an ingredient. Instant Clear Jel is very hard to mix into a thick product like a relish without it clumping first. When I plan to do relishes again, I will be using the 20% vinegar instead of the watery 5%. That way it will have more than enough acid (just like home made ketchup) and still be safe to can due to the much higher acid level.

Here is a link that might be useful: A bit of humor..

ok so what would be the differece between using a thickener and boiling until thick?
I did just look at ms wages mixes last night the #1 ingedient is starch thats not a commercial canned product it goes into your tomatoes at home

The thickeners slow down heat penetration and change the density, as well as ph level. If you will read the link it will explain it. So now you have an unsafe product. Changed the density, changed the ph from the original tested recipe.
The recipes for ketchup do NOT include thickeners of any kind. The processing time is only for those ingredients and the method given. The recipe will tell you how long or how thick to make it. The tomatoes, spices, vinegar are not thickeners. You will see no thickeners added.
Sure, Mrs. Wages has a thickener, but they have added extra acidifiers, etc. and have tested those products to be used in a lab. Again, you are all trying to take a commercial product and duplicate it by making up your own. It just is not safe to do that. You can't test your own ketchup at home for the density and ph to know if the processing time would be sufficient.
Why don't you email the National Center for Home Food Preservation and not take my word for it ?
They also have a free online course you can take.
This link below is also full of good information.
Why don't you find me a safe, reliable link that states it is fine to add any thickener to ketchup other than a packaged, commercial mix ? I would be happy to look at it.

Here is a link that might be useful: Food domain from MSU.

I'm not understanding some of this. If adding ClearJel changes things so much then why not just change the processing time and methods to safely do the job? Is it because no one else has done it so there is no 'certified' safe recipe to follow?

> Tomato products separate - they just do.

I guess that's that then.

I am just curious as to the question jonas302 posted about adding a thickener vs. cooking until thick.

I wouldn't want Clearjel in my catsup (personal choice as well as following tested recipes), but is there a point where cooked down tomato sauce, catsup, tomato paste is no longer safe to can because it's too thick?

pickler_gardener: Yes, sometimes that is the reason recipes are not considered "safe". No reliable testing has been done or the variables (i.e. acidity of your tomatoes) are too great to be able to come up with a fool proof recipe. It takes lots of time and money to fully test products and many just aren't! There's no way they can test every home canners favorite recipe to see if it's safe.

It took Annie 5 years to have her salsa recipe tested and approved through Michigan State.

This is why we can't just adjust the processing times/methods to make it safe. We don't have the ability at home to determine what is safe, so no way of knowing if adding time to the processing or adding acid is "enough".

Then there's the palatability issue. The "tested" recipes also take into consideration the taste, texture, etc.
Summer squash, for example, vary in density so much, they should not be canned. By the time you processed long enough to ensure heat penetration, they would be mush! So they don't "approve" that.

Deanna

Finally found it. This is what started my thinking ClearJel might work. I had googled something last week and this link was posted by someone on this forum, but I forget who. All I saved to my Favorites was this:

Here is a link that might be useful: Purchasing and Using ClearJel

Adding a tiny amount of Clear Jel just to help improve teh thickness is fine. As mentioned, not an amount that would make it turn to tomato pudding. Adding dried tomato powder and powdered onion and garlic, and even powdered vinegar can also help to thicken it.

Things are not safe as they have not been tested. That goes for most anything on this earth!

As far as Summer Squash, to me its too watery and bland. Much prefer the crooked neck type that has much more flavor.

Deanna,
This is why it says how long to cook, or what it should look like when it is done, etc., in tomato products. That will insure the right consistency.

One of the main reasons people want to can their own foods is to get away from all of the added extra things. Especially nowdays is the high fructose corn syrup. It is in commercial ketchup. So, of course homecanned will be different. We expect that when home preserving.

I do agree, each batch of some foods will not be totally consistent. Just like pumpkin butter, how they cannot come up with a recipe that is safe 100 percent of the time, even with extensive testing.

I still never cease to be amazed at how upset people get when told that something is not safe. How they feel they MUST have a certain food in a jar, or do it a certain way. Even go so far to invent their own methods and recipes. I would think people would rather be safe, all the time, with their food. No one has ever been able to give me an answer as to why things are so important to them to do them unsafely and take a risk.
Why can't you just add the thickener after you open the jar ? That is what I do if I want it thicker. Instant Clear Jel does that beautifully. No cooking involved, just stir a little in. Problem solved.

Here is a source for many kinds of ketchup, including some with very low sugar or fructose.

Here is a link that might be useful: Ketchup types

Pickler do you have a ball book the barbecue sauce recipe calls for onions peppers and garlic The ketchup recipe has everything but the garlic if you need I can post the recipes I might try the bar b sauce in the morning

Ken how much clear gel and or tomato powder do you use I was concerned about the cost of the powder if it requires a lot

As far as seperation I have saved my old sqeeze bottles so after I open a pint it will go in the fridge that way for easy shaking a dispensing

Haven't tried the Clear Jel on my ketchup batches yet. But did use a mix the last time. I did add some dried granulated onion, garlic, and tomato powder, just to get it a little thicker. I also added a little powdered vinegar to highten the flavor without adding any more liquid. The amount needed would vary greatly due to the fact that the amount of tomato sauce and its initial thickness isn't consistant. I just added maybe a half cup of the tomato powder, and stirred it in, while boiling. As mentioned, I had to place a spatter screen on the pot as big globs would shoot out from the big bubbles of boiling ketchup. The powdered tomato can also be used in place of tomato paste in most any recipe too. Yes, store bought ketchup does have seperated liquid on the surface. I like to carefully tip the botttle and let the watery liquid drip out. Heinz used to have a cap that would hold back the watery liquid, but not anymore. I never refrigerate my ketchup either, as it has so much vinegar in it that there is no way it would spoil of go bad and turn to 'vinegar'? Most resturants have it on tables all the time. I put mine up in pints, and made a few with added finely chopped dried sweet peppers and dried onions to give it a slightly chunky texture.

> Pickler do you have a ball book...

Jonas,

Yes, I do. It's a 2006 edition so is probably UTD. Page 260 for bbq sauce & I see that I've been spelling ketchup wrong.

Ken,

Powdered vinegar? Where can I buy that? I'm definately going to order some tomato powder. Never knew there was such a thing & it's been a terrible tomato growing year. Thanks!

pg

Sure, here is the source for powdered vinegar.

Here is a link that might be useful: Powdered vinegar source

Bulk Foods.com http://www.bulkfoods.com/products.asp sells most any canning/cooking spices or supplies you might need. Ken has posted about it here often.

Powdered tomato is readily available from them as well as several different acid powders.

Dave

I've tried on three different days to order from Bulk Foods online and have given up.

I don't know what kind of browser your using, but I just placed an order at Bulk Foods for some Calcium Chloride (1 pound 10 ounces, as well as a couple of sugarless candies. I use a VERY OLD Netscape browser software and Windows 98!! I didn't see any problem placing the order and it went through with my CC info with no problems at all. I have never had any problems with any orders placed through them. They are offering specials of dried hot red peppers and powdered cilantro this month.
They do ship to Canada and some other countries as well as AK and HI.
You can call them by phone too at 1-419-537-1713, or FAX at 1-888-285-5266.

You need to ENABLE COOKIES in order to place orders on the Bulk Foods site. Also, if the order is not submitted, it will time out after 20 minutes and clear the 'cart'. If your using an old internet browser, you may want to upgrade. A good browser is Fire Fox, but it will not work on my old Windows 98 OS.

DONT GIVE UP SO QUICKLY!!!

I do have to interject on the catsup never spoiling issue.

A million years ago in another life, I owned a bar and grille. We washed and refilled fancy catsup jars from large cans. The catsup bottles were kept on the tables until one day a customer told me that the catsup was spoiled. I thought it couldn't be, because catsup never spoils.

I was wrong, of course, the catsup had fermented and was bubbling. It was sour and nasty, clearly spoiled. After that we kept catsup bottles in the cooler and I required the staff to be SURE that all bottles were emptied, washed and then refilled regularly.

In searching for information on refrigeration of catsup, I found this:

"Unopened bottles of ketchup may be stored up to one year in a cool, dry place. Once opened, you may store it in a cool environment, away from sun and/or heat, for about 1 month. For longer shelf life after opening, refrigeration is recommended. Refer to expiration dates on the container.

Storing opened ketchup in a heated environment such as in direct sunlight or in a kitchen that is constantly hot can invite fermentation which can actually cause a minor explosion when opening the container. The explosion makes the ketchup squirt out when opened which probably won't be harmful to you, but it will make quite a mess and stain your clothing. Discard any ketchup that shows signs of fermentation."

So how long was that bottle of catsup sitting on a table or in the kitchen of the bar? I dunno, but it definitely will ferment given enough time and warm temperatures. I'm only assuming that homemade catsup will ferment even more quickly, given the fact that there are no added preservatives.

Annie

Thanks, Ken... I was successful today. Can't wait to get the tomato powder and the also the vinegar powder from that other link.

I guess it may have been a computer problem with Bulk Foods. I never see any issues there.

As to home made ketchup spoiling, I suppose it could spoil if its left open and exposed to air for long periods of time. Some people don't bother putting the cap back on. Mine is made with a higher amount of vinegar, and I also use Splenda for the sugar. In all my years I have not seen any bad ketchup home canned or store bought. Many fast food resturants use either a hand pump and little paper cups, or plastic packets. For the true ketchup lover these are just a tease.

Actually, Ken, I don't think it was the exposure to air, I think it was the exposure to heat. Our kitchen was not air conditioned, although the dining room was. As noted above, the stuff will cause a minor explosion when the lid is removed, if it has fermented sufficiently.

Annie

> As noted above, the stuff will cause a minor explosion when the lid is removed, if it has fermented sufficiently.

Shouldn't be at all harmful though. Right? Just a build up of carbon dioxide gas.

pickler, I don't know about harmful, but I know it tasted TERRIBLE, so there would be no possibility of me eating it anyway. My gut feeling tells me that if it's spoiled and it doesn't taste good, I should throw it away.

Annie

I agree it could sour and not like what vinegar could do by itself. Heat would definately shorten its room temp life.

Here, I just got central air installed in my new furnace last year. I have forced air heat and needed a new furnace as my old one blew up after a burner service was done and the guy destroyed the igniter. It was in the dead of winter and I was down there for two days readjusing the ignitor and trying to get it to work again reliably. After a couple of blow ups, it started to smell like burning oil upstairs, so it was shut off and I was living with an electric heater all that winter. Cost me almost $13,000 for a new furnace and AC. I could have not bothered with AC, but to lift an 10,000 BTU into a window isn't something I can do anymore. Now, with AC the electric bills have dropped more than $30 a month and I only go through a single tank of oil all winter. Got the money for it by doing a reverse mortgage on the house.

If I could return to the original issue, I've made ketchup for many many years and it's never separated. Maybe there's a canning recipe where separation is an issue, but I've never run across one.

Has the original poster had a problem with ketchup that separates or is it a concern before-the-fact? From my perspective, the whole Clearjel issue is a solution to a non-problem.

I suppose like too-thick applesauce it's possible a ketchup would separate but then the simplest solution is to stir the contents when you open the jar.

Carol