Good luck on your search.

I've got one clematis that is planted in almost full shade -just gets a bit of sun in the morning. And it is too rampant for the space it's in. Of course, I can't remember the name, but there is one out there for you.

You might try www.gardenvines.com
They have lots of good info.

Daphne in Tacoma

Here is a link that might be useful: gardenvines.com

No, no, no, Daphne, you're NOT getting way with that. If you have a clematis thats rampant in deep shade I MUST know what it is. Can you take a picture? When does it bloom? What color are the flowers? Are there tree roots?

Please?

Meanwhile I'll check out your link, but I'll betcha I've already been there.

Your subject heading is appropriate - this vine may indeed be nonexistent :-)

I'm not aware of many clematis that will tolerate deep shade. Many can be grown in partial shade, but it is still in their nature to climb to the sun and with a very vigorous selection like SAC, that is exactly what will happen. Even C. armandii, which is suggested for shade, will strive for sunlight if it can get it . And of course how much sun is available will reflect on growth and flowering as well.

The other concern for a clematis is that they need an extremely generous planting hole for best success, richly organic soil and an even source of moisture. How that can be achieved in competition with an aggressive root system of an oak is a bit if a quandry. The NW native clematis, C. vitalba, may be your best bet for competing with tree roots and for shade, but it is considered to be almost as aggressive an invader as English ivy and I'm sure appears on Oregon's noxious weed listing, as it does here in Washington.

I'd consider either Akebia or Schisandra (Magnolia vine) before I'd attempt a clematis. And while there is wide application in the use of common names, virgin's bowers is typically used in reference to Clematis virginiana, an eastern native, not SAC.

And as a nursery buyer, I'd love to give you my opinion on the perils and difficulties of "special orders" but that may be a discussion best left offline :-)

I have a clematis growing over an arbor in deep shade -- but it isn't exactly "rampant"! I planted it in a large pot where it gets watered from the irrigation system. The one I planted is the wrong colour -- it is a red and of course it doesn't show up in deep shade. I wish it were white. Could you incorporate a big pot?

OK, Miss Lemon Verbena, you forced me to look up my clematis, which I have been meaning to do, anyway. Pale pink, small flowers, early blooming, and shade, 20-30 feet....must be a c. Montana, probably Reubens.

I didn't believe it would do as well as it has. It's planted at the base of a hydrangea, very near a holly tree and shaded by a large, old pear tree. It bloomed very well this spring. Earlier than I expected, as I want to move it to the north side of my house where I can train it up and over the front door.

If anyone can give me advice about moving a clematis, I would really appreciate it.

By the way, if you don't prune a clematis, the vine tends to get leggy and create a big tangle at the top, but that's what you want, right? So you might consider not pruning it one year, and see what happens.

I have another one, a dark purple c. Viticella that is growing on the west side of a solid fence, and grows up into the apple tree above. Gets very little sun. Blooms late and long, and gets COVERED in blooms.

Daphne

If you want a clematis then try it. If it dies then you can try something else. Clematis are a lot tougher than most people think. I have a lot of them growing in difficult spots and they do quite well once established. I have quite a few in north exposures growing in front of an arborvitae hedge. The hedge has very dense roots which soak up all the moisture. I planted quite a few in 5 gallon buckets with the bottoms removed in the soil. I planted the vine in the bucket to keep the clematis roots away from the cedar roots and they are doing well. I thought oak trees had deep roots. If so they shouldn't compete with the clematis roots. If you can't find a Montana or SAC, Polish spirit and a yellow tangutica would be a nice combination. They both get large and can grow in north exposures and are very commom at the nurseries. They are starting to bloom now so they should be available. If you don't need flowers then golden hops would grow there. It can compete with dense tree roots and get large quickly an has beautiful golden leaves and cute fruits. It can be invasive though so beware, it runs.

Dotty , you know the large pot idea may be a good thing. That way if the vine doesn't do well in shade I can always dig it up & move it without harming tree roots. That would solve the soil problem.

But before I give up on putting something in the ground, what about Silver Lace Vine...Polygonum aubertii? I've seen that take quite a bit of shade. I know it takes poor soil. Ands it's fast! I never see it planted around here.

Daphne thank you so much for looking up your clematis for me. I'm surprised the montana would take so much shade. And I've been wanting one of those vitacellas. I think I need to check Linda Buetler's Clematis book out of the library again.

Gardengal thanks for all your usual good sense & advice. I have an Akebia & I like it very much. It took a couple years to get about 15 feet though. I can imagine the perils of special ordering....I got a great deal on a 10' japanese maple last fall that had been a special order, & the lady just "changed her mind". After they did all that work finding just the right one. The Clematis Vitalba is not really a PNW west native is it?

It's too bad I won't have a Virgin's Bower. I had the hitching post all ready for the Unicorn & everthing.

You're right - C. vitalba is not a native species, but it has naturalized so well and so thoroughly through much of the west coast, it seems like a native :-) A serious pest, though.

I have silver lace vine planted on a fence, once established it is a very rampant grower, it's called mile a minute vine and it lives up to it's name. It gets some serious pruning every year.

A......

Polygonum aubertii (silver lace, silver fleece, mile a minute) is also considered an invasive species and is on both the Washington and Oregon noxious weed list. I'd avoid this one, also.

I'd second the Akebia, lovely evergreen foliage, very vigorous, small flowers in spring but the possibility of nice lavender fruits if you plant two varieties. Mine is shaded part of the day by a large maple on one side and a very large cedar on the other, but gets sun part of the day.

Well I don't think I really want to unleash the silver lace vine on my yard, but Gardengal, just out of curiosity what noxious weed lists do you use? I ALWAYS check them before planting anything because I live near an urban stream which volunteers are attempting to restore. I found three other knotweeds on the lists below, but not the Aubertii. The only thing I found in reference to Aubertii was something from Whatcom county about it being on a monitor list & possible having crossed with another invasive knotweed. Are these monitor lists available to the public?

BTW I have vitalba popping up everywhere ( I have a neighbor who grows it as a hedge & lets it flower). It has not volunteered however in this particular spot:-)

I use the Oregon State noxious weed list (ODA), & have used the Washington state NWCB list.

I refer to both those lists as well but also favor the information published by the Washington Invasive Species Coalition. This is a group of various organizations that work in concert with members of WSNLA (the WA state nursery and landscape association) to discourage the sale/planting of plants that have demonstrated the potential for invasiveness but have not yet necessarily made the official lists. Their publication "Garden Wise" is distributed by associated nurseries and lists a number of potentially invasive species that are still commonly sold and planted and offer suggestions for alternate, non-threatening plants that have similar but more positive attributes. All of the suspect plants listed in this brochure have demonstrated an ability to escape cultivation and naturalize and are currently found in various greenbelts, woods and other uncultivated areas.

I like that this is a very proactive approach that will hopefully slow the spread of many of these plants before they reach the critical mass stage, which is when they hit the "official" lists. I base my buying for the nursery on the recommendations of this coalition and the plants included in the brochure.

Here is a link that might be useful: WA Invasive Species Coalition

Thank you Gardengal, that's a great list. And the silver lace vine is on it for sure.

As you pointed out just because a vine tolerates shade doesn't mean it wont seek the sun & I would really like something that will stay on the arbor. As I was drinking my tea on the porch this morning, I noticed the Akebia planted there was growing up under the eaves, exhibiting actual shade seeking behavior. So I think all who voted for the Akebia win.

I like flowerfans idea of a bottomless container. That has worked for me in the past, in difficult spots. Works especially well if you fill it with some of the native soil. It seems to give the vine a head start & eventually they always worked their way down into the soil. And then I could try sneaking in one of the smaller clematis' just to see what happens. AND I just found a source of free preserved lumber to build containers with.

Thanks everyone.

I'd also vote for akebia. I planted a very small one about 6 weeks ago on the north side of my garage, under the shadow of the eaves. It has grown a lot already. Too soon to know if I will get flowers, but I was mainly interested in greenery to cover the garage. It has already climbed about 5 feet up a 6 foot trellis and has spread out about 2-3 feet. Really pretty foliage too. It only gets about an hour and a half of filtered morning sun.

If you're still looking, here's one I'm in love with, Corkscrew Vine (Vigna caracalla). It gets pods like a pea and its flowers are as fragrant as hyacinth and bloom for quite a few weeks mid-summer on. They look like lovely purple and yellow corkscrews. I haven't been able to get them to grow from seed, so I wait til Park Seed puts them on sale. They almost died last winter when it was so cold, but they came back real strong and are perennial in zone 8+ (I'm in San Jose, CA). The leaves are luscious green, sprawl all over the ground if you don't give them something to climb on, and from year 2 climb up higher than the 10 ft. pillars I have them on. Just a little sun required. Might keep them in a pot til you find out. I've started doing that a lot, try to keep them in one place for a year to see what they say.