No, the use of such items has not been regarded as safe for several years.

Some still use them but I think 1994 was when such items were removed from the approved list, maybe even before that.

Dave

Here is a link that might be useful: NCHFP - Equipment and Methods NOT Recommended

Linda,I have never tried them before last week..we ran out of pint jars while doing a batch of Annies salsa, my wife suggested using a couple 16oz pickle jars we save for our 14 day pickle give aways... They sealed perfect(BHWB), I have been checking them, and they are still sealed!...It will be interesting on other answers on this topic. Sure would save a little money??

I wouldn't use them, but if you really want to I'd limit it to high-acid boiling water bath. You're re-using a lid designed for single use so there's always a risk of seal failure over time. Since brands and lids vary there's no way to know the frequency.

Nor is there any way to know how different lids vent or the vacuum that's formed. In other words, the lid may seal, but that's not an indicator that all is well with the product inside the jar.

Jam I'm not worried about. Green beans would really concern me.

Carol

They are not recommended for home canning. They are considered "one trip" jars and meant to be recycled or thrown away.
The glass is thinner than a canning jar. The sealing surface is more rounded, so you don't get as strong of a seal,plus reusing lids is not recommended.

I know they are not recommended for re-use -but- I have occasionally used them with pretty good results. I have had the occasional (10% +/-) lid failure. I only use them in pressure canner not in HWB canning.

I found a source for one piece lids and I like them much better than the band type 2pc lids. I have not ordered this year but they were pretty good to deal with last time.

DL

Here is a link that might be useful: Fancy canning jars

VERY dangerous to reuse jars with same lids. Amish can get away with it, maybe, but with todays packaging, the lids and seals are not reliable. The glass is also not designed to take the high heat of canning.. A microscopic nick in the lids inner coating can cause instant rust. Jars also shatter easily

Using them with pressure canning is far higher risk than with boiling water bath.

This kind of thing is a false economy.

Carol

I know they may not have direct access to it, so is it possible that your Amish neighbors might really appreciate it if you would print out the current guidelines on canning from NCHFP and give it to them? Just a thought.

Dave

oh, my goodness, did you read the disclaimer posted on the link provided above for "Fancy Canning Jars"?

"As always you should test your product with the packaging to ensure product compatibility. We do not imply these products are fit for food products, or for any particular use"

they're selling a jar for every imaginable food ... but they do not claim the jars are fit for food ....
kay

Yeah, I saw that too. dancinglemons may prefer those jars and one piece caps but they sure aren't considered safe. Her choice I guess but I strongly discourage her from recommending them to others.

Dave

I only give information -but- I don't recommend. I must say that the local orchards around here use these jars for their apple butter. The apple butter is sold in grocery stores and approved by the state.

I should have posted that I use a professional cannery here in Hanover, Virginia which has the equipment to can in jars and in cans. I got info on this jar company from a local orchard a few years ago. I should have put that in my post. This is not a stove top pressure canner -- it is a huge machine like those used in factories. The company I posted about is required by law to put that disclaimer. Similar disclaimers are provided by the makers of home canning jars if you ask for a guarantee -- they will give you similar language because they can not 'guarantee' that what we do in our home kitchens will be correct procedure to keep us from getting sick. Same with the places that sell jars by the truck load to factories.

I do not ever intend to mislead anyone only to post about my experiences.

I'm glad to hear you are using commercial canners. They can't help but make your product and the use of those jars safer for you and your family. ;) Unfortunately, commercial equipment isn't available to most of us.

I assume state laws vary on the sale of locally made products as here, the use of the 2 piece bands and lids is required.

Dave

Reliable one piece lids.

Here is a link that might be useful: Kitchen Krafts one piece covers.

Thanks everyone for the help. Digdirt, I may try to pass on the information you mentioned. I expect that as long as these women have been using the lug lids for canning without problems they won't heed the warning of the potential danger. I stopped by a couple of Amish farm stands yesterday looking for more hot peppers to can. The women typically have a little selection of canned relishes or jams for sale and I noticed some recycled lids. I started a conversation with one of them about the lids. She told they were safe and demonstrated by tapping her finger on top the jars how she checks the seal. They are convinced that if the jar appears sealed all is well.
Such is life among the Swartzentrubers. Anyway, thanks and as usual I have learned a lot from the fine people at the garden web! LindaRenee

Dancinglemons, interesting to hear that you use the cannery in Hanover. I've seen that online before and wondered about it. They let you use lug tops there?

I live in Richmond and buy most of what I can at Pole Green Produce in Hanover County.

Odd that there's a commercial-style cannery in the metro area, but the nearest extension that will test a pressure canner gauge is in King and Queen County, hours away. I made a decent afternoon of getting my gauge tested by finding some produce stands along the way (thanks to pickyourown.org), but I think I am going to buy the weights from Presto and be done with it.

Melissa

melva02,

I have used one piece canning jar lids at the Hanover cannery. The lids I use look exactly like home canning bad/lid --except-- they are one piece and the gasket/sealer is on the inside of the lid. The lids have a 'pop top' that makes the same 'ping' when it goes down. When I go to the cannery I usually do not see anyone else using jars of any sort. This is not to say that other folks do not do it. I usually go in the fall and the days I go there are only 1-2 other people there and that is how I like it. I can have only my things inside the pressure canner and if one or two of my jars crack - no problem.

You should try the Hanover cannery. It is a fantastic place to can. I love being able to 'hose' everything down when I am finished!! Floor, walls, tables and sinks!! Big HUGE pots to stir my relish and other goodies before jarring. Huge sinks to wash bushels of produce. No worries about kitchen floors or walls or stove tops. I love this place!!

DL

Are they open in the middle of the night? That seems to be when I do most of my canning. :-)

This year I have gone in cycles where I finish canning all the stuff I've bought to can, and then the next day I compulsively go buy more stuff. It's like I'm purposely putting all this pressure on myself and then I stay up late getting the canning done.

Maybe I'll think about going to the cannery next year and doing a big day of canning. I don't think I would make one giant batch though...I like having four slightly different versions of Annie's salsa in case I want a hotter version for certain occasions or something.

I see the cannery is legal as a commercial kitchen for people to use to run a food business. That's really cool, what a great service. Odd that they say the average stay is about 5 hours, but some days they're only open 4 1/2 hours. I guess you have to get there right when they open to do the whole bushel they require!

Here is a link that might be useful: Hanover County cannery

Jar breakage can go up if reusing commercially canned product jars. The tight Amish communities lack the outside knowledge and I would expect that they don't bother with any government guidelines.

Unless you dont have a weighted gauge on the PC, don't expect the dial gauge to be accurate. Heat, steam, and many other factors can throw them off even if just tested. The dials are meant ONLY for reference to see if there is pressure inside. Most canners today may offer both, but the weighted type is a 1000% more accurate.

Do you know where I can find the exact measurement of the wide mouth jar lid. I want to order wooden covers .

Are you asking about the wide mouth jars from Ball? If so, you can easily measure the lids by getting a box of them, or from a jar that has one attached. Why wooden covers?? Ball does sell a plastic screw on cover, but they are not leak tight and require the metal lid to be applied first. If made of wood, they would also need the thread type, if they are to be screwed on.

Hmmm, never heard of using wooden covers??? Decorative only I assume? Also some of them will vary - some are metric and some aren't.

Dave

Wide-mouth lids are 86mm.

Carol

I'm reading about state laws and what is safe and unsafe. It's sad how far we've fallen as a culture. Anyone of you know that Scandinavians, Asians, South Americans, Africans, Australians and European peoples used to just bury food in the ground to set off fermentation? We've lost our ability as a people to do for ourselves anymore and put our trust into people who have no real idea what they're talking about. And as a result, we cook less, rely on companies more.

I make pickles out of old pickle jars, simple to test. If it smells bad or looks bad, it's probably bad. If it's suspect, throw it away.

That can be true IF one assumes that all pathological bacteria and fungi have an odor, a smell, or that they are visible. Since we all know that assumption isn't valid well-informed food preservers prefer to rely on additional criteria.

With pickled products, but ONLY with pickled products, assuming one uses enough vinegar of the proper acidic dilution in the brine, the risk may be minimal. Sadly there are many pickling recipes in the world that do NOT contain sufficient vinegar for long term safety. If pH remained stable the risk would also be minimal. But it doesn't, it rises over time. So again why resort to burying ones food when it is so easy to prepare it with guaranteed safely?

Civilization brings about many changes. So does science. Some good, some bad. The secret is to learn to tell which is which rather than just writing them off because they differ from our personal opinion.

Dave

My question is, if theses lids aren't safe. How are they actually safe during processing in the factory. It sounds like a catch 22 to me. That means almost everything in my pantry was canned with a very high risk to the people handling them. Wonder what there breakage and seal failed rate is.

Wow, necrothread that just won't die, lol.

The lids are safe- since they are used as intended from the factory. It's re-using them that can be questionable.... just like trying to re-use home canning lids can also result in unsafe sealing and a higher rate of failure than just using them once as intended.

Using recycled jars for canning...

I have been using recycled glass jars and their lids for several years, at least 10. I am from Western Pennsylvania and I routinely visit our recycling center getting regular canning jars but also pickle jars, salsa jars and whatever jar that I think would be good and convenient for my canning needs. As long as the jars are fully sound, ie, not cracked or chipped and their lids are also in like-new condition, I use them repeatedly with NO undesirable results...with one caveat...I don't use nut butter lids for canning as they are not coated with plastisol or other canner lid sealer. I routinely pressure can as well as hot water bath can. A side benefit from using free recycled jars is that I frequently give my canned products away and never worry about getting a jar in return. New, replacement lug lids are readily available on line, via Amazon, Berlin Packaging, Nakpunar and many other places...just do a search for lug lids. Each lid is measured at the top of each jar, ie, 82mm, 70 mm, etc. Two types of lids...one with the vacuum button and one without the button...either one is good and I have no problem using either type...but I only get the lids that have that acid resistant sealant on the underneath of each lid, called plastisole or something like that. In use, the lug lids require a bit more muscle tightening (not much more) and should be in a warm to hot water bath prior to actual use.

About using recycle jars and lids...I remove any label on each jar and any of the adhesive from any label. This is a process in its own, but I have mastered it. Then, I BLEACH wash in hot water, wearing rubber gloves, all the jars and lids. After fully dried, the jars and lids are closed boxed, taped shut and labeled as to what is inside and stored away until needed. Some jars use water-soluble adhesive for their labels while other do not. The water soluble labels/adhesive is easy to remove, while all the other adhesives are not as easy and require special solvents to remove the adhesives...I use gasoline, outside in open air, using rubber gloves on the jars after scrapping off the labels as best that I can. This is really no big deal, but I am sure others would not like this methodology. I leave the jars to sit in the sun until 'dried' and then they get bleach washed, as described.