You're OK using tomato recipes with acidification. There's enough leeway to cover the lower pH. It's another benefit of following the current standard. The problem arises with those who continue to can the "old way" without citric acid or lemon juice.

Here's what Penn State Extension has to say:

"Although the USDA Guide recommends using only vine-ripened fruit for canning, tomatoes that have been picked green and allowed to ripen indoors may be canned if they show no symptoms of late blight.

Tomatoes that are damaged by frost are also not recommended for canning because the softened tissue may be quickly invaded by fungus. If the canner insists on recovering a frost damaged crop, the fruit should be picked the morning after the frost and processed that day."

It's not optimal; but it is an acceptable way to salvage the last of the crop.

I don't like to can the late tomatoes because to my taste they're either bland due to insufficient exposure to natural light or there are off-flavors. But that's a personal preference; there's no safety issue in using those tomatoes.

Carol

Here is a link that might be useful: Penn State on Canning Blighted Tomatoes

Perhaps I am not understanding your question correctly as I know of no reason why you cannot can tomatoes ripened inside or on the counter. It is done all the time. As long as they are not extremely over-ripe there is no unusual pH concern and if slightly green, their pH is even more acidic than normal.

Be sure to add the required bottled lemon juice or citric acid.

Dave

Thanks for your answers. So, to clarify: I can use these tomatoes as long as the vines weren't dead when I picked them, and they aren't showing any signs of decay??

A seperate question - is it safe to use tomatoes which got a bit overipe - squishy soft - on one side, and I cut off the 'bad' part, and use the rest (I check the smell and flavor and it's ok...)

Dave, I began worrying because of posts on this forum about the potentially unsafe ph of table-ripened tomatoes. I'm glad to hear this is one worry I can ditch (for now), since I do follow all current acidification guidelines.

As for the flavor - I've found the flavor to be bland, as well, but here in the coastal pacific northwest, while I can do many things to keep off the rain and bring up the temperature (hot houses, hoop houses, partial sheds, etc.), but so far, I have not found a way to make the sun shine on more days in order to sweeten the crop! So, I make do, and find that with proper seasoning and cooking times, the finished product is still better than store bought. ANy suggestions, anyone?? Thanks again!

the potentially unsafe ph of table-ripened tomatoes

Carla - I'd be interested in reading those posts and reviewing the reasons given. Do you recall the name of them, the search term you used, or have a link perhaps? Search doesn't pull up anything relevant for me.

Some of the misunderstanding comes from the term used - "vine ripened". It doesn't actually mean ripened to the fully red stage on the vine. As we have discussed here before, once the fruit shows the first blush of color on the blossom end it has received everything it is going to get from the plant. A membrane form where the base of the stem meets the fruit and that tomato is now on its own. ;) Many pick their fruit at that stage for counter ripening to avoid the damages of pests, disease, and weather.

And as you rightly pointed out, many who buy their fruit from commercial or local growers, are buying fruit that is not yet fully ripened. So, many of us are regularly canning counter-ripened fruit.

USDA guidelines prefer that any that shows signs of disease or damage not be used, but again small damaged (bruised, pest, etc.) are easily removed so yes, you can cut off the bad part and use the rest. Your choice. ;)

Dave

Sorry. I should have said "higher pH", not lower.

There has been some discussion of not canning tomatoes ripened on the back porch, etc. and I do have some information in my files. If I get time later I will look it up. I seem to remember there's some counter-intuitive science on the pH in those.

Some Extension services do not recommend canning late-season tomatoes and specifically include tomatoes ripened indoors in that prohibition, so Carla's memory is correct. It appears there is disagreement on the issue.

But, Penn State's Food Safety center is highly reliable, and if they say it's OK, I accept that.

On the other hand, I would not can overripe tomatoes, even after cutting out the bruised parts. That does present known safety issues. The bruising and overripeness do raise pH beyond the safe margin. Additionally, there can be decay/mold in those areas internally and because tomatoes are soft tissue, it can exist far beyond the visible area of softness. Canning overripe tomatoes is not recommended and I haven't seen any disagreement on that one.

Carol

Usually its not advisable to use any partially bad tomatoes. Cutting away the bad area cant always be done. Bad areas can start at the surface and go inside. The liquid inside can carry the bad components to otherwise good 'appearing' areas.

I am not disputing the guidelines but let's face it, in real life plenty of tomatoes with bad areas cut out get home canned routinely and quite safely. If one ate or canned only the few "perfect" fruits we get each year there would be very little tomato eating and canning going on. ;) Gardens just don't deliver that way.

While I certainly don't advocate canning entire batches of nothing but over-ripe (and counter ripe isn't the same as over-ripe) or pest or weather damaged fruit, incorporating some over-ripe or damaged fruit, with its damaged parts removed, into an otherwise healthy batch is quite safe IF proper acidification and processing rules are followed.

Stink bug damage is very superficial and easily removed as is most weather damage, sun-scald, bump bruises, cracks, scars, etc. and the rest of the fruit is fine to consume.

We have several large brand name processing plants around here and most of what goes into commercially canned tomatoes is the market culls and they are far more damaged by the machinery than anything you might get from your home garden. That is one reason why we won't buy canned tomatoes as millions do. Course we are also the home of Tyson Chicken processing and we don't eat chicken either. ;)

So, all I am saying is that with care and consideration, there is nothing wrong with giving the USDA guidelines a somewhat less-than-literal interpretation.

Dave

I think we'll have to differ on this one and the OP can decide what she's comfortable with.

Personally I don't have a problem with cutting out natural scarring, sun-scald, that sort of superficial damage. But over-ripe and bruised falls into a different category for me. I don't know where the line is on how many of those it would take in a batch to raise the pH but it could certainly happen. For my taste, overripe tomatoes can also taint a batch.

Of course, here in the PNW, overripe tomatoes aren't usually the problem, LOL. It's the bland underripe ones we normally are dealing with.

But again, all we can do is share the info and people work out for themselves how they integrate it into their canning practices.

Carol

As long as the tomatoes were not from dead or frostbitten vines they are OK to can. It says "preferably vine ripened". I asked Elizabeth Andress about it, and that is her response.
I would not cut out bad parts and use the rest, unless, as Carol said, it was just some scarring.

Been canning for over 30 yrs, have learned from women and men who have been canning and on and on. Too soften tomatoes or over ripe we have always slow cooked into a thick sauce with seasoning and froze upto 3 months or canned. Tabled ripen or vine ripen has always worked for us. Don't know anything about pH but we use vinegar with ours. We do use the recommendations that are in our cookbooks for salt, vinegar and how long to water bath. Unless the families are hiding it from us NO ONE has gotten sick or died--yet. There's quite a few generations there. Like they say "There's always a 1st". And if you can you use your nose and ALWAY'S smell before you taste.

You'll never smell botulism.

Carol

Vinegar would need quite a lot to 'acidify' the tomato sauce, plus adding an unwanted taste. Today, its much safer to use either granulated citric acid, or bottled lemon or lime juice. Both, when properly measured into a sauce will bring acidity to a safe canning level.

Are you just trying to tempt fate with a unsafe recipe? No one has died or gotten sick here either, but that slightest doubt can become no doubt if the current methods for canning tomaoes is followed. As mentioned, Botulism has no odor, color, or taste, but its still deadly however. An hour after eating something with Botulism, severe nausia will occur and then quickly spread into the blood stream. You don't read about many cases, as they tend to group them into a general catagory called 'food poisoning'. People have died from ingesting foods that are unsafely home canned and contain botulism. Commercially made canned products use all kinds of methods to pevent contamination, as chemicals, extreme heat, remova of any trace of air, etc. Several years ago, commercially canned mushhrooms were tainted and had to be pulled off store shelves, after several deaths.

Thanks everyone. Dave - I'm sorry, I don't remember the link or search words. I wasn't searching for counter or table-ripened tomatoes at the time - I just bumped into the information in someone's post (and I do believe it was Carol's) - as happens quite often to me! I learn a lot here on the forum by 'accident.'

I wish I'd known that about the blossom end showing a blush, and then never getting any mroe nutrients from the plant - does this include water? Living in the PacNW, bland tomatoes are the norm, but this is the first year I tried a big hoop house (10 X 16 feet) and was...astonished... by how many toms I got. However, they were not as tasty as they could be. I assumed it was either water (so I cut back) or not enough sunny days (left them on the vine until the last minute to eke out a few more precious UV days). Maybe next year I'll forgo the extra vine-ripening time and just pick them as soon as they look like they're beginning to be ready!

Carlabee,
Fertilzer isn't mentioned, but I bet they would have loved some. Don't use chemical ones like Miracle Grow as it can give tomatoes an odd taste. I usually add tomato fertilizer offered by Gardens Alive. Its given me many very good tasting toms on the past. Leave them on them on the plants until ripe. If picked too soon they will have that bland 'store bought' taste, whith greenish color seeds inside. Also, you may want to consider starting your tomato plants earlier if they are not as ripe as they should be. Here, in Z6 I start mine in mid April. By June they are flowering and are planted in the garden after about a week of 'hardening off' in my small greenhouse.