The brine only 5c vinegar to 20c water.

That is the part that would be my big concern. You can process your jars if they are less than 24 hours old but I don't think it is, right? But that ratio of vinegar to water wouldn't be considered safe for shelf storage anyway. So just keep them in the fridge.

With that low amount of vinegar they aren't going to be "technically" considered safe past 3 weeks as that is when listeria can reach toxic levels. Your choice as to whether to keep them longer or not.

Dave

Thanks Dave.

Well, the brine also had 1.5c canning salt in it. But I don't know if that *counts* when it comes to bacteria like listeria, or if it's just the vinegar/h2o ratio? I wonder why his is so low? All the recipes I've seen today are at least 1:3 ratio and his is 1:4.

It's been 21 hours, but if I understand you correctly, if I were to process in the next 3 hours, they would need to be refrigerator pickles anyways? But could be stored longer than 3 weeks? Will they even taste pickly in 2-3 weeks?

So crazy...I ate like 5 of his pickles yesterday while working and the lid said 9/09! YIKES!! ;-)

It sure was fun...I'm excited to do it safely next time!

The ratio of vinegar to water is probably low because it's an old recipe and people used to use much stronger vinegars - 10%, even 15% acidity compared to today's 5%.

The pH of the pickles probably goes up (less acid) as they sit on the shelf as juices from the cukes leach out and further weaken the brine strength.

The salt isn't an issue one way or the other re. safety as this isn't a fermented pickle. Fermented pickles create their own acid during the fermentation process and the level of salt is those recipes is critical to safe and successful fermentation.

The degree of risk? I have no idea. Lower than some things, higher than others. Listeria seldom is fatal, but I doubt that's much comfort.

It's a matter of the odds. In most cases people consume these sorts of things for years and years without an issue but then there's that "off-year" when people get sick.

I doubt he'll change what he's doing. You have to decide for yourself how you feel about keeping them.

Carol

Like Carol said the salt isn't relevant. It is the ratio of vinegar to water. Except for a few tested and approved recipes the minimum recommendation is 1:1 and no less - no less than 50% vinegar in other words.

As he said he has been making them this way for 40 years but he probably has never given any thought to the acidity level of vinegar 40 years ago, even 20 years vs. todays 5%.

I wouldn't, but if you want to save them then an unapproved method would be to dump them all back into a pot and reheat to boiling. Meanwhile ADD 1/4 tsp. citric acid to each pint or 1/2 tsp. citric acid to each quart. Refill clean jars and use new lids and process pints 10 min., quarts 15 min. in a BWB. They would still be low on the acid scale but much better than they are now and the citric acid will remain stable.

You could do it with vinegar but you'd have no way of knowing how much would need to be added and the flavor would likely be far to vinegary.

Dave

I would dump them. The brine is way to weak to be safe. Within 2 days you can have enough bacteria, including possible botulism, to kill or paralyze you.
Vinegar was as much as 40 % acidity years ago. Not just the 10 or 15 Carol said.To be safe a brine must be at least half 5 % acidity vinegar to water ratio. You have way below that.
Salt is only for flavor, not for safety.
Adding the citric acid will still not insure they are safe.

I'm convinced! They are going in the trash. :-( Not worth it. I will go buy a canner and some new pickling cukes. I had my heart so set on pickles that now I must have some!

I know that it was common to use stronger vinegars, certainly up to 20%. In fact, commercial processors do use 20% because it compensates for weakening of the brine by the cucumbers and costs less to transport. But I'd be interested in a specific citation showing that 40% vinegar was used in food. What is the source of that information?

When you get to that strength you'd have to be talking agricultural uses like weed killer. Handling it could be hazardous. Even then, I can't find a single reference to 400-grain or 40% vinegar.

Carol

My wife brought home a small bottle of vinegar from Siberia (Russia), said that's what they use for everything back there. Our vinegar is like water by comparison - that stuff can remove paint. Worked better than Compound-W for removing warts. Still can't get my wife to use the correct quantities of our vinegar in recipes, though, so everything she makes goes in the refrigerator.