Hi Papou. I have had three from that list. Cherry Berry tends to get smaller rather then larger and I expect that in a year or two more it will disappear altogether. I think this is seen by a lot of people who have planted it. And, in my yard anyway, I think Great Expectations is an 'annual' :-) Brim Cup tends to get really raggedy and ugly around the edges.

Papou,I don't have all of those named hostas,but Fire and Ice,while not hard to grow,always melts out in the center,and disappears early every year,but always returns every year. This year,I moved it to a place where it gets more light,and it remained on the scene,a lot longer. I hope next year it will thrive better. I have said before that I have no trouble with Knockout;in fact it is one of my better growing hostas. Phil

I believe there is some loss in TC, or rather the TC stock isn't the best effort. For example if a lab managed to produce a Snow Cap that grew well then we would like it. I personally know 4 labs producing Great Expectations and I'm sure there are more.
How do these 4 labs compare, no one keeps or tracks these results. I only speak to the 4 labs I've visited and know the people and I cannot recommend a source for a Great Expectations like the photo attached.

1 Lunar Eclipse Mine had the famous bad edges.
2 Brim Cup Never grew, just got smaller and I had several.
3 Color Glory Mine grew quite large and burned really bad
4 Knockout Never grew well
5 Patriot Has done well everywhere IÂve placed it.
6 Fire and Ice
7 Cherry Berry
8 White Christmas Very very VERY slow but nice.
9 Snowcap I got this because I saw a beautiful OS in MN but my TC has never grown well
10 Super Nova
11 Great Expectations It is inconsistent and everyone gripes that theirs doesnÂt live up to expectations but IÂve never seen a photo of an ugly one.
12 Frances Williams
13 Sea Thunder
14 DuPage Delight
15 Sultana I have OS from Zumbar and it is really nice if a little slow.
16 Little Aurora
17 Cadillac

I tend to agree with esther_opal about some of the failures.
As a former Hosta nurseryman, I have seen many Hosta come out of the labs, that should have gone to the recycle bin.
Some of their liners never made it past puberty and were destined to become perennial juveniles. I have had to trash entire trays of some cultivars, because they never reached saleable size. Some growers force foliar growth with massive doses of Nitrogen, to produce a saleable product, but there is an inadequate root system to support them and once planted, they dwindle in size and often die. :Rb

I only have 5 from your list, Papou.

Brim Cup does fine for me, although a slow grower.

I am also surprised (as you are) that Patriot and Fire and Ice...no problems with either one.

Great Expectations has been transplanted twice, and has survived well, and maybe if I STOP moving it, it may get bigger!

Francis Williams did not survive dividing and transplanting. That's one I believe needs much more water than the rest!

Julie

Papou, all the hostas I am speaking of were planted as 2-4 divisions plants in 2006. Patriot and Great Expectations did beautifully last year. I planted Frances Williams and Brim Cup in too much sun (I think). FW grew well but burned out. BC looked terrible from day one. The leaves were convex and the margins were shriveled and torn. I moved them both to a very shady spot for next year.

I only have experience with a few so I will list only those...

2 Brim Cup - I have had it for several years but is only so-so aesthetically and doesn't seem to increase in size

3 Color Glory - I used to LOVE it but last year the leaves weren't too pretty...burned edges like Frances Williams

5 Patriot - this used to be one of my favorites?? Maybe I left my best one at the old house? Or it didn't like two moves in two years? It seems the white edge wasn't as wide as it used to be.

6 Fire and Ice - Mine was 4-5 years old and still small. I think I may have finally killed it when I heat treated it for nematodes last summer

7 Cherry Berry - never got big...always was slug ridden. Finally, last spring it never came up and I didn't shed a tear!

8 White Christmas - I agree very slow to grow but I do have at least one nice one, however small for a plant that's several years old

9 Snowcap - this is a wierd one. I have one that I've had for at least 7 years that has a wide cream margin with a frosty blue leaf. Look how few leaves it has!
{{gwi:1105237}}

this one is 2 only years old and looks completely different. Lots of green leaves with a very thin cream margin. Really fast growth. Will the real Snow Cap stand up please!
{{gwi:1105238}}

10 Super Nova - This used to be another favorite at the old house (I love the coloring on it) - too many moves? We'll see next summer.
11 Great Expectations - Mine have done well. This one is about 4 years old
{{gwi:904187}}

12 Frances Williams - great when it was young but now too many burned edges

13 Sea Thunder - I love the coloring on mine in the spring but they seem to have a problem with melting in the center by mid June

17 Cadillac - I got it in 2005 and was very nice this summer
{{gwi:1105239}}

Char

"I have seen many Hosta come out of the labs, that should have gone to the recycle bin.
Some of their liners never made it past puberty and were destined to become perennial juveniles."

To find out the lab would have to be the grower and raise prices, all this process has cost and we like the prices afforded by TC with the attendent problems.

I don't have an answer for all the problems but it ain't simple, if there were a simple answer someone would be doing it.

BTW, the first Snow Cap is what I think a Snow Cap is and the habit is exactly like the 10 Snow Cap I have which does not look like the OS I saw which was like your green thick/full one with bluesh leaves like the sparce one.

Of the list I only have Patriot & FW both did very well last season, their first w/ me . But I do have one that will be up for adoption next year if it does not straighten up & do something for me. I got a nice eye of Pizzazz in June it did absolutely zero growth after it was planted looked like plastic all summer into fall. But as I learned on this forum I should not expect much for up to three years.... maybe it was making roots all summer or in semi shock, so fingers crossed it will grow some this spring . The best thing about these lists is new hosta folks can avoid spending $$ on plants that are duds for many, and those who enjoy a challenge can pick one off the list to try . Thanks for posting the list Papou . ~ Dot

Char, I can't nail it down, but your 2nd Snowcap pic reminds me of a young Pizzazz.

Papou, your Loser list is pretty much on the mark. Some folks will say one is a great grower, some another. But in general, your list is correct, for whatever reasons. You have several listed that grow for a couple years for most people, then die.....like Great Ex., Fire and Ice, White Christmas, Sea Thunder.
Color Glory, Francis Williams, DuPage Delight, Super Nova all burn some years.
Snow Cap just doesn't grow. Mine is at least 10 now and has 2 divisions.....but I had a perfect leaf last year and got a blue ribbon at the Midwest Regional LOL!
I guess I wouldn't recommend any on your list to a novice starting out, but that is my own opinion.
I do have a nice Brim Cup in full shade that has never had problems..same with Cherry Berry.
Rox

"but I had a perfect leaf last year and got a blue ribbon at the Midwest Regional LOL!"
Rox

Don't bother to get mad at me but that among many other reasons is why I don't like cut-leaf shows. I know the growing conditions of a "Best of Show" at one national convention that was nothing like "garden conditions", it was more like the cows in Japan that never get out of the stall and are fed milk.

I know many take great pleasure in cut-leaf shows and I don't want to interfer with that pleasure.

Char, My Snowcap looks like your first pic...only a few leaves...instead of growing, it seems to diminish year after year. So this is one for the birds...

Pizzaz is a bad one also for me. It grew the first 2 years then started to diminish. I transplanted it 2 years ago and seems to grow OK but slowly. Yet, I dont think I would buy Pizza nor Snowcap if I started a collection. There are too many other beautiful specimen out there now to bother with these two.

Knockout is the worst looking hosta in my gardens. By mid summer it is simply ugly...the margins are all torn up. This margin tearing is true also for my Brim Cup...but not as severe as Knockout. Anyway, here are two more that will eventually come out of my gardens.

Patriot has grown well, although I prefer Minuteman which to me is more vigorous.

Cherry Berry has grown well for 5 years now, but it is a slug-magnet hosta that require special care and protection against slugs. So much trouble...I find.

Papou

You could add 'Change of Tradition' to the list, mine has done reasonably well, but a lot of people told me it would be a hard one to keep growing

Some of the 'Baby Bunting' sports have a not so good reputation as well (Cherish, Cameo, Hope, Pandora's Box).

Congratulations, Rox!! Good show!
Keep on entering as often as you can. Most serious Hosta growers do.

Papou, I may have asked you this before, but do you find Minuteman's margins the same width as Patriot's?

Esther opal has my vote: these all have come out of tc much the worse for wear, for many reasons both known and unknown.

The point of buying larger multi-division plants from a grower who has been able to harden them off after tc is the easiest way out of the problem.

Bruce

I can get half the ones on your list to grow great here but there's some not on your list that won't grow at all here. I'm really surprised not to see Tattoo high on that list. It took Snow Cap 4 years to get some size but it looks great here.. I think Ester is right and there's duds on the market. I also believe that this arises from the tc labs pushing the plants on the market to soon and not really caring about "us" the customer.

05-19-2007

07-30-2007

05-19-2007

07-30-2007

Pat, I have not actually looked closely to see if Minuteman and Patriot have different margin's width...but will look it up next summer... It would be easier for me to detect a difference, if any, if both were growing side by side....but they are not...

Tattoo should definitely be on the list...at least for those of us in Zone 5. I have had such bad luck with a lot of Tattoos which all died here...except two...out of 17.

I'm having some difficulty growing Olive Branch, which is such a lovely hosta...that caramel color is unique!! I lost one over a period of 4 years...smaller and smaller...then it disappeared...

It is said that Color Glory starts going downhill after 4 years. I recently acquired Cadillac which apparently is an improvement of Color Glory?? So far, Cadillac has grown well...the future will tell...

Papou

There are 2 I can comment on: Patriot and Cherry Berry.

I have both Patriot and Minute Man and while neither are fully mature in our small yard, there is no doubt whatever the MM is by FAR the more vigorous one for me. My largest Patriot did some weird leaf puckering thing this past year and I'll keep a close eye on it this year, I have an uneasy feeling about it.

Cherry Berry was purchased as a smallish TC, single shoot if I remember correctly, and it never came back the next year. While I like the looks of it, its propensity for being a slug magnet means it is not on my most wanted list.

Here is a link that might be useful: Hosta puckering

I don't try to make rules because of one individual plant but by all reports Color Glory burns as mine has, I can't see taking on notorious plants when there are so many known performers.

Tattoo could be an exception because it is so unique, I have White Lighting (attached) that is reported to be a full time job maintaining the habit shown in this photo but it really cute to me.

Guess I speak out of both sides of my petioles.

esther, that pic is of a 'Winter Lightning' not a 'White Lightning' ;-))

Rox, brings to mind the five most important words in the language;

"That's true you are right"

My wife taught me those words the first year we were married. Then she says "and now the suffix"?

"That's true you are right, darling."

That's a good boy, go play and I'll call you when I need you.

Sometimes I find it necessary to be more emphatic and respond;

"ThatÂs true you are ABSOLUTELY right, sweetheart."

BTW, I had it mislabeled in my photos.

Butch,
Personally have not yet decided if that's an attractive hosta or not. Don

PS At least it's distinct!

"PS At least it's distinct!"
Don

Have you noticed how often ugly is admired because it is unusal, I guess it amuses me because it is different?

My Francis Williams looks so good, I bought a second one this year. Patriot always gets ragged for me. I have a Brim Cup that has done nothing. I saw a bunch of Sea Thunder at a Lowes in Tuscaloosa, AL that looked horrible - centers melted out. Was amazed that anyone would consider buying them.

OK,I agree we all have hard-to-grow hostas,but here is my Knockout from this year,and,even despite the spring freeze,and drought,it is still one of my best growers! Phil
{{gwi:1057654}}

One I haven't seen mentioned is Dancing In the Rain. Every year by the end of the year it is a melted out mess! Anyone else have this problem with this one?

Toymr2mk2,

I have Dancing In the Rain also. I got it in 2006 and here is a picture of it this year on July 29. While I do see some melting and some other leaf damage, I don't think it looks too bad for late July. Is that melt out where some of the leaves are split in the middle or something else?

However, I'm in zone 5a and I have this hosta in a location that only gets some sun until 11 a.m.

Char

Dancing In the Rain -July 29 2007
{{gwi:903511}}

Char,
Yes the splitting is caused by the centers melting out. In your pic the leaf on the lower left is just starting to melt out. This is how mine starts out also and it goes down hill quickly. I have tried it in mostly shade, morning sun for a couple of hours and even put it in bright light for most of the day last year. Next year I am going to repot it and renew the mix as well as up pot it and put it in another area. I really do like the look of this hosta. I am not much for babying hostas yet continue to try with this one. But each year of it looking so ragged moves it closer to the compost pile. Thanks for the help!
Art

I swear sometimes I feel like I'm at an AA meeting listening to the stories of when they last had a drink and how much they drank and what crazy things they did when they were drunk.

Considering how many known performers why do "WE" chase around hard to grow, difficult varieties?

If no one ever buys a new one then we never learn if they grow well but when some of "US" do buy a new one that should never have reached market why don't we kick the bum out and get on with our life.

Excuse me I have to get back to keeping H.ÂWinter Lighting from reverting.

EO--I have had Winter Lightning since 2005 and have never had to take off a single division, so you might get lucky and have a "good" one. I didn't get a picture of it this last year, but it has 7-8 divisions now.
Rox

Hosta 'Revolution' I have killed 2 of these.

I have had good luck with Knockout, Cherry Berry, FW, & Patriot. Was about to give up on Cadillac until I moved it. Doing that really helped. Sea Thunder seems to be growing well, but early high heat burned some of the leaves last year. A later flush covered up the damage and it looked ok. My new Sultana is so dinky I can't comment yet. My first Great Expectations looks decent, but of course is s-l-o-w to grow. Like a dope, I ordered 2 others from 2 different sources to try in different locations. One now looks just like Dream Weaver, which would be ok except I already have 3 of those. And the other one looks like it is heading in the same direction.

I have one August Mooon that after years is not much bigger than a mini. The others are large. Same problem with So Sweet. It won't grow. They must be poor specimens.

I note that hostas in certain areas suffer from vole predation. I can keep them under control in most of my woodsy gardens, but am losing the battle in a few areas. Minor damage must cause the hosta's growth rate to suffer somewhat. I'm sure that I don't find all of the telltale holes and tunnels, and later wonder what happened to a particular hosta. Sometimes it is really obvious that a hosta has been attacked, and it is no surprise to see it shrink in size the following spring.

I don't have many on your list, Papou. If too many list members have problems with a hosta, I now avoid it like the plague.

~Bunnycat

I had Dancing in the Rain also...but it disappeared the year after I planted it. It was nice at first...looked like Remember Me but bigger. The thin white leaves melted out. Anyway I did not replace it and wont.
Like you say Bunnycat, there are so many wonderful easy-to-grow hostas now on the market, so why should I bother with these hard to grow hostas...I'm not interested...

Papou