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vanmom2two

Need design advice

18 years ago

Hi,

I need some design advice. I have a standard Vancouver, BC backyard (long and skinny) with a shed in one corner. There are established evergreen trees at the end of the yard (which provide great privacy from the neighbour behind), and established fig trees and a grape vine along the side fence. These pictures are taken in early spring before the fig trees and grape vine have dominated the fence.

I want to take out all of the grass and make the whole backyard plants, with a curved path to the back gate and a small sitting area for having a coffee etc. I was reading about the newspaper method for smothering the grass, so am thinking I will do that. Or is there an easier way?

Any suggestions for plants? I would like to have a cottage garden, but also low maintenance. I love butterly bush, sages, cornflowers etc. Although I had those growing last summer in my raised bed and it was hornet city. Not so into the hornets. Would only want roses if they are bug free varieties.

The yard is full sun, as the house is south facing. The portion that is shaded by the house is a deck.

There is really bad drainage in the area in front of the shed, so I'm assuming that would be the best place for the sitting area. It is like a swamp for the rainy parts of the year.

Here are a couple of pictures. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Looking from the deck to the west side of the backyard:

Looking straight back from the deck (the shed is on the left)

Comments (13)

  • 18 years ago

    A couple of thoughts......cottage style gardens are NOT low maintenance or if allowed to be low maintenance, generally result in an exceedingly untidy, unkempt appearance. You might want to do some research into a mixed border style of planting, which I consider to be a modified cottage garden - more of a focus on structural or evergreen plantings and less on self-seeding and herbaceous plants. Living in Vancouver BC, there is a nearly endless choice of plants to select from, including many 'evergreen' perennials. Plants that tend to be low maintenance are often those that are evergreen, disease and pest resistant, have restrained growth habits (no excessive suckering, seeding or rampant growth), drought tolerant once established and require minimal pruning, deadheading or dividing.

    Using newspaper or cardboard to smother the lawn is quite effective but takes time. If you want to plant this season, removing the sod first may be most efficient. Building up the area that now has poor drainage may be an option to increase its functionality.

    Unlike bees, hornets, yellowjackets and other wasps tend to feed primarily on insects although they can seek out nectar and sap late in the season. IME, it is bees that are most attracted to plants like butterfly bush and salvias (both of which they adore), so locating those away from seating areas may be a good idea.

  • 18 years ago

    Thanks so much gardengal. Great advice.

    I love your suggestion of the mixed border style of planting.

    So, removing the sod is faster. Good to know. I guess you just have to make sure you get all of the grass out, and then cover with a mixture of topsoil and manure?

    Of course I'm sure you know what my next question will be. Can you suggest some plants with characteristics like those you mentioned?

    Thanks so much,
    Jen

  • 18 years ago

    There's also a landscape design forum here where some posts get lots of comments.

  • 18 years ago

    You could strip the grass out, then lay it upside-down on top of the soil... then it ends up as compost. :) I wouldn't do the newspaper thing in a yard that size though, that would take 3 years of the Vancouver Sun!

  • 18 years ago

    There are some drawbacks with that method.......you can't plant directly into the overturned sod, so you still need to import soil and you will end up with raised planting areas initially. And IME, grass roots are determinedly persistant so there is a good possibility that the new sod-based planting beds will rapidly become grass-infested. You could try each of the methods in smaller areas - it IS a lot of square footage to do all at once and a big plant expense as well - and see which works best for your needs. It might make sense to develop a master plan for the area and take it step by step - layout, put in hardscaping, develop planting beds (over time) and a planting plan. You can work on various areas as defined by your paths or seating areas as time, priorities and budget allows.

    Do you subscribe to Gardens West or can you locate at newstands? This is a Canadian publication that focuses on west coast gardens and always seems to have a ton of rather inspirational garden photos, many of which are in the "mixed border" style. Perhaps these could provide additional ideas for you to consider to turn your backyard into a garden sanctuary.

    If you send me an email directly (see My Page), I can send you a handout and plant list on low maintenance gardening that will include lots of plants with those characteristics.

  • 18 years ago

    I'm going against the grain here with this suggestion.
    An easy quick way to get rid of the grass is to spray it with Round Up or glysophate. I have a large area I will be spraying on Sunday if it's close to 60 and no rain for the day. Spraying on dew is OK. I've done this for a couple of years. A couple weeks after application I will start planting in that area. I dig through the dead sod where I want a plant, and cover the rest of the area with bark mulch. Everytime I add a new plant I've got lots of worms. I don't use synthetic fertilizers or other chemical sprays but I do use Roundup once to make big planting areas.

  • 18 years ago

    Hi there,

    I'm in Vancouver also, so I know exactly what kind of yard you're dealing with! :-) I've also got grand plans for my garden and would someday love my own backyard jungle.

    But I quickly realized it's not going to be an all at once proposition -- especially not with a two-year old son! Last year, our first summer in this house, I focused on cleaning up what I had, taking stock of what could stay/go, etc. I enlarged a couple of existing beds and added a LOT of new perennials and shrubs. I've barely made a dent!

    Are you fairly new to gardening? If so, I would strongly discourage you from getting rid of all your grass at once. It's a HUGE proposition, not to mention expense, to undertake clearing and planting such a huge area all at once. And if you can't plant all at once, you have to deal with weed issues or staring at large areas of dirt/mulch for a long time. Establishing a new garden is a LOT of work, even with "low maintenance" plants.

    After last year's reality check, we've changed our approach. We're developing a long-term plan for our garden and are tackling one or two projects a year. This year, we will reface our front stairs, add a few small raised beds for veggies, and, if we still have time and energy, begin layout and prep for a new bed at one corner of our property.

    Meanwhile, I have to keep cutting the grass! And planning, and plotting how I can slowly replace it with my dream jungle. :-)

  • 18 years ago

    Thanks so much everyone. Great feedback!

    I agree kailleanm, and have decided to do a phased approach. I'm going to do about 1/4 of the main area this year. Since it is a smaller area, and is actually a bit sunken below the garage foundation level, I'm going to try the lasagna method (newspapers).

    I hear you on the kid issue. I have two little ones!

    And thanks gardengal. I'll definately send you an email for that plant list.

  • 18 years ago

    Did you know that you can order compost from the city? You can either pick up small loads at the landfill, or if you want a lot, they will deliver it.

    My neighbours and I are sharing an 11 cubic metre load - cost will be around $215, including delivery.

  • 18 years ago

    Wow, I didn't know that. Will definately do that.

    This is probably a stupid question, but can you plant right in compost, or does it have to be mixed with native soil? Could I just put a load of compost on top of the newspapers and then plant in that (after 60 days)?

  • 18 years ago

    I think so. I'm not a pro by any means. I don't see any reason why you'd have to wait 60 days as long as the depth of compost is such the plants have enough for their roots. The only problem is that compost will shrink in volume a lot so you will have to replenish. You may want to mix the compost with soil or another medium to offset this.

    There is a company called Artisan Landscaping that delivers small loads of soil, mulches, etc. for a reasonable price. Otherwise, you may have to pick up your own from a garden centre.

    Also note that you can get one free cubic metre of compost per household each May from the city.

    Where in Vancouver (generally) are you? We're in Renfrew Heights. It's always good to make the acquaintance of fellow local gardeners - never know when you might want to do a plant swap! :-)

  • 18 years ago

    kailleanm, I live in the Douglas Park area of Vancouver.

    Thanks for the tip about the compost. I also received a flyer from UBC. They have a manure sale and deliver manure for $5/40 lb bag.

    I think I'm going to go for the Roundup method, and put compost on top. With work and two young kids, I'm going to use chemicals just this once per area, like muddydogs. It will just be so much faster. I think I'm too impatient to wait for those newspapers to decompose!

  • 18 years ago

    Ok, the project is in motion.

    If you refer to my 2nd picture (in the first post of this discussion), I have now done the section between the horizontal path and the evergreens, and the section to the right of the main path leading to the back gate.

    I have covered the areas with six layers of newspaper, wet it, and then loaded four inches of garden mix topsoil on top. It is a mix of 30% compost, 30% organic matter, some peat moss, sand etc.

    This seemed like the best move for me, as I don't have any of the items listed for making a real lasagna bed.

    I am also going to make a park bench spot in the remaining area (of picture 2), and make a new garden bed surrounding it using the same method.

    I am so excited to plant. I know I should wait, but I've been reading tons of posts around the net, and it sounds like it is ok to plant right away. Even shrubs, as the roots begin by spreading outwards, rather than down. I'm assuming that by the time my plant roots get to the newspaper, they will be able to go through? I'm also assuming that I can plant sooner as I've used actual garden soil and don't need to wait for organic items to decompose. Any comments on this would be greatly appreciated.

    I am worried about drainage. If I make gentle hills covered in mulch, will they stay put during the tons of rain we get here in Vancouver? Or will all my soil wash away? I'd like to avoid edging the beds with timber etc, as I wanted a very natural look.

    Thanks so much in advance for your comments!