So glad you brought up this subject!!!

I've got new raised beds this year that are really close to the house. I'm thinking of growing romaine, maybe radishes, that I received from the Seeds of Change give-a-way for winter eating. Anything else I could grow? And I know I'm going to need some kind of "cold frame"....so what would you do? (haha! "What Would Dawn Do? aka WWDD?") Just thinking ahead, although I'm drowning in what I need to do now.

I think others might be wondering also.

Paula

Lettuce, chinese cabbage, spinach, etc. etc. etc. LOL

I am thinking about trying broccoli in the fall because I am not going to get as large a harvest as I had hoped for from my Spring planting. If I can find an empty trellis, I might try a few peas, but I've never tried them in the fall before.

It's really hard for me to think this far ahead because I am just now pulling the Spring things and still putting in the summer ones.

I guess I have to try those tomatillas and that 'army' of eggplant Al bought. I forgot to plant eggplant in the spring so Chandra brought me one to the swap. It has been covered full time and was still being chewed on by something. I thought it was flea beetles, but yesterday I took the cover of so I could see what was happening, and the culprits were pill bugs (rollie pollie). I cleaned them out good yesterday and today I didn't see any near the plant but put a little DE around the plant hoping that will discourage them.

I am definitely planting peas in the fall. I'm considering taking cuttings of my tomatoes but I also have some seeds I could use. At this rate I won't be getting any tomatoes at all until fall anyway...

I'm sure some lettuce will make its way in somewhere...

Paula, I would put low tunnels over the raised bed. You could do it a couple of ways. One way is to erect the frame for the tunnels and leave the covering off until nights start getting chilly. Then you add a frost blanket type floating row cover (the one I use gives you approximately 8 degrees of cold protection) and use only that until really cold weather is coming. Then you add a layer of greenhouse plastic for the covering on top of the floating row cover. This is an Eliot Coleman style low tunnel. Or, you you make your original tunnel from the greenhouse plastic and use your floating row cover laid on the ground directly on top of the plants inside the tunnel.

You use use PVC pipe for the 'hoops' to support the greenhouse plastic, or if your DH likes working with electrical conduit and you want a sturdier tunnel, he could bend it into the appropriate arched shape. Johnny's Selected Seeds sells a "Quick Hoops" conduit bender, but it is possible to bend conduit without one...or at least that's what I've been told by someone who knows a lot more about that kind of thing than I do. If you don't have a Johnny's Selected Seed catalog, go to the website and type "quick hoops" into the search box and it should pull up the product pages featuring the hoop bender and tunnel supplies and the 'how to' videos. Of, just google using these words: Eliot Coleman style low tunnels. You'll get all sorts of articles, photos, etc. I've linked a MEN article on low tunnels.

You could grow any veggie that tolerates cool soil and cool air temperatures. This would include lettuce, spinach, cabbage, Chinese cabbage, winter radishes or regular radishes, kale, turnips, beets, carrots, broccoli, peas, cauliflower, green onions, etc. I think you could even grow cilantro and dill for quite a while because they tolerate cool soil and temps better than they tolerate hot soil and hot temps. As long as you have a low tunnel to provide some protection, I think you could grow quite a lot through at least January and maybe later than that, depending on what the temperatures do. Don't forget to add a few pansies, violas or snapdragons to your winter veggie plantings to add a little color and beauty.

Carol, I'm thinking of trying broccoli in the fall too since it hasn't done anything in the spring, and sugar snap peas as well. Of course I'll be growing lettuce again in the new cattle trough once the temperatures cool enough. When I pulled out the last ones last week because they were about to flower, we were so sad. This was the best lettuce crop we've ever had since it was raised above the ground and the pill bugs and sow bugs and other soil-dwelling critters couldn't touch it. The lettuce in it grew so much better than the identical varieties in the ground. They all were transplanted on the same day. I replaced the lettuce plants with bush lima beans that I had started a couple of weeks earlier in paper cups. Presto change-o!

It is hard for me to look that far ahead too when I still have spring onions and potatoes going strong, and have southern peas and more squash and more melons waiting to go into that space once it is available. I'm going to succession plant summer squash all summer long in the hopes that by the time the SVBs find and kill one set of plants, I'll have another set coming along in a different part of the garden. I'm covering them with row cover until they start blooming.

For me, it is getting harder and harder to distinguish between the spring garden and the summer garden and, eventually, the fall garden because I always have 2 to 4 flats of 'something' coming along to go in as a succession crop once something else finishes up. Thus, every week or two I'm yanking out something and then planting something from the flats in its place. It is the best use of land, though, because I don't let a raised bed sit there bare and unused. I try to harvest the crop that is finishing up in the morning and plant the succession crop in the early evening so it has overnight to recover a little from being transplanted. In an odd way my planting season never ends any more, which is a good thing if you like planting but a bad thing if you get tired of it. (I guess if I ever get tired of it, I'll quit doing so many succession crops.)

Because the high heat has started up earlier than usual, giving us July temperatures in early June, I'm doing a lot of succession plantings of southern peas. No matter what anything else does during the summer months, the southern peas always produce.

Tigerdawn, Do you have any little green tomatoes on your plants yet? I hope so. At this time of year, once you get them to set they do grow and ripen pretty quickly. I had to wait "forever and a day" for fruit that set in late February to grow ever-so-slowly and finally break color and ripen. Now, I'm finding ripe tomatoes where I didn't even realize green ones existed. I guess I get so busy that I don't notice the tomatoes are there until they're coloring up.

Dawn

Here is a link that might be useful: Low Tunnel Article From Mother Earth News

I have one green zebra cherry tomato growing.

I'm not sure I can second-guess the weather this year since so far we have had Winter, WET, and Summer. I think there should have been a Spring in there somewhere. Everyday I pull something for the chickens to eat that has gone to seed. In some cases, it came up and went straight to seed. The greens that were earliest were good for awhile, but those that were young plants when all the rain came, just went to seed. I left a few in the garden to help bring the pollinators in but I am now pulling those also.

I think I will be pulling my peas today except for the Mamouth Melting Sugar. One arched trellis has zucchetta in the ground beside the peas, and on the other side is Tess's Land Race tomato and both are just about ready for a support. I had two volunteer tomatoes also come up in that area that I just left there. One is to the outside of the trellis so when I noticed that the blooms were all clustered together, I quickly put a tall cage around it because it looks like it could be another Tess. The other volunteer is right in the middle of the north side of the trellis and is a couple of feet tall now. I hope that it isn't a Tess also or the zuchetta and Tess will be slugging it out for trellis space. If it is a Tess then I will have to dehydrate some I guess. I tried doing some in the dehydrator last year but we had so much humidity at the time that they took forever to dry. I wasn't too pleased with the result. I will try the dehydrator cycle on my oven this year and see if I like that better.

When I take out the Super Sugar Snaps, that frees up 16 feet of trellis. WooHoo Must be time for long beans...and what else?

I have four short tee-pees where I grew Cascadia peas, so they are only about three feet tall. They are pretty shady until earlier afternoon now that the tree has fully leafed out. I can't think of a climber that might tolerate that much shade. Any ideas?

I hope this doesn't show up twice. I typed it and did the submit, then it told me I wasn't logged in. So I logged in and it didn't appear to post the message, so I hit the back button until I got back to the message and did a copy and moved it to a new block. Sorry if you get it twice.

I guess the tee-pees are getting more sun than I thought because they get morning sun peaking between the trees, then are shaded at mid-day, then sun again in early afternoon. I planted some beans there just to fill up the spaces and to see if I could actually get a crop of yellow wax beans and they seem to be doing OK there now that the ground has started to dry out some. They seemed to stall for awhile but I guess it was too much water. They are in the ground NEAR the tee-pees but I still need something for the tee-pees. I can't think of any climber that will only grow 3 feet tall and tolerate some shade. I don't usually plant this area because there are tree roots and it received less sun, but I improved the soil a little this year and the short peas did fine there but they did a lot of their growing before the tree was fully leafed out.

I probably have 25 kinds of bean seed (mostly small quantities) and I wish I knew which ones were wimpy climbers and only grew 3 feet tall. LOL

Carol,

If you have any beans with 'half runner' in the name, like 'white half runner', those would grow on short teepees in partial shade.

Some of the semi-vining southern peas would climb a short tee-pee and then cascade back down. Off the top of my head, I'd say Pinkeye Purplehull, Knuckle and Colossus all are semi-vining types.

On a taller trellis like the one where your beans were growing and where you're going to put long beans, you could plant malabar spinach, if y'all like malabar spinach. There's a green one and a red-stemmed one and I've grown them on shady trellises that get morning sun/mid-day shade, and then dappled shade from about 5 p.m. until sunset. The red-stemmed one is highly ornamental and worth growing just for its beauty. However, they can reseed vigorously and can be invasive, so if you grow them, it is best to dead the blooms before they go to seed or you'll have millions of malabar spinach plants forevermore.

There aren't a lot of vining veggies that take too much shade, but I've had plenty of pole bean varieties produce well on my garden's north fence in an area where they get sun from sunrise until about 1 or 2 p.m. and then fairly heavy shade for the rest of the day.

I've also grown luffa gourd in part shade on a fence and vine peach, which is actually a small melon...sort of like Queen Anne's Pocket Melon--very aromatic but it smells better than it tastes. It isn't that it tastes bad, just that it is so mild that it is bland.

Speaking of shade, I need some. I need a portable shade shelter I can put up over a bed while I'm working in it. I'm digging the early potatoes today (if I can make myself go back outside and do it) and have discovered that digging potatoes in 95-degree heat is not fun.

Dawn

Thanks Dawn, I thought of cowpeas but was afraid the shade might hinder them. I'll go through my seeds and see if I have any of those names.

It is likely that I do have half runner beans. So is a half runner a short pole bean rather than a runner bean? I have three huge packages of runner beans but I thought I might try them later when the weather is cooler after everyone said they don't produce well in the heat.

You are right on with the recommendation for Malabar and I had already thought of that but I am going to put it on the fence when the MMS peas come out. That way if they reseed it is easier to handle. The other side of that fence is still our yard so I will be the only one with the problem. I tried Malabar once before and it didn't do much so I think it might benefit from a little shade.

I have been out weeding today and some of those volunteer tomatoes are looking more and more like Tess. If I really have four then I will just have to live under that trellis. Two are spaced out on the south side, one is on the north side near the east edge, and the fourth is in the garden area about two feet away from the west side of the trellis. I can get a big cage on that one, but it is likely to create a jungle there. Glad those cattle panels are strong. This year the arch goes over the sidewalk so even if it is muddy, I can still get in there to pick all of those little tomatoes. Of course, you never really get them all which is probably why I have them popping up everywhere. I also have two plants each of Sungold, Black Cherry, Yellow Jellybean, and one Santorini. There are several more volunteers out there which are also likely to be cherries since I'm sure I miss some of them when I pick. My non-gardening friends will be happy that I can't use them all. LOL

I'm off to go through my seed box.

Carol,

If you don't have any of those cowpeas and want to try some, let me know. I have plenty of the ones I named and would be happy to send you some. Last year some of my pinkeye purplehulls went berserk, crossed the pathway, climbed to the top of a 7' tall tomato cage, and cascaded back down to the ground. Normally, they get about 2' tall and send an occasional little long runner off here and there, but last year they just went nuts. I think they were trying to impress Tess.

I'd live under that trellis too. I'd put a little table and chair there and use it as a spot to just sit and enjoy the garden, with a copy of a gardening magazine in my lap and a big tall glass of iced tea. If there's a better place to sit than under the canopy of a jungle of bite-sized tomato plants, I can't imagine what it would be.

Your non-gardening friends will love receiving those extra bite-sized tomatoes. Sometimes I'll tell Tim that I don't like a particular variety or that some tomatoes that ripened up during heavy rainfall have a watered-down flavor and I'll say "they barely taste better than grocery store tomatoes so I hate to even give them to anyone". Then he reminds me that my tomato flavor standards are exceptionally high and that the folks he works with love every single tomato we give them because they all taste better than grocery store tomatoes. Sometimes I forget that, because I don't buy and eat grocery store tomatoes.

I have been digging potatoes, mostly Red Norlands so far, and a few blue or purple ones. I won't know for sure until I wash them off and can see the actual color of their skin.

Our potato yield is surprisingly high, so far, especially considering how heavy and dense the clay soil is where they're growing. I really need to build them a couple of special beds with really super soil. Even heavily amended clay tends to pack down with rainfall and irrigation and then, when the heat arrives, it bakes into rock-hard concrete. If I was a potato, I wouldn't want to grow in that soil! I'm pleased with the yield so far, but it is hot and I had to come inside and cool off for a while.

I can see a big plume of smoke off to our west/southwest in Texas, so someone has a big fire today.

We're pretty lucky here in terms of heat index. Our relative humidity is so low that our Heat Index is lower than our actual temperature. Although that's a good thing, it also is bad that our RH is dipping into the 20s in the afternoon. Anything below 30% and our fire risk elevates.

After I finish digging up this bed of potatoes, I am going to put a row of Beck's Big Buck okra in the bed. I already have a row of Stewart's Zeebest in another bed. Then, I think I'll likely underplant the Beck's Big Buck okra, after it gains a little height, with cream peas or zipper peas. The Stewart's Zeebest is underplanted with Blacktail Mountain watermelons. I never put just one thing in a bed.

I need to sit still long enough tonight or tomorrow to go through my seed box and pull out the seeds for fall tomatoes and start them. I have some interesting varieties to try that I haven't grown before, and of course some old favorites too.

Dawn

Carol, I'm sorry you missed spring, you must have been gone that day. I think my spring was one day in Feb.

I have the itch to build a cold frame, low tunnel or some thing like that, but as slow as I am it may not happen. I am still trying to dig ditches to install electric and water in the gardens. I got a ditch to the north garden and, what I call my okra bed, which only has one okra plant in it. The rest of the space is cucumber, squash and tomato.

The electricity will only go to the two gardens, I think. After digging the ditch to the shop and the north garden I am fed up with ditches.

Larry

Thanks Dawn, I do have Pinkeye Purplehull. Paula sent me a big envelope full last year because my order got cancelled, then I found a Ferry-Morse pack somewhere so I'm in good shape.

I have not had good luck with okra this year and only have a few plants up. I was just looking at Burgandy and wondering if I should find a place to put in a row of it. I didn't plant watermelon because of space, but I think I have seven hills of various melons. I am sure they will intertwine with each other but I don't need to save seeds anyway. I may save melon seeds next year, but if I do, I will plant each type in a huge pot and put them in the yard and not use garden space. I can separate them better that way. Of course, last year something ate a melon growing outside the fence. Well, they ate almost half of it, so it must have been a four legged animal. LOL

Yes, my Tess may be like sitting under a shade tree. Al helped me move the trellis this year and put it over the sidewalk. It makes a lot more sense since I can't plant anything under it anyway. First I would have to stand on it to pick tomatoes, and second, it would be too shady if my Tess really fills out. If you remember, Al had been in the garden with me for half an hour last year, when I spoke and scared him. I was sitting under the trellis picking tomatoes (yes, for 30 minutes) and he couldn't see me for the tomato plant. LOL He says he doesn't like the plant, but he always eats the tomatoes. I think he just doesn't like having to pick all of those little tomatoes. It's the perfect plant for kids. I think that intense tomato flavor is perfect for a salad. I have a friend who loves Tess best of all.

I took out the Super Sugar Snap today since everything was already planted beside the peas that will soon need the trellis to climb on. I may wait a day or two on the others since they are still producing a little.

I have been picking broccoli and putting a few in the freezer now and then. It is a bit of a disappointment since the heads are so small, but I have done nine packages so far, so that's 9 vegetables I don't have to buy this winter. I'll just keep adding a few and hope they will do better in Fall. We have enjoyed having it fresh and should be able to do so for awhile. I should be able to freeze another half dozen or so.

Do you plant potatoes again in the Fall? Someone on the forum does. Maybe Dorothy. I need to know when you can plant. I planted one tub of last years left over potatoes because they sprouted. I never saw them bloom, and the heavy rain made them fall over and they never came back up. They are still in the tub with the vines hanging over the sides and are turning yellow. If there are any potatoes in there, it will just be pure luck because other than dumping a bucket of rainwater on them if they started to wilt, and throwing a stack of leaves over them, nothing has been done. The have been 'on ignore'.

My garden looks terrible, with falling over potatoes, onions almost laying down and beginning to turn brown, pea vines looking worse each day, broccoli with the main heads cut out of about half. I need to rip out the old and make the new look better because right now it is in a very ugly stage. I'm still working on getting the peppers weeded but I just do that in late evening. I noticed I have a pepper about 3 inches on one of the vines that is probably 12 inches tall. I wish they would start growing.

Larry, Our spring was about the same as yours. We went from snow and freezing temps on one day in Feb. to the 70s or 80s a day or two later. Also, who can forget all that high wind along with high temperatures in March? Our poor plants are true survivors because they've been through everything.

Carol, Well of course you should find room for Burgundy Okra. It is such a pretty plant that I would grow it only for ornamental purposes if I could figure out a place to put it. My garden is overpacked.

I do remember that Al couldn't find you because you were hiding under Tess's lofty, tomato-laden branches! A couple of years ago, my neighbors called Tess's my "tomato tree" because it was in an 8' cage and I had to use a ladder to pick the fruit, which some of them found amusing.

Sometimes I plant fall potatoes. I think Dorothy does too. I'd like to do this year if I can manage to save some space for them. The problem with fall potatoes is that it is almost impossible to find certified seed potatoes at this time of year. So, that leaves you with a couple of options, and neither is ideal. You can try to get some of this year's smallest potatoes to sprout, but they have to have a specific period of dormancy before they sprout, and it is sometimes hard to harvest them early enough for them to have the proper dormancy before it is time for them to be planted. Sometimes you can manipulate them by putting them in the refrigerator for a couple of weeks to chill (sort of giving them a pseudo-dormancy) and then removing them and sprouting them inside before you put them in the ground. Or, you can buy organic potatoes 4-8 weeks before you want to plant your fall potatoes, and hold them inside (I put them on the floor of my pantry) until the eyes start sprouting, and then plant them. It is important that you buy organic ones because they are not sprayed with a chemical anti-sprouting agent like conventional potatoes usually are. (The anti-sprouting stuff does eventually wear off, but it can take a long time.) There's a third way---you can go to one of the websites of one of the big seed potato suppliers like Irish Eyes and order ProGibb and treat them with it, but it is really expensive.

There's the 4th way, and it often is the one I 'use' unintentionally. You can just accidentally miss a potato here or there when you're harvesting, and the ones you miss will eventually sprout on their own. That explains why I have several potatoes in my bed of early corn. Apparently I missed some tiny potatoes TWO years ago and they sprouted this year, though not last year! Last year my potatoes were rotated out of the fenced garden to an auxiliary area, and there are a couple of volunteer potatoes there too.

My garden looks pretty bad right now too. It is just that awkward time when the cool season stuff is finishing up and coming out and the newer hot season stuff is going in to replace it. There's not much anyone can do about it. I do hate when people stop by to look at my garden at this time of year because I just know they will think my potatoes are ill or dead and not that they are at the natural end of their growth cycle. I try to distract them by showing them my beautiful tomato plants!

I'm headed back out to the garden now to dig some more potatoes. It is not especially cool out there, but it's not bad, and tomorrow we're forecast to hit 99 which is too hot for potato digging.

Dawn

Larry, I didn't see your message earlier so I must have been typing. I don't blame you on that ditch digging, especially in this weather. How about a tiller like the little Mantis to loosen up the dirt in the trench then you just have to dig it out. My Mantis gets used for a lot of things. You may have to leave it in one place until it digs a hole, but once you get that first hole done, just pull very slowly toward yourself and it will cut a pretty good trench. It will throw some of the dirt out, but what is left will be pulverised and you can lift it out. I think it would dig to China if you didn't pull on the handle. I plan to have some low tunnels before Fall also. My DH has offered to build me a greenhouse, but I'm not ready for that. Good luck with the project.

Dawn, Will potatoes grow in the heat of summer? I have some certified seed potatoes that I didn't get planted in the Spring and they now look like they would be perfect to plant. I have only done Spring planted potatoes. It seems like Dorothy said that they left their small ones in the ground to sprout. At least I think that is what she said.

These didn't sprout much at first and even now the sprouts are only an inch or so high, but they are green and the potato is wrinkling so it is being used up. Should I just throw them in the ground and see what happens. I hate to tie up a space if it doesn't work.

After reading some very helpful old threads yesterday (thanks Dawn for all that great info) I got my seeds out yesterday & tried to narrow things down. I'm going to try Brune D'Hiver lettuce, more chard, and some Chinese cabbage. I plan to finish off the broccoli tomorrow so got some squash plants at TLC today on my way home from Red Earth - (they have a shocking number of tomatoes still, I hope they don't go to waste.) I got a Juliet too - I know it isn't the best for flavor but they produce for me no matter what.

My arugula all bolted immediately, so I'd like to try more, but my standard frilly lettuce & the red romaine has not gotten bitter or gone to seed yet. I keep offering it to people but if they are expecting me to pick and wash it for them, well sorry. Cilantro is a great idea.

I have 11 small tomatoes getting ready. When I was worried about the Juane Flamme I cut off a sucker and it has rooted nicely. The wind snapped off a branch of the no-flowering Berkley tie-dye & I'm rooting it too. I have never done this with tomatoes before!

I have one volunteer potato too, in the cow peas. Also from 2 years ago.

I'm thrilled with my broccoli harvest, perhaps because I've never grown it before & am frankly shocked I got anything.

So I think I'm learning a lot.

Carol,

Potatoes don't grow well in heat. They grow and produce best with daytime air temperatures of 60-75 and nighttime air temperatures of 45-55. Soil temperature plays a role in raising potatoes too. For the best possible harvest, your potatoes need to set and size up their tubers before soil temperature begin regularly hitting or exceeding 85 degrees. That's why we have to plant them so early in spring or late winter---so they'll be mature enough to set/size tubers before soil temperatures get so hot.

For fall potatoes, you want to plant them as late as you possibly can so they are not exposed to high temperatures for too long. Yet, you also have to get them into the ground early enough that they can set/size their tubers before the first hard freeze kills the foliar growth.

Generally, if you plant your fall potatoes about 3 months before you average first fall freeze date, they'll have time to grow and mature. If there's some early frosts, yo may need to cover them up so they don't lose foliage and stall.

I don't know if the seed potatoes you have now will do anything if you plant them in the ground with the kind of weather we're having. I think it is one of those things that might work if you planted them deep so they stayed cooler. I don't know if you think that's worth the usage of that much space for something that might not produce anything. However, since the small potatoes I miss just sit there in the soil and sprout when they're ready, I don't think planting them now will kill them or anything. I think they'll likely emerge and grow slowly in the heat and then, as temps cool down in the fall, will take off like a rocket.

Dawn

Carol, I bought a mantis about 2 weeks ago planning to try it on the ditches I wanted to dig. A ditch witch rental is $200.00 a day and I would have to hire someone to use it because I cant work very long at a time. The Mantis was $349.00 with a year return policy. I will check the gear box often to see if it is holding up OK, so far so good. The Mantis will dig down about 4 or 5 inches, beyond that I do better with a pick/Maddox and post-hole diggers (my back wont let me use a shovel).

I don't like the Mantis much in the garden. I have hand tools that I think do a better job with less damage.

I have another ditch to dig, it will be a rough one it I decide to run electricity in it. I want to make my gardens low maintenance while I am young enough to do the work.

Larry

Thanks Dawn, I failed to get them in the ground and had just planned to toss them, but they haven't rotted or anything, so I just left them alone. I doubt if they can make it until mid to late July which should be my planting time, I think, so I may just find a spot and bury them. Can't hurt.

I have heard people in Oklahoma say that when the vine dies you have to get them out of the ground quickly or the potatoes will cook because the soil is so hot. I doubt that is even true, but what few times I have grown potatoes, they have been planted very early in Spring.

It seems like my 'garden rhythm' is off this year. I first didn't get seed started in time because I couldn't use my light shelf for awhile. Then it seemed like it rained everyday, then we had a monsoon, and the ground was wet forever. I had hoped to plant a lot of annuals for my flower beds, but that didn't happen. The perennials seemed to love the rain and they look nice. I heard a few say, "I've fallen and I can't get up", but with a little lift and some support they are fine. It's a good thing because I haven't planted much of anything new in my front or side yard this year. The orange ditch lillies need to be thinned and some of the space planted with something else. Those things sure seem to spread fast.

Dawn, tell OkieTim that I picked him a salad today. I dug out dozens of tiny dandelions from my garden today while I was weeding.

Carol,

You know, I tried growing dandelions for him, but it got too hot too early and they just withered away in the heat before they got very large. I'm going to try again in the fall/winter.

He's having a bad week. Yesterday and the day before he was hit from behind by inattentive drivers who apparently didn't realize the traffic ahead of them had ground to a halt. Twice in two days! Both times, it was a bumper-hitting-bumper thing with no real damage done, and both drivers apologized profusely and offered him their information in case he later discovers a problem with the car that was caused by the collision. How stupid would you feel if you hit someone from behind, and when he gets out of his vehicle, you realized you hit a cop's car? lol Apparently he made it to work tonight without getting hit from behind because he hasn't called me to say "I got hit...."

Dawn

Bet their heart dropped into their shoes when they saw the uniform but I can do you one better.

This man in Miami bought a new truck. He was leaving on vacation so he just left it at the dealer and told them to detail it and he would pick it up when he returned from vacation. He drove it 6 miles and got T-boned by a young man. The kid jumped out and started to apolized and wrote down his own information. Then he asked the man whose truck he had just hit where he worked.

He said, "I'm the District Attorney." Of course there was a lot of stuttering and stammering while he digested that.

Lots learned from this thread!

Just as I was ready to pack away the seed-starting shelves, I have a reason not to. I'm going to start some brocs, romaine & cauliflower! I'm excited about the hoop options for my new raised beds!

Larry - don't give up on that Mantis yet! I bought one this year. It's the 4-cycle one. Got a good deal on it with the Dixondale order we did this spring. Mine was a bit over $400, but it's been worth it's weight in gold plus some already. For ditching, we just got back over the trail repeatedly, digging further down each time since it throws so much up on the sides. It sure saves the back, but the tail-bone muscle. That particular part of my body is trying to give out before most of the rest. My DH has all kinds of ailments. He worked cement for too many years. What ended his cement work was getting run over by a Dolese truck. It's a thousand wonders the man can walk, much less garden! That Mantis has saved his back many times already. We even used it to mix dirt in the new raised beds plus a small extension to the Original Garden. Sometimes it takes a while to convert to an easier way of working when you're more accustomed to another.

Carol - give those taters a try. This spring, I gave Seedmama the remainders of Yukon Gold that I had saved all winter. We decided not to grow them this year and last I heard, they're doing just fine. If they don't make it, oh well. They definately won't make it if you don't try!

Dawn - OMG....poor OkieTim!!!! (and that poor person that realized they hit a cop's car!) Sometimes ya just gotta look up and say "Thank YOU!!!". That's all I can say.

Paula

Larry, Forgive me if you already know this, but I just want to make sure that you know that the blades can be put on in either direction. One just kind of works the top few inches of the ground and the other way really digs in. You must have some really tough ground. I have gone through sod with mine.

There's a big outbreak of "Mantis mania" occurring on this forum, because I got one a few months ago too. I love it. It works organic matter and Espoma fertilizer into the soil perfectly and quickly for me. I haven't used it to break up any virgin ground, but I bet it would work just fine on it. It's really powerful for something that size. I only have clay though, and seldom hit any rocks.

Carol, That is too funny. I think hitting the DA would be a lot more nerve-wracking than hitting a police officer.

Paula, I think I would have given up cement work too after being hit by a Dolese truck! Ouch!

OkieTim was not an especially happy camper. I think the Mazda is almost three years old, although it has high mileage on it already since he drives it back and forth to/from work in Dallas. It still looked brand-new until a couple of months ago.

One day, Tim drove the car right into a rotating supercell. He actually did pull off the road when he realized the storm was crossing the road where he was, but it was too late and the hail banged up his car pretty good. Then it got hailed on again a few weeks later here at the house. Now the car's been hit by two cars in two days, and let's not forget that he recently left the car at the gas pump to go inside to pay and it proceeded to roll downhill out of the convenience store/gas station parking lot, across the two-lane service road and stopped only when it hit a pole. I'm starting to think the car is cursed.

Dawn

im going to plant Colard greens, radishes, Can you plant Carrots in the fall?

those are my plan so far... nothing big really

Oh wow, Dawn, it sounds like that car IS cursed! My car has a sunroof, so even though we do put ourselves close to big storms a lot more frequently than the average person, I go out of my way to avoid the hail. Several people I know chase tornadoes in old beater cars so that they can drive through hail cores whenever they want. You should see the number of dents on those things.

My big plans this fall aren't really to plant anything. I'm setting up my full garden for the first time (right now I just have a small fruit bed, a tomato bed, and trees and shrubs). So, I've been trying to figure out what kind of edging and fencing I'm going to use, how to build my trellises, what to put on the walking paths, etc.

The thing I'm most unsure about right now is how to prepare the soil. I don't have a tiller, so I was going to do it kinda lasagna-style where I'll kill the bermuda with Round-Up and dig up just the top two or three inches, then lay down cardboard and heaps of organic stuff and good soil on top. I decided against using the city compost in the vegetable garden (I'll still topdress the lawn and shrubs with it), so now I don't know whether I'm better off buying bags of good compost and top soil separately and mixing it myself or buying the ready-made garden soil. Or just putting down pure compost. Or doing it the real lasagna way and begging people for their dried leaves and grass clippings this fall. Either I do it the easy way and pay a lot of money or I do it the hard way for little or no money. Choices, choices!

i'm planning on at least 4 kinds of tomatoes for the fall - black plum, bradley, golden grape, and hawaiian currant. i'm hoping my seeds come in FAST so i can start them on time. :-) i ordered 3 8-gallon grow bags (my boss is letting me use outdoor space at the library for growing!!!!!!!!), so at least 3 of my tomatoes (assuming i start them successfully) will be happier outside! i have two 5-gallon pots on my balcony that will also receive tomatoes, and i'm planning on harvesting my cilantro/coriander seeds (plants are bolting now), so i can have cilantro in the fall, too. i'll also plant more lettuce. since this is my first time planting in the fall, and i've got seriously limited space, i'm trying to keep it simple! :-)

katie k.

ps. i do have a question... can i grow a winter cover crop in my pots?!? or will i have to replace the soil annually?

Krussow, The OSU Fall Gardening Guide, which is linked in the first post at the top of this thread, shows the planting dates for all fall garden crops, including carrots. Just click on the link in the first post to check the planting date for carrots. I think it is probably going to be in mid to late July for those of you in northern OK and early August for those of us down here in the southern part of the state.

Miraje, I'd probably buy a soil mix from one of the soil suppliers there in your part of the state. I think that would be the most economical way to do it. Chandra bought soil from several different sources and he was pleased with all of them, but one in particular seemed especially good. I don't remember which thread had the soil mix discusson though. You always could use some of a purchased mix as the base of your beds and then add some lasagna garden layers on top of that base this fall to give the bed more organic matter by planting time in late winter.

Katie, It sounds like you have a wonderful boss. That's terrific that your boss is letting you use some of the outdoor space for growing.

I haven't tried growing a cover crop in a pot and it might or might not work. Some cover crops get massive root systems that you generally would "plow under" in the late winter before planting. I'm a little worried that a cover crop will fill the pots with roots that you'll have a hard time removing in the spring.

You do not have to start all over with new potting soil in the spring. Some people do that, but I never have. I just add a blend of organic matter to the pots every spring to enrich what is already in the pot. I usually add some compost, a little composted manure, a handful of lime (because soil-less potting mixes are usually higher in peat and that makes them a bit acidic, so the lime helps keep it from being too acidic), a couple of handfuls of either Espoma Tomata-Tone or Espoma Garden-Tone, and maybe a little bone meal and blood meal. Usually I can tell from how my plants are acting in the late summer or early fall just how much 'improvement' the containers' growing medium needs.

Sometimes I pour all the growing medium out of the pots onto a big blue tarp, add new ingredients, mix it together well, and then refill the pots. Other times, I just stir up the soil with a trowel and mix in the ingredients I'm using to refresh and invigorate the soil-less mix.

After 3 or 4 years, I do dump the soil into a raised bed here in the garden, and start fresh with a new mix.

Dawn

Paula and Carol. thanks for the tilling tips. I did know that the tines are reversible, and today I found I can sit on the edge of the ditch with my feet in the bottom of the ditch, shove the shovel under the loose soil and drag the shovel handle back across my knee and then flip the soil out of the ditch with almost no pressure on my lower back. It is much easier than keeping my back straight and lifting the soil out with post-hole diggers.

Paula, you really did get a good deal on the 4 cycle model. The 4 cycle would have been my first choice, but it was $100.00 more from Mantis. The gear box will be my biggest concern, It really has to take a beating running at that RPM.

Larry

Larry, My Mantis is 5 or 6 years old and it is still a workhorse. Someone that lived here before me loved vines and they were all over the fence, all kinds. The worst were Virginia Creeper so I had tons of roots. Sometimes they would twist onto the blades and I could hear the motor slow down and I would have to pull the tines and clean them out. As soon as I did, it was good to go again. I had lots of grass to deal with as well so mine has not had a 'cushie' life, but it keeps on going.

When I was still a lurker I read the dirt postings with interest and now I have my two cents. Last year I got the garden ready mix from Minick and it was gorgeous, to grow flowers and shrubs. This year I expanded with Rich mix from Total Environment and it was just "eh". Not nearly as good as the Garden Ready Mix from Minick Materials, IMHO, (keep in mind this was for a flower bed tho).

This fall I will be planting anything I didn't have room/time/inclination to plant in the spring. Includes all my seeds a million seeds, carrots, ornamental kale, decorative gourds, etc. Am wondering how to tell if my broccoli has bolted to decide whether or not to pull it. It's very tall, but no individual tall stems with flowers, but no heads either.

I looked at Murphy's earlier today and checked out Minick's website just now based on your recommendation, and I admit I have a bit of sticker shock at their delivery fees to Blanchard (both are $150 just for delivery not counting the cost of the materials). It'll be a pain, but I think I'll just buy the top soil and compost in bags (maybe some composted manure too) and haul it home and mix it myself. With a little sheet composting over the winter I think I'll have pretty good beds by spring!

I agree, even in the Village I think the delivery wasn't cheap. I almost wonder about renting a pickup from Hertz or Lowes or Home Depot for $25 or whatever and picking it up myself.

Carol, I am glad to hear your Mantis does well, I sure hope mine does well also. They look like a toy and jump like a kangaroo, but they get the job done.

Miraje, it might not fit into your plans, but I was very happy with my cover crop of Elbon rye. Two areas I planted and just cut with a line trimmer in spring and planted in the stubble leaving the top of the rye as mulch.
I planted ornamental sweet potatoes, tomatoes, peppers and Irish potatoes in these areas and all are looking good. I will try to expand the cover crop and no-till area this year.

This process may not work well for starting seeds in the ground. But it has been the most maintenance free part of my garden and flower bed, I did add extra mulch though.

Larry

thanks for the suggestions, dawn! i appreciate it!

katie k.

Great posts. I'm planting Cabbage and Brussels in tires for the fall.
I got started to late this year so I have some cowpeas and some sweet pea baby plants in the garden. They're fine, but stunted. I suppose they'll take off later? By sheer luck my bell pepper plants just sprouted. And I have tons of Cauliflower. I'm going to plant them and see how they do. I think I might put the Cauliflower in tires as well and in partial shade. My young tomato plants are surviving. I'll be starting some more. I have young corn plants growing. They're about 1' high now. My eggplant - about 4" high - really seems to be doing OK with the heat though it seems to be stunted in growth. I'll be starting some more seedlings for eggplant, too.

Can I grow some more squash or zucchini? I'm assuming Winter Squash means just that? I LOVE to make stuffed zucchini/squash and I'm just dying for home-grown fruits to core and stuff.

ChickenCoupe, I sure admire your determination. I don't have anything in tires and I am working to keep some of my plants healthy. It so hot and dry, and the worst is yet to come.

I planted Purple Hulls yesterday and felt like I needed to water them in because the ground was so dry.

I tilled up and addition to my south garden this morning, the ground was so hard and dry. But I wanted to add on. I thought I had over 2000 sq. ft. of garden area, I measured yesterday and only had 1910 sq. ft.. I know that is very small compared to many of the forum members but it will be plenty for DW and me.

I will be watching the forum to see when to start seeds for my area, and also if I need to start them out side of in the house.

Last year Dawn post a link that showed planting in a furrow and then covering with potting soil. I tried it last fall and it worked very well.

I enjoy reading your post, good luck and happy gardening.

Larry

Larry;
I spend the morning attempting to fill one of those tires. I have a combination of sandy loom and clay. The clay was like concrete. The sandy was... well ... sandy. I had to slowly mix in water with the clay and then add sandy and then mix and soak some more and then add compost dirt. SHEESH

Katie, You're welcome!

Mia, At times like this, I wish we lived there instead of a couple of hours south. We have an old and well-used pickup truck and could haul purchased soil home from the suppliers for those of you who need to buy some. With the delivery cost being so high, it sure does make it expensive to buy a purchased soil mix.

ChickenCoupe, Your cowpeas should take off and grow just fine. I plant them all summer long up through early to mid-August. Every time another, less-heat-tolerant crop finishes production and comes out of the garden, I put in another row or two of cowpeas. By late July or early August, we have cowpeas in almost every bed in the garden.

By sweet peas, do you mean some sort of green peas like English peas? Or maybe sugar snap peas or snow peas? I'll be really surprised if they do well at all right now because they are "cool-season" crops that flourish in cold to cool weather. We plant green English peas and edible podded peas here in Oklahoima in February or March with the expectation that we'll begin harvesting about 60 or 65 days later. The cool-season peas begin struggling when the high temperatures begin hitting the 90s, and for most of us the peas are "done" by late May or early June.

Because we have a long growing season in Oklahoma, we actually have several "mini" seasons within that long season. I'm going to break it down for you so it will give you an idea of how to time your plantings next year.

We plant cool-season crops that tolerate some cold weather in February and March. This includes onions, potatoes, leeks, English (green) peas and sugar snap peas, broccoli, cauliflower, lettuce, carrots, beets, turnips, spinach, radishes, Swiss chard, collard greens, mustard greens, Chinese Cabbage and Kohlrabi. (Hope I didn't forget any of those cool-season crops.) These cool season crops are harvested in spring and a few of them (notably onions, leeks and potatoes) grow into June. All these cool-season crops need cool temperatures in order to do well and they stop producing and start burning up as the temperatures heat up. Onions, leeks and potatoes "get away with" growing into June and sometimes July because the important part of the plant that we harvest is underground where temperatures are somewhat cooler.

Warm-season crops generally can go into the ground beginning in March for those of us in the southern half of OK and in earliest April for those in the northern half of the state. The warm-season crops include these: tomatoes, sweet corn, beans, cucumbers, eggplant, peppers, southern peas/cowpeas (all types--blackeyed, pinkeye purplehull, cream zipper and lady peas) as well as long beans (like Red Noodle), melons of all kinds, sweet potatoes, okra, summer squash and winter squash, and pumpkins. Because some of these warm-season crops can handle more cool (but non-freezing) air and soil temps, we have to put each one in at the right time for it. Tomatoes, for exanple, can handle pretty cool soil and air temperatures as long as they stay above freezing, so they generally can be put into the ground beginning in late March, as can sweet corn in the most southern parts of the state. However, okra, melons, and peppers are much less tolerant or cold conditions, so we plant them a month or so later than tomato plants. I hope this explanation helps you and other new gardeners get a better idea of what grows best when.

In June, everyone's gardens are in full swing, but by late July a lot of the warm-season crops have either produced their crop and finished, or they have formed their crops and continue to ripen them but are struggling with the constant onslaught of insects, disease and high temperatures. That's OK though, because we get a second chance with warm-season plantings beginning in early July and can begin planting certain cool-season crops as early as mid-July (cilantro for everyone, and in the northern parts of the state broccoli, brussels sprouts, carrots and parsnips in the last half of July though southern OK gardners need to wait until early August to plant those).

Some of the warm-season crops planted at mid-summer will produce until the first frost, and some of the cool-season crops planted beginning in mid-summer and continuing through late September and early October will produce after frost and a few will overwinter with a little protection from the worst of the cold weather. Garlic can be planted any time after September 1st and then you harvest it the following year from sometime in late-spring through mid-summer (whenever the leaves are yellowing/browning and dying back).

So our long season actually includes cool-season crops planted in Feb., March and April, then warm season crops planted in late March through early to mid-August, then cool-season crops planted from mid-July through early October. It sounds complicated, but once you've done it for a couple of years, you begin to understand the natural rhythm of the process and you know exactly what sort of weather favors what plants.

Now, for the specific plants you planted:

Bell peppers normally go into the ground in April or May and are flowering and producing by June assuming you put pepper plants in the ground that were 8 to 12 weeks old. If your bell pepper plants went in late and were small/young, they will continue to grow and will begin flowering sometime after they reach a specific size, but you may not be harvesting bell peppers from the plants until August or September.

Cauliflower is one of the pickiest cool-season crops. As a spring crop, it does best when you plant it about two weeks before your average last frost date. However, it is not nearly as cold tolerant as some cool-season crops so you have to cover it up if temperatures are going to drop below about 26-28 degrees. You need to plant fast-maturing varieties because the quality of cauliflower is best if it matures before daytime high temps start going above 75 degrees. For fall plantings, cauliflower (which grows better for me in fall than in spring) needs to be planted so it can mature before the first frost. With most of the fast-producing varieties of cauliflower, you'll get mature heads about 60 days after you transplant cauliflower plants into the ground in spring, and about 75 days after you transplant cauliflower plants into the ground in August. If you can even get cauliflower to produce in mid-summer, the heads generally wil be very loose and poorly developed.

Tomato plants that are young and 'surviving' now ought to be growing at the rate of about an inch a day if they are well-irrigated. Growth will slow down as they begin to struggle in the heat. If you can keep your young tomato plants disease-free, they should survive the summer and ripen fruit for you sometime between late summer and late fall. We plant a second round of tomato plants in July for fall production because often our March- or April-planted tomato plants are tired out and losing vigor after months of fighting our erratic weather and the pests and diseases. For fall tomatoes, it is best to go with those that have shorter DTMs so they can get fruit to at least the breaker stage before frost arrives. Since frost and freezing temps kill tomato plants and ruin the fruit, we sometimes have to harvest the tomatoes green and hope they'll finish ripening indoors or cover up the plants well to protect them from an early frost. Often, if you can get your fall tomatoes through the first freezing night or two, you'll have another 4-8 weeks of growing season, also known as "Indian Summer'.

Sweet corn can tolerate the heat fairly well but heat and a lack of moisture can cause poor yields, especialy in plants that are pollinating at very high temperatures. I try to time my corn so it has tasseled and formed ears before the temperatures are exceeding 92-95 degrees. Field corn is more heat-tolerant. We also can plant sweet corn for a fall harvest, and normally that crop goes into the ground between July 1st and 15th. To give you an idea of when corn finishes up, I'll tell you how my three corn crops are doing: The early corn, planted in early April, has formed ears and we'll be harvesting it beginning either today or tomorrow. The mid-season corn, planted in late April, is just now beginning to tassel, so we'll be harvesting it about 3-4 weeks from now (sweet corn normally is mature about 18-24 days after the first tassels appear). The late-season corn, planted in mid-May, is about 18" tall, and it should be tasseling in about 3 weeks and then maturing in July. I try to time the three corn crops so that as the first variety finishes up, the second one is beginning to tassel and then as the second variety finishes up, the third one is beginning to tassel. I normally don't plant corn for fall unless I'm planting a popcorn or field/dent/flour corn because the spring crop usually fills up the freezer.

Your eggplants likely are struggling because they got a late start and still have small root systems, which makes it hard for them to take up as much water as they need to deal with the heat. Just keep them well-watered so the soil is moist (but not soggy) and they should continue growing.

You can continue planting summer squash throughout the summer up until the end of August. Winter squash can be planted anytime from now through the end of July, but the earlier the better so it can mature before cold temps arrive.

I know you got a late start and probably are frustrated by the way the plants are struggling. Next year, with a little experience under your belt, I know you'll get them in the ground earlier so they can take off and grow before the harsh summer heat arrives. Gardening is a learning experience but once you understand what the plants need in terms of air and soil temperatures, it gets a lot easier.

CURRENT REPORT FROM OUR GARDEN: Now, y'all, here's what is going on in our garden this week: all the potatoes and onions have been harvested and are curing. It was a very bountiful harvest for which we are extremely grateful, and helps make up for the disappointing performance of the snap peas, broccoli, and cabbage. In the space left empty by the harvest of potatoes and onions, we planted okra, watermelons, summer squash, winter squash, lemon cucumbers, lima beans and lots of southern peas of all kinds.

The tomatoes and green beans continue to produce very well although a few tomato plants that went really late haven't set a single fruit yet. The early corn is a day or so from harvest and we're still getting strawberries. Cukes went in when snap peas came out a couple of weeks ago, so they are just beginning to climb the trellis. The jalapeno peppers are about to mature the first peppers that set on them, and we'll likely begin harvesting those hot peppers in another couple of weeks. The hot peppers continue flowering and setting fruit. They seemed a little slow getting started this year. I think they just didn't like it getting so hot so early, but they've adapted and are looking good now. The sweet peppers have flowered but haven't set fruit yet. The bush beans are about half-way through their production period and I'm harvesting them every 2-3 days. Considering the heat and lack of moisture, the garden is producing very well.

Dawn

That was fabulous. Yes! Thank you so much. I've printed it out and added it to my journey of "gardening affairs" (LOL) so I'll remember. hehe Those beans? I don't think they're peas. I think the're "Pole Beans". Green beans?

I wanted to be detailed to give you a good idea of the challenges we face with the weather here.

It is deceptively simple to say we have a long growing season, because to me that seems to imply we can grow what we want all season long. So, I think it is a lot easier to break down our long growing season into weather-related mini-seasons in order to ensure we plant each crop at the best time for it. In gardening, timing is everything.

If they are pole beans, they'll be fine. They'll grow and climb and then once they are a decent size, if the temperatures are cooperating, they'll start blooming and forming beans. Even if the beans don't produce much between now and August, once September approaches and temperatures begin to drop a little, your bean plants, if healthy, will produce abundantly in fall's cooler temperatures.

Dawn,
My husband recycled an old rooftop antenna stand (a funky tripod,) and a patio umbrella to make a large portable umbrella.
When the girls were younger I could follow them all around the yard as they played in the dirt, or I could move it over their kiddie pool as the sun moved overhead. Now I will use it in the garden, so I guess I can't use the "heat of the day" excuse to stay inside...lol.
He also uses these u-shaped rebar things as stakes, because if it is windy, the umbrella will topple.
We have a mantis, too that we got used from a neighbor when they moved. It has been awesome.

Larry, last year when we "built" our garden with cinder blocks, I quickly ran out of steam and used that same shoveling method!! We had to move dirt, lay down the chicken wire (for moles and gophers) and then lay out the blocks. Then we had to fill the beds with dirt again. MANY times I questioned the plan, especially when I was planted on my butt and shoveling when I couldn't stand anymore. We have 7 beds that are 3x18, and a long one that goes across the tops of the others (kind of like a comb).

This forum is so valuable to me, I have learned so much in the last year!! I really appreciate hearing everyone's experiences as you plot and execute your garden plans! Tonight we ate yukon gold potatoes with green beans and onions, herbs and sausage with cornbread. The sausage and cornbread were the only storebought items! It was a celebration!!

Jammie

Jammie, you are making me hungry because it is too early for me to have green beans. I only have a small tub of potatoes but I think I will dump it out tomorrow and see if I have any potatoes. I should have planted bush beans early, but it didn't happen. I have pole beans that are above my head now so they should start blooming soon. I did a little experiment and planted some yellow wax beans although I have heard they are hard to get a crop from. The blooms are just starting to open on them. I planted two bush types today, Top Crop and Roma II, and a few days ago I planted long beans and another pole type. There are a few disadvantages to living in the northern part of the State, I guess.

Soonergrandmom

Did you get some brocolli growing? How were/are the beans (yellow and otherwise), etc. ?

I also referenced this one, too. I will bump it in case any newbies might be lurking as the question about when to plant for fall in Oklahoma is so frequently asked.

Much love to all and best wishes for a fruitful season.

bon

Bon,

Seeing this thread makes me feel like a child who just discovered it is almost time for school to start and summer to end. How is this possible? lol

I am looking at the calendar, shaking my head, and wondering how it already can be time to be working on plantings for a fall harvest.

I have been so bogged down in the tomato harvest that I have not been paying much attention to anything else. I guess I'd better put on my planning cap and get organized for the fall plantings.

Of course, some rainfall between now and September would be helpful too.

Right now I'm raising a big crop of grasshoppers, but not on purpose.

Dawn

Well, it wasn't a nudge intended for you. LOL I just now noticed someone already commented a week ago bumping the post.

I hear there are some serious grasshopper connoisseurs in the world. Maybe a new internet marketing venture? I could draw up the business plan(s). Diversify, though Chocolate dipped? Fried? Go cheap but triple the shipping. You'll make a killing.

Butterfly nets standing by

LOL

bon

Maybe I needed the nudge. I've been viewing the world through tomato-colored glasses and ignoring everything not directly related to "how to use up all these danged tomatoes".

Grasshoppers are only an irritant most years. Sometimes they get out of control and destroy everything in sight. I had much worse grasshopper damage in 2009 or 2010 than I'm seeing now. It is just that since they can migrate in huge swarms, you never know if what you are seeing at a given point in time is as bad as it is going to get, or if you're going to see twice as many next week as you're seeing now or maybe 10 times as many next month.

Today I endured the ultimate insult. A nasty brown stink bug climbed onto the back of my hand and just sat there while I was picking tomatoes. I had to resist the urge to squash him because I didn't want to have to put up with that stink bug smell on my hand. Instead, I flicked him off my hand with my other hand. Then I came inside. It was bad enough that it was hot and humid, but then to have to put up with having a stink bug using my hand as a sun deck or something. Phooey! Who needs that.

One of the things I love about fall is that the insect pressure really has abated by September.

Geez, I hate stink bugs! Well, I'm glad you're knee deep in tomatoes. I'd be canning them all. Still better than worrying about the fellows in the fields fire-fighting!