Did you spray the foliage or the soilmix? 12 hours should be way more than enough time for M-G to work, especially if applied to the leaves. Water soluble fertilizers can start working immediately.

As long as your plants had time for a good long drink, they should be fine. I used M-G for the first time this season last week (none of my plants seemed to be doing much of anything.) I saw a difference in a matter of days. I just gave them another shot today, to make sure it stuck.

first the "proper dosage" is too strong.

second MG is not good for you.

Go organic and eat healthy.

Foliar feeding is the fastest way to feed a plant (but it still needs the volume of nutrients that only roots can provide). Miracle-Gro works great for foliar feeding, as do fish and seaweed preparations, but it's good practice to test your foliar feed spray out on a small portion of a plant first. For Miracle-Gro, I use 1/2 tsp/gal for foliar feeding, sometimes less if the weather's hot. Here are some tips to avoid burning your plants when foliar feeding:

1. Always water well before foliar feeding. There are no exceptions to this rule - if the plant is wilting you could burn or kill it. Water either the day before, or in the morning or early afternoon for evening foliar feeding.

2. Spray in early morning or late evening. Direct sunlight at or soon after foliar feeding can burn the plant. I prefer early morning because then the foliage stays dry at night, lowering risk of disease.

3. Foliar feeding is no substitute for proper soil fertility. It is more like a caffeine buzz. If I know some hot weather is coming, I'll foliar feed the night before so the plants have plenty of nutrients to fuel the boost in photosynthesis.

It's not essential, but I also like to mix the foliar feeding with other spraying. It's less work, and the less the leaves are wet, the less risk of disease. Typically I mix Miracle Gro in with my fungicides, which I apply on a regular schedule.

second MG is not good for you.

hahahalol! Yea- it's plant food. Not for human consumption!

I use all kinds of ferts, MG for toms is great. I use 1 tbs/gal once a week, just like the directions say to. I also use urea 46-0-0, phosphate, greensand, bloodmeal. My garden is what most people just dream of, also use bugbgone and disease control.
BTW- DDT was never proven to cause human death or health probs. Band because of thinning birds egg shells.

One more thing- "folar feeding" is a joke. Does absolutly nothing for the plant. All neutrients are absorbed thru the roots only. Keep your plants as dry as you can to prevent disease. Spraying plant food on vegitation is a waste of your time and ferts.

Thanks for the info guys. koreyk, if I had a choice to use M-G or not I'd choose not to, but I can't exactly unpot my plant, mix in some compost, and put it back. Container gardening pretty much requires additional fertilization.

MG is not the worst thing in the world, especially compaired to pesticides. I think the "worst" thing for you in MG is the metals that are in it.

I tried MG before I started doing everything organically. I got nice looking plants and no tomatoes. I had to stop using it before my plants would fruit. I know other people have had different results.

One of the things MG doesn't do is improve your soil composition. In your case, growing in pots, it doesn't mattera as much.

If you would like to try a very good organic alternative to MG, I recomend fish emulsion. In my experience, it has worked 10 times better than MG ever did for me. One bottle will last you more than the growing season. You also only need to feed every other week because it's organic and doesn't disipate as quickly as MG does.

drtomato - Just because something doesn't kill you strait up doesn't mean it's not bad for you. If DDT can thin birds egg shells and kill other living things, do you really want to eat it?

You can also make up your own liquid fertilizer from dry granular fertilizer. Just toss a handful in a five gallon bucket filled with water and let it steep for a while, stir it up, then ladle some onto the plants. It doesn't have to be Miracle Gro unless you want to. I use Espoma Plant-tone.

I noticed in Home Depot yesterday that they are selling an Organic MG.

Has anyone used it ?

Opinions ?

~ Tom

That's a great idea kubotabx. I initally started using a slow release granulated fertilizer, but at this point it isn't releasing fast enough for the size of the cherry tomato plants. I know M-G isn't the best fertilizer option for tomatoes out there, but I went with what I had around for house plants. I haven't seen fish emulsion or anythign like that in the garden stores near my house, but I bet I can find one somewhere nearby if I look hard enough.

A couple points:

drtomato: Foliar feeding DOES work. Just ask any giant pumpkin grower.

all_organic_justin:

MG has 23 times less arsenic than some of the Espoma products (I think Garden Tone or Plant tone?) Let's not just say "well, there's not enough to matter" because numbers are numbers. MG has less metals than MOST organic fertilizers. If you want to use scare tactics, it works both ways.

There were/are many formulations of MG, at least 4 different ones. Maybe you used the wrong one. The best one for tomatoes is either the Tomatoes version or the 15-30-15 version (I prefer the 15-30-15 early and then the Tomatoes version later after fruitset.) Using the 15-30-15 version early in the season, you will get many more fruits than any organic means. I use lots of compost too, but the compost is less than 1-1-1.

Fish emulsion, except for Neptune's Harvest brand, is proptionally very high in nitrogen, usually 4-5 times as much N as P. Great for growing lettuce! Neptune's Harvest is 2-4-1... much better ratio for tomatoes.

"You also only need to feed every other week because it's organic and doesn't disipate as quickly as MG does."

I don't think this statement is accurate--first, you're talking about 2 very different NPK ratios, like 5-1-1 vs 15-30-15. I won't even get into viscosity differences but show me how 30% phosphorous "dissipates" faster than 1%.

Let's not turn this into an organic vs non-organic thread because koreyk (formerly/a.k.a. organic_nut) spewed rhetoric. The original poster wanted to know if his fertilizer has been absorbed in time.

korney19:

I was not turning it into organic vs non-organic. I described my results with MG, and stated that other people have had different results.

Arsenic is also found in apple seeds. I was also not using scare tactics. I said that I think the "worst" thing for you was the metals in it. I put the word worst in quotes indicating that it's not that bad and it's only bad if you think it is. I wasn't insulting MG or it's failthful users in any way. I'm a firm believer in "whatever works for you" and "whatever you're more comfortable doing".

The listed NPK ratios listed on products are the amounts that are made immediatly available by the fertilizer. The reason organics are always listed as less is becuase they break down slower then synthetics, meaning they last longer. Please see the second paragraph in the link below from NC State coop extension for a reference.

Not every organic sugestion is from a nut. Please calm down.

Here is a link that might be useful: Fertilizer Info

"drtomato: Foliar feeding DOES work. Just ask any giant pumpkin grower."

That's the last person I'd want to talk to. Them people need a life. BTW- the pumpkins the show on tv "Giant Pumpkins" are squash. And what are they good for? Feeding your pigs?
I used to grow hydropontically, not a ounce of soil, all chemicals. Best plants you ever saw "guaranteed".
And to top it off grew in half the normal growing season.
and never a drop of water hit the folage.

Foliar feeding DOES work.
In my experience and opinion it does. I know there is some that have a closed mind on this and won't listen to results. I do controlled tests on everything I try and have noticed a definate change after foliar feeding for certain problems. I'm one who always will give something a chance and not one to bury my head in the sand so I can prove a point.
second MG is not good for you
I would like to see a link to scientific or medical results that state this. I have never and as far as I know none exists.

Wild Forager I would say you should be ok. You can respray in a week. It depends but I normally use at the rate stated on the package.
Great gardening to all. Jay

Sorry Justin, I didn't mean to say that you were turning it into an OG vs non-OG debate... I've just seen many MG threads here over the years and know what become of them!

drtomato, then I guess you've just talked to the last person you'd want to! I grow AG's too. Foliar feeding can be proven with tomatoes quite easily--just let a plant wilt and spray it with a spray bottle without getting the soil/soilless mix/roots wet. If the plant perks up, you know the leaves absorb water or nutrients. It's that simple. I agree you shouldn't get the foliage wet in regards to disease, but the only 2 instances allowed by me, besides natural rainfall, would be foliar feeding and fungicide applications.

drtomato,

Use calcium nitrate instead of urea (46-0-0).

Ammonium forms of nitrogen can cause trouble down the road.

all_organic_justin Quote:
"Not every organic sugestion is from a nut. Please calm down."

rofl!!! My laughter isn't aimed at you justin just that it was hilarious to read. :)

I'm all for organic gardening and when shopping for produce, milk, etc I look to buy that first. This spring when planting my Earth Boxes the instructions call for a stripe of fertilizer before putting the mulch cover on. It said that you could use the "little beaded kind" or organic kind.

Some critter riped the plastic mulch to get at the organic kind so I finished the remaining plantings using the "little beaded" fertilizer and these plantings were left unmolested.

Regardless of my experience I would still recommend organic fertilizer for someone with an inground garden who could mix/scratch it in the first few inches of soil.

"One more thing- "folar feeding" is a joke. Does absolutly nothing for the plant. All neutrients are absorbed thru the roots only. Keep your plants as dry as you can to prevent disease. Spraying plant food on vegitation is a waste of your time and ferts."

Best not to post when you know nothing of the subject at hand.

Try a google search using the terms "foliar feed" and "stomata".

korney19 you got nowhere the last time pressing your "arsenic content of Espoma products" issue. If you want to beat the dead horse again be my guest.

Kubota, don't worry, I won't beat a dead horse, but I won't use it for fertilizer either! I posted the facts already, it's true that some of the Espoma products have 23 times as much arsenic as M-G. I guess if people are so concerned with being organic but fail to see that organics can have much higher heavy metals than manmade ferts, maybe they are just turning a blind eye in denial, or somewhat hypocritical, yet the same people are so concerned with treated lumber, greenhouse gases, etc.

Bottom line is use what works for you, responsibly.

Korney19

No hard fealings from me if there are none from you. There does appear to be a bit of anomosity in the forums between OG and non-OG people.

It appears we have to discussions going on now about foliar feeding and about organics. I searched on foliar feeding, and I found a bunch of sites promoting it. I like the wiki on it even though it has no references. If it were me, and my tomatoe plant was in bad shape, I would do anything that might help it. I would recomend that wild forager foliar feed once, and add some fert to the soil. It would also help to prun off any leaves that are dead. I don't really see where if it's done right that foliar feeding is going to hurt anything.

For the arsenic discussion:
I have not used the espoma products except for blood meal from them. I checked their site, and found no reference to arsenic being in either garden or plant tone. When I googled it, the only references that I found were forum postings from various sites (including this thread). Do you have any references/publications you could provide that would show this to be factual? I would be interested in reading more about it.

Here is a link that might be useful: wiki on Foliar Feeding

Yes Korney, and again as before, you are making a distinction without a difference. That's why you have to dismiss the "there's not enough to matter" issue -- because in fact, there is not enough arsenic in either product to matter. Calling attention to that simple fact blows your whole argument right out of the water, just like it did the last time. No wonder you want to avoid it. You are comparing two miniscule numbers which are at the levels of naturally occuring arsenic in soil. The levels of at both are at trace levels far below the industry and government standards for arsenic content and far below any state's guidelines as well. Various people pointed this out to you last time around too, so either you did not grasp it last time, or you are intentionally repeating the failed logic again, which is being disingenuous. All you can do is repeat "but this number is 23 times that number".

I'll just post the numbers and anybody can make their own decisions. I tried as html but wasn't able to get it to format correctly, so converted to jpegs.

The metals are on the right. Look at the Arsenic, Mercury & Lead #'s.

{{gwi:1361702}}
{{gwi:1361703}}
{{gwi:1361704}}

Justin, these were from the Washington State Dept of Agriculture site, below.

Kubota, I'm not gonna push this issue, I'm just posting the #'s, but I do find it strange for people to just write them off without any concern, even if they are within legal limits. For all the OG & non-OG posters, if it doesn't matter to you, then please never again ask things like, "Is treated lumber OK" or similar questions about chemicals in fertilizers that are approved.

It's ironic that people go to great extremes to grow organically, even sometimes throwing money on certified organic seeds if they aren't looking to get "govt. certified", and NOT care about arsenic, mercury and lead in their organic fertilizers and manures. Yet, they come here and call manmade products "poisons." I think the numbers speak for themselves. And by the way, I don't think these Espoma products are certified organic either, though OGers often use them. According to bigdaddyj's theory of 100% or nothing, then it looks like a lot of self-proclaimed OGers are not truly OGers!

Here is a link that might be useful: WSDA

Here's the other thread kubota referred to, it also has a comparison of numbers for Espoma Tomato-Tone vs Miracle-Gro for Tomatoes...

Here is a link that might be useful: Is Miracle Grow Fertilizer alright?

!!WARNING!! DON'T EAT MIRACLE GRO OR ESPOMA!!!!! IT CONTAINS ARSENIC.

AND SO DOES YOUR WELL WATER.

-BUT HERES THE GOOD NEWS-
The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has established a new arsenic standard for drinking water at 10 parts per billion, which is intended to protect an additional 13 million Americans.

What is Arsenic?
Arsenic (As) is a naturally-occurring element in the earthÂs crust, and traces of arsenic can be found throughout the environment. Arsenic in soil may originate naturally, and past human activities may have added to these levels in some areas. Historically, the heaviest use of arsenic in this country has been as a pesticide. The current predominant use of arsenic is as a wood preservative. In ground water, arsenic occurs primarily in two forms, As+3 (arsenite) and As+5 (arsenate). Organic arsenicals are not known to occur at significant levels in ground water. Arsenic may change chemical form in the environment, but it does not degrade.

ARSENIC- is all around us, deal with it!!!!!!!

Good one korney19 -- glad you posted that. Now I will post the arsenic metals limit for Espoma Garden-tone 4-6-6. The limit of heavy metals is set by law in Washington, Oregon and California -- the strictest states in the country when it comes to agricultural safety -- and 15 other states. All these states set the same limit. The limit is based on scientific and industry guidelines and is a complex formula -- and applies to all fertilizers for sale in these 18 states, be they organic or inorganic. It is a scientific formula that is computed based the percentages of all the nutrients and micro-nutrients in the product.

The upper limit arsenic in fertilizers with the composition of Espoma Garden-tone is 153 ppm.

Garden-tone contains 9 ppm.

Garden-tone contains 17 TIMES LESS ARSENIC concentration than the upper limit for arsenic content in a fertilizer with that chemical composition.

And that is according to the strictest standard in use in the United States. So before you go on trying to impugn Garden-tone, be aware the facts are not on your side here.

The fertilizer industry guidelines and the law in 18 states (including the strictest states) determines safe metal limits by a formula that takes into account the composition of that fertilizer. You cannot blindly compare the raw parts per million of one product versus another. That would be a meaningless number. You need to plug in the actual values for each of the nutrients into the spreadsheet and compare the computed result with the actual number.

EPA standard at 10 parts per billion is an order of magnitude lower than Espoma's 9 parts per MILLION.

That's potentially troubling. Does aresenic get concentrated in the tomatoes? What is the typical arsenic content of soil? I don't know enough about this to be concerned, but it certainly merits further investigation.

No. Please read what drtomato posted. Read the whole statement. The standard is for water-soluble arsenic, not insoluble arsenic.

"Organic arsenicals are not known to occur at significant levels in ground water."

They are insoluble compounds that do not form ions.

korney19, thank you for providing the link. It looks like they have a pretty complete database and I will keep that link for future reference. It's always good to have information like that.

Quote: self-proclaimed OGers are not truly OGers!

I realize that is a small part of what you said. I would like to point out that Espoma does not say garden tone is an organic product. (again...I never used it) The packaging states "Rich in Natural Organics". I would agree with you that this product is not 100% organic. It is a tough distinction though, and I think some of your comments are a little harsh on OGers. The government does a very good job of giving loop-holes in advertising of organic products. There is a distinction between 100 percent organic, organic, and made with organic ingredients. (See USDA organic program) Products labeled organic are only required to be 95% organic. Someone purchasing a product labeled organic probably doesn't know that it is not 100% organic. Take what you want from that, but the government doesn't think organic is 100%. But, that's why we have open forums so we can help eachother find information.

I'm rambling, but anyway, I realize your frustration is more aimed towards your discussion with kubotabx2200 (and I see it's not the first time), but please be carefull with your generalization and steriotyping of all OGers.

Espoma does have some good organic products. I'm not trying to be hard on them or anyone else. But, they do not claim that garden tone/plant tone is an organic product.

I'm done rambling now :)

Justin, I have nothing against organic gardening. I use more organics than inorganics myself. But that quote was out of context, the whole sentence was:

"According to bigdaddyj's theory of 100% or nothing, then it looks like a lot of self-proclaimed OGers are not truly OGers!"

That means that if it's all or nothing, some OGers would be disqualified for using some of the Espoma products. Did they know that? And are they still OGers by definition?

He stated (in summary) that you can't be partially organic, and I believe in that other thread I said something similar:

"If someone wants to grow organic, I don't really know if they can only go part way and say they grow organic but use water soluble fertilizers every now & then, or "only when an emergency" or something similar."

Maybe the terminology is wrong... maybe it should be, "I try to grow using organic principles or methods." Maybe we should just discount those claiming to be organic gardeners as not knowing they are doing something inorganic along the way... for example, not using certified organic seeds, using ProMix or any seed starting soilless mix containing wetting agents (most have one), using Garden-Tone or Plant-Tone, using M-G even just once, etc. These would all break the rules of 100% organic gardening. Maybe we shouldn't use the term so loosely and leave it for those only Agency Certified...

Just in case you might including me by any chance, I am not a self proclaimed organic gardener, I am a self proclaimed gardener.

Actually, I was the one that pointed out in another thread that Garden-tone is not completely organic. Plant-tone on the other hand is 100% organic.

As for bigdaddy's posturing about who is or isn't and "organic gardener" on his far-fetch "100% organic rule" that he applies to everyone else but himself, I already challenged him earlier today in another thread, and asked him to clarify whether or not he is Organically Certified as per USDA standards. That sort of labelling he can keep to himself as far as I am concerned.

To actually get certified organic looks like quite the process. To be certified 100% would mean you have to use all 100% organic material. Even if you used cofffe grounds in your compost pile, was the coffee organic? 100% is quite intense if you follow the definition and guidelines word for word. Some people do get a little carried away I must admit.

But, it does appear we all have a similar view, and our number one goal is good healthy fruits and vegetables. With that said, we can agree to disagree on the little points.

As for me, I don't claim to be 100% as I'm sure I have inadvertently done something against "da rules". For example, if I grow a tomatoe from a non-certifed organic seed then so be it. If I grow it organically and save the seeds year after year then I guess to me it has gotten my personal organic certification.

I'm rambling again.....I have that tendancy.

Have a good weekend friends and happy gardening!

Wow,

Another thread gone to the organic vs. inorganic dogs!

I guess it's like religion; people will fight and disagree over it forever.

The speed in which it absorbed depends mainly on weather and how much water/nutrients the plant needs at the time of feeding.

Kubo I agree with you. I try to grow as healthy as I possibly can and still control pests and diseases. I use very few non organic products but will when needed. I respect others views on how they have found tomatoes grow best for them. But when someone says or implies I'm killing myself, friends and family when I use Daconil, bluewater or some other product that is a matter of opinion. And should be stated as such. Unless they can find independent documented proof of such which in most cases when called out they fail to do. Like the ones I asked to do so above. I enjoy the good discussions on here and just wish they didn't have to revert to false statements people are unwilling to back up. For myself I know most of which to ignore but some new member may not.
Happy gardening to all. Jay