Oh, and some black beans and pintos too.

Mandy,

First, get the date of your county's average first autumn freeze in your head and count backwards from it to figure out how many days you have left in the frost-free growing season. If you don't already know what it is for Claremore, look at the Oklahoma Climatological Survey pages for Rogers County linked below and you'll learn all sorts of info about your county's climate.

Since the OCS chart shows that 5 years in 10 your county's first recording of 32 degrees occurs earlier than October 26th, that's a good date to use for your "first fall freeze" date. Keep in mind though, that you'll see a "first fall freeze" earlier than that part of the time, and later than that part of the time.

So, from October 26th back to June 22....you have slightly over 4 months of frost-free growing season left if your fall freeze arrives at about its average time this year.

Birdhouse Gourds: Of the crops you listed that you want to grow, birdhouse gourds are going to be iffy based on that kind of timing, since it can take them anywhere from about 95 to 140 days to mature, depending on the weather conditions. So, by planting them very soon, you might get mature ones before a freeze arrives, but you might not. In the years when I plant them, I usually plant them in May, or maybe in early June, but I'm way down south near Marietta, so my average first freeze is around Thanksgiving and they have longer to mature here from a later planting. They are heavy feeders.

Pumpkins: Like gourds, pumpkins need to go into the ground pretty soon to guarantee they'll have time to mature before the arrival of fall weather. They are heavy feeders and need lots and lots of water in June, July and August.

Cardinal Climber vine grows just fine here. You can plant it right now if you want. It grows very quickly in our heat and is very drought-tolerant. Soak the seeds overnight before sowing them and they'll sprout more quickly.

Tomatoes are heavy feeders. At this point, you can plant fall tomatoes as soon as you have a place for them and as soon as your rooted cuttings are ready. I like to have my fall tomatoes in the ground no later than mid-July, and the earlier than that the better, to ensure ripe fruit before the freezing weather arrives.

Broccoli, Cucumber, Kale and Lettuce all are heavy feeders too.

Of course, peas, beans and the vetches all are givers.

I wouldn't worry too much about any of the heavy feeders this summer/fall because you'll have from late fall or early winter onward to work on rebuilding the soil.

Have you read the threads that have the fall planting dates? If so, you already know the recommended planting dates.

If this is your first summer here, you have my sympathy because it is proving to be a hotter than average one, and you are in a very humid part of the state, so your heat index numbers are going to be off the chart this week, and possibly for the rest of the summer.

It can be a little hard to get fall crops established in our heat, especially those like brussels sprouts which have to go into the ground when the heat is insanely bad. Careful attention to watering and mulching the soil to keep it cool will help them get well-established and survive the heat until the cooler fall weather arrives.

Dawn

Here is a link that might be useful: Rogers County Climate Data from the OCS

Thanks so much. I thought my first freeze date was closer to Nov 1st. Now I know better LOL.

Let me start off by saying that the pumpkins were started in early may and are doing just fine. I informed hubby that those were probably all he was getting this year and he told me that was ok.

I'm a little concerned about the gourds though....the kids really want some and I know there's just not a whole lot of time for them. Can they be grown successfully in pots? Maybe we can have a gourd planter garden? LOL Or could they be in ground but covered over to protect them until Halloween and Thanksgiving decorating?

It sounds like the lettuce and whatnot should be ok since about 60% of the garden should be beans and nitrogen givers, so I think I'll have a bit of a balance. Plus I plan to compost and fertilize well.

Would you recomend letting my lemon cukes climb? Or just let em go on the ground? Have been considering using a large planter and trellis for them....

LOL, it is not my first summer here, just my first season gardening. We moved here during May 06 so this is hot season #3. I'm used to the humidity by now and northern CA reached 115 degrees every year so I'm ok as long as I don't go out midday :-p This year does seem hotter though.

Plan to start the Cardinals in a few days. :-p

Oh, where on earth do you find the vetch you all are talking about? Seed Savers Exchange doesn't carry it and I can't seem to find it in the few other places I've looked. I'm also looking for that Crimson Clover Scott told me about.

Thanks so much,
Mandy

Mandy,

It may be closer to Nov. 1st. The OCS data for my county is a little "off" in recent years, so yours may be too. I have found the first fall freeze to be highly variable. In the ten autumns we've experienced here in southern OK, our first freezing temperature of fall has come as early as the last day or two of September and as late as mid-December.

It would have to be a huge pot to grow birdhouse gourds---something the size of a whiskey barrel maybe, and it probably would require watering twice daily. I'd say go ahead and plant them. The worst thing that happens is they aren't quite mature and everyone learns a lesson about weather and the best laid plans. You know, if you start them ASAP and keep them well-watered, and avoid feeding them a fertilizer with nitrogen (it'll give you too many leaves and slow down flowering and gourd fruit set), you may luck out and get them to mature before the onset of freezing weather. After all, the weather is very unpredictable and averages are just that....averages, so there's a 50-50 chance the first freezing temp will come after the average date.

I usually let lemon cukes climb either my garden fence or a tomato cage, but they'd probably be OK sprawling. Because of their color, they're easier to find 'hidden' in the green leaves on the ground than the standard green cukes would be.
Well, if you've been here since 2006, you've seen some of our worst weather years....the drought of 2005-2006, the flooding of 2007.....and some of the ice storms as well. See there....we have a different weather diaster for every season. LOL I am starting to think this may be a record-setting summer in terms of heat/misery.

You normally can find cover crops at farm supply stores. Down here in the southern end of the state, that would include place likes Tractor Supply Company, Orschlein's or Agri-Products. I don't know what y'all have up there that's similar in your end of the state, but I bet Scott or someone else who lives up there can tell you where to find some.

If you have to order it online, try Peaceful Valley Farm Supply or Johnny's Selected Seeds, although the shipping may turn it into a pretty pricey purchase if you need a significant amount of it. Peaceful Valley has some wonderful cover crop mixes that I like.

Or you might check the Kerr Center website and see if they have a resource/source listing that could direct you to vendors who sell cover crop seed.

Dawn

Dawn, the planter I'm talking about using is a converted packing crate that originally shipped airplane parts to my husband's work (don't worry they only carry non toxic parts) so it should be plenty big...bigger than a whiskey barrel lol.

I think I'm going to give em a try. We'll see how it goes.

The only farm supply nearby is Stillwater Milling...I'll check them and see what they have.

If they don't have what I need I'll look into online shopping.

And, yes...Oklahoma does seem to have a weather disaster for every season. I'm just glad we don't get so much snow here that we can sled right off the roof and don't get snow free weather until May like the mountains of CA where my dad lived LOL...all he could garden there were cool weather crops and all in planters (man I hated helping him drag those things into the garage all the time LOL.)

Thanks for all your help.

Mandy

Stillwater Milling is a good place to start. It is hard finding small amounts for vetch and crimson clover. I have bought at a seed supply place in Collinsville. If you do not find small amounts before then, I can keep a little for you if/when I buy my 50lb bag up there in early Sept.

The last two years were not typical weather-wise here in Tulsa. It was much wetter and a bit cooler than usual. This year it has been fairly seasonal the last couple of weeks, but this current heat and dewpoint is more common for late July and August than late June. Any time the dewpoint is 72 it is going to be rough on the body while outdoors. At least we don't live where Dawn lives!!!

Scott,

Well, what in the world is wrong with where I live??????? LOL LOL LOL

Is is the 19-degree late freezes that hit us often here in the Red River Valley in spring, somtimes six weeks after our "average last freeze date'?

Is it the flooding rainfalls that will end a drought in one day (9.25" in one day in 2006, and 11.87" in one day in 2009)?

Is it the winter wildfires that can burn thousands of acres in one day and send residents and animals fleeing for their lives? Is it the winter drought humidities that can drop down to 4 to 6 to 10% and make your skin feel like it is cracking every time you walk outdoors?

Is it the recurring droughts that plague us for months on end?

Is it the dry years when we can have only 18-20" of rain the whole year long? Or, how about the wet years when 36-40" of rain (normal rainfall for you, I am sure) causes massive flooding in the bottomlands?

Is it the August weather that can give us a week of two with highs in the 105-112 range and lows over 80 degrees at night? You know, when we have weather that hot AND drought combined, the highways crack sometimes.
Is is the tornadoes? The hail? The swarms of hot weather grasshoppers that will eat clothes on the clotheslines, peaches right off the trees and window screens?

Is is the way we can be 60,70 or 75 degrees on a nice December day and then plunge down to 1 degree that night?

Is it the dust storms that blow in from Texas and turn the skies brown? Is it the 50-60 mph winds that accompany them and bring down power lines and send trampolines airborne?

Is it the lightning storms (often without accompanying rainfall) that cause so much lightning that cattle are struck and die in the fields ? (That's happened to 4 cows belonging to our neighbors in just the last year.)

Well, which is it? Which wild, wacky, weird and downright dangerous weather or climate conditions do we have here that you don't have there? Let me know, and I'll ship some of it your way. LOL LOL LOL

I am rolling on the floor laughing as I type this, because there are days I wish we had your weather. Ha.

And, for what it is worth, ever since all that rain fell in April-May, we have often had dewpoints in the 70s and it has been driving me crazy. Our heat index a couple of weeks ago kept hitting 109 day after day. On those days, our dewpoints were as high as 73-77. That, though, is rare here because we don't often have the moisture to give us those dewpoints.

It is drying out rapidly here, heat and grassfires have returned and the rain has stopped. So, at least now we're having weather I "understand". Your heat index numbers up there in your part of the state this week make ours look like a minor inconvenience!

I am afraid the weather is going to be brutal all summer long and fear y'all will have the worst of it, in terms of heat index numbers (which I think of as the "misery index"). We probably will have the worst of it in terms of dry heat, drought and possibly grass fires.

It's enough to make you want to spend the summers in Maine or Vermont or someplace where the summer heat is bearable.

When it is hot like this, I always ask myself why I think it is possible to even have a fall garden. Of course, the answer is that eventually it does cool off, although sometimes here that doesn't happen until October.

Last week and this week, when I look at the statewide maps on the OK Mesonet, I have seen some dewpoint, temperature, heat index and soil temperature numbers that leave me almost speechless. Scott, it is only June and they all are abnormally high. What in the world lies ahead in July and August?

Dawn

I found the Hairy Vetch and Crimson Clover online at Peaceful Valley. Thanks Dawn!

Still looking for the Hungarian but I figure that might take me a while. :-p

Thanks for all your help y'all.

Mandy

That about sums it up, Dawn!

In all seriousness, I just can not stand fire ants and the endless summers of the metroplex and north Texas. Have I mentioned (a dozen times) how we had NO precip at my house there between June 30 and Oct 7 one year, and how we had NO precip all of July and Aug another year? I was only there 10 years.

Best of luck on your fall garden, Mandy.

Mandy,

Stillwater Milling had small 5# & 10# bags of clover both white and red varieties the last time I was in there and I bet they will by planting time if they don't right now. It was a lot cheaper than ordering when I bought mine. Good luck !

Jill

Scott,

Good. I was afraid maybe there was one disaster or another that I might have forgotten to mention. LOL

Our weather here is a little too much like North Texas weather, except when I want it to be....and then it changes and is different.

Oh, wait, I forgot to mention the summer cricket problems. Did you ever have one of those? You know, the hot dry years when the crickets congregate in parking lots and you can't walk across a well-lit parking lot at night without having them going crunch, crunch, crunch underfoot? That's one North Texas climate-related thing I don't miss.

I have nothing to say about the cursed fire ants. If I say anything bad about them, they will find me in the garden and sting me.

Dawn

new to posting and i'm looking for others in this central oklahoam area. i've planted several ornamental squash and pumpkin plants this year in hopes of decorations. plants are doing great, but i wondered if i should trellis any, or keep them on the ground. i'm new to this item, but not to gardening. any advice would be appreciated!

Dustyzmomma,

Since I answered this on the other thread you posted, I won't repeat myself, but did want to say hello and welcome to the forum.

I'm down in southcentral OK, just about as far south as you can go and still be in Oklahoma, but we do have a lot of members in your part of central OK.

Dawn