I think that proposed USDA Zone Map is still too generous and a few real winters will jolt us all back to reality. Global warming is still a myth that is perpetuated by policial motivation and is junk science at best. The World has gone through cold and warming cycles on its own and we do not have enough historical data because we have only been taking records for about 120 years. I will concede that we have been having quite a few mild winters through out the US, but not enough to jump to the conclusion that some areas are a zone or two warmer than they used to be. I can't believe that Washington, DC is considered a Zone 8 on this map, the same as Columbia, SC! DC is a solid Zone 7 and may have many Zone 8 winters, but once in awhile a Zone 6 cold snap hits to fry lots of plants in the garden.

Virginian you are correct and about the zones they have changed a little bit every decade. I live in zone 10a but we have had 9b temps every so often. I would like to be in a zone 11 with all tropical plants and palms. My wife is from Ecuador and is a zone 11 and the only problem is its hot all the time. But hey I could get used to it as long as I have air-cond.Virginian what type of palms do you grow?

Yes I am ignoring. We can choose to be happy or sad I choose to be happy. Those are some nice palms your growing. I'm not sure what a bulgaria is though. This is one of my favorites.

Is that a Trachycarpus of some kind? Are you going to plant it ins the ground?

Virginian the palm in the pic is a old man palm (coccothrinax crinita)I like trachycarpus also but many of the palms you named I don't see for sale here. Maybe they don't like are climate or the soil or maybe because we have so many other types im not sure. Palmshaun thats funny.

W.I.:

They seemed to be fine last year as long as I kept them mulched and well watered. The Trachys this year have thicker trunks at the base and seem to be replacing lost spears that the winter wind seems to have knocked out eventhough the winter was 8a and mild most of the time. Thankfully single digits and lower are rare and I will take steps to protect them if it gets that cold.

Actually we do know what the climate has done over the past few million years. Ice core samples, tree ring analyses can give a pretty accurate description of past climate changes. If the ice caps did refreeze every thousand years there would be a massive increase in sea level and we know this clearly isnt the case.

If the cars, trucks and factories really had no effect then there should be a constant level of C02 in the atmosphere. A balance would exist between the CO2 emissions from volcanos and other natural sources. However humans are destroying the natural systems that absorb C02 and putting more in. Because of this the level is rising and fast, the concentration of C02 in the atmosphere is expected to double( unless something is done) in the next 50 years.

C02 is a greenhouse gas and any increase in the concentration will increase the overall temperature of Earth.

We THINK we know what the climate has been in the past. While I don't argue tree ring analysis can be a semi-accurate method of calculating recent climatic change, I do find it hard to believe that the same tree can provide insight into millions of years ago. Maybe its accurate, maybe its not. Either way, in my opinion, current scientific findings regarding this topic is only a theoretical explanation.

Most of you should be happy that "global warming" is "occuring". Then you can plant those palms you enjoy without asking 4,000,000 questions on its hardiness. lol

The oceans filter out and photosythisize the excess CO2. Humans can not burn fossil fuels fast enough to raise the levels as a natural event such as volcanos. Your assumption is correct that eventually there would be a balance between volcanic activity and the oceans/forests, but these events are too random to draw that conclusion with certainty. In the last 100 years, there has also been a tremdous increase in volcanic activity around the globe, most of it non life threatening, but it is still adding lots of greenhouse gasses to the atmosphere. Now, having said that it isn't responsible to pollute locally or just clear cut a forest either. The local effects of air pollution and deforestation are not good either and we should strive to prevent them in a reasonable manner. I personally would love it if the Earth was getting warmer from a natural cycle. I would love it if I could grow Zone 8 plants with confidence.

Palmshaun, recent records show ocean tempeartures and glacial recessions have occurred. Fossil records and ice core sampling also give insight into different species distribution. Yes, a study of a tree that is only 100 years old has NO correlation to a history that existed before it was alive.

Global warming is NOT a myth. The debate is in the true tie/explanation of the effect of man in the cyclical temperature "ages" in the past 1000 years. Global warming cannot be stopped, but it can be slowed, etc. Periods of "global warming" existed about 900-1100 years ago and explained crop prosperities in Dark Age Europe; and Ice Ages and minor global changes occurred just as cyclically, whether or not related to volcanic eruptions and atmospheric debris. Understandings of ocean currents, temperatures and occilations also help give insight into such cycles.

Wow, I see I just iterated what Novascotian stated.

Global warming from man's activities is a myth, the math and hard data isn't there to prove it is a result of cars and factories etc. There may however, be a current warming cycle of which we can not control, slow down or stop. poiu, you are correct that changing ocean currents are a HUGE factor. In fact, the last mini ice age in Britain and other parts of Europe and Asia in the 600 ADs was a result of shifting ocean currents. The Gulf Stream it is seemed disappeared and super low temps set in for 20 years. It stopped the Vikings from invading for a time, but did nothing to help with food supplies. In the 1950s two very severe winters in Northern Europe were the result of the Gulf Stream shifting only a few degrees to the West and Iceland and Greenland had the mildest winters up to that point on record. There are so many factors that can make the Earth heat up or cool, but man isn't one of them on a global scale yet. In 100 years it might be, believe me, I don't want to see the rainforest depleted or the air or oceans polluted as it helps nothing. Locally, here in the Washington, DC and Northern Virginia area, our summer air quality gets worse by the year because of the population explosion and just more cars as we have no real industry here. More pavement doesn't help either, but there is now awareness that planting trees is important in new commercial areas. I only wish home builders would leave or replace more of the destroyed trees. In the old days they virtually built your house in the woods, today it looks like it is in an old cornfield. No windbreaks on the house either, oh well, I guess I will have to plant more palms and other trees to make up!

any link to the proposed new map?

here it is

http://www.arborday.org/media/zones.cfm