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chad_la

denton county help

19 years ago

have a problem i hope someone has an answer to. i live in southeast denton county. (the worst of the north texas alkali clay soil) ive had moderate luck with gardening in what used to be my flower beds. i want to do most of my backyard into a veggie garden but cant handle the expense of 2000 sq ft of raised beds. has anyone tried to use a tiller in this alkali clay? im looking to buy a good rear tine tiller and thinking of bringing in a couple of 3 yard dumps of mulch to till in to this clay. i cant afford enough mulch and supporting timber to build a twelve inch raised bed this big. my question is that have any of you done something similar and if so can i expect even modest results from my efforts?

im originally from louisiana and never had to till up this old nasty clay. is moist / damp soil easier to till up or should i put the boots on and do it when its sloppy muddy?

any advice or tips ill be most grateful.

thanks...

chad

Comments (14)

  • 19 years ago

    chad,
    I'm over at Justin. Similar clay. I think you want the soil moist, but not wet. I think you would have a doughball on your tines if you tried it too wet. If it is too dry, it will be like tilling asphalt.

    I just tilled my beds (Good luck, and ......... get some help!! ; - )
    J.D.

  • 19 years ago

    I have a heavy clay too. Mulch mulch and more mulch and you'll love it (well, at least be able to grow fine in it).

  • 19 years ago

    You will need to water at sunset, then till in the morning. The soil will need to be moist, but not wet. It is still very hard work, and once you do all that, you will find that weed seed will stick to it in a second, so expect much weeding after tilling.

    Veggies will probably do fine, in normal conditions. This year, it has been soooooo wet, that almost everything is complaining, if not dying.

    Good luck.

  • 19 years ago

    We gardened in have gumbo clay in the wettest county in Texas. To say the least, it was impossible. Raised beds were the only answer.
    If you don't mind not doing traditional row gardens you can do box beds. I added to mine over a period of 3 years until my husband built a fence around it to stop me.
    This was the most productive weed free gardening I had ever done. I could not can all we grew
    Step at a time!
    Gail

  • 19 years ago

    Mulch would be great, but compost will soften that soil so much faster. I'm assuming you have already killed/removed grass, etc. from where you want your beds. Just laying down 3-4 inches of compost and letting it sit on the soil for a few weeks will soften it enough to get a tiller through the clay. Just don't try to till when the clay is real wet or you will have a sticky mess on your tines. After you get everything tilled, then put the mulch on top. Also, look for places where you can get free compost. The city I live in has a free compost program, so check out Denton or neighboring towns to see if they have a similar program. You might also find someone with a farm that has well rotted horse or cow manure mixed with hay that they will want to give away.

  • 19 years ago

    Chad,

    Can't help with the clay soil advice, but you have some really good replies on that. However, if you are looking for a good rear-tine tiller, may I suggest an Ariens? We have had ours for over 20 years, and it has gone through everything from gravelly soil in upstate NY to semi-clay in Central Texas without a complaint. We change the plugs when necessary and hose off the tines--this is low maintenance! You may want to check out the tool shed site on GardenWeb to see what others have to suggest. Also, you may not have to till--there is something called the "lasagna method" of building beds without breaking the surface soil. Don't know anything about it, but I bet somebody else on this site does! Good luck, and enjoy your vegetables.

  • 19 years ago

    marlingardener is right. That is how I made most of my planting beds - by lasagne gardening. It is a whole lot easier on the back. You can do a search here in this forum to find out more about lasagne gardening since I've seen this topic come up several times. There is a lot of good advice out there. Even Dottie Woodson, Tarrant County Horticultural Agent, recommends lasagne gardening.

  • 19 years ago

    I live in Tarrant County (Foat Wuth) and have a solid clay backyard. I am a third vote for lasagne gardening because you will not kill yourself trying to turn clay into something else. It's SO much easier.

  • 19 years ago

    thanks everyone for the replies, lots of good information here. being from louisiana, im used to the river silt black gumbo mud thats acidic not alkali. that stuff will grow anything. here is another story.

    ill probably go with one of the bigger "troy built" tillers. ive had one before and am happy with them. i am however open to conflicting suggestions as to why not. ive already got a large compost pile going and in addition will add at least six yards of whats called "growers mix" and a couple hundred pounds of pelletized sulphur. ill till all this in in the fall and let it set till spring.

    ive tried some no till areas in the yard and the plants did fine till they got big enough to hit the clay underneath. veggies tolerate acidic conditions far better than alkali. ive not applied glyphosate to the area in question yet altho that will happen soon. depends on exactly when we get the tiller. saving up for a vacation right now.

    weeds im not too worried about. call me lazy but i use a squirt bottle full of roundup or diquat. use a piece of cardboard as a shield to keep it of the plants.

    thanks for the information.

    chad

  • 19 years ago

    I'm over in Lake Dallas and the soil is very rich in iron here. Other than hauling in some sandy loam you might contact the Denton County Extension agent. I contacted him a while back concerning some possible poison ivy on my property. He was very helpful. He will probably arrange for you to send off a soil sample to Texas A&M. They will get back with you with the results and their recommendations. Good luck.

  • 19 years ago

    Good grief Gail! Your garden is georgeous! WOW

  • 19 years ago

    I want Gail to come do my beds for me! My plants look like a wild mess all the time.

  • 19 years ago

    Thanks, guys. this is the old place in Jasper where I had 14 killing acres,way too many flowers but enough sun to grow and enough shade to stand it in the 100% humidity.

    Now we are on a city lot in beautiful Azalea/Rose capital of Tyler in the old part of town. Way too much shade,not much space but we have had time to go to the movie more in 4 months that we had in 15 years! Love to garden but that place was killing me.

    I do enjoy looking at the pictures,though. Raised beds are a blessing if you aren't interested in intensive weed care. Gail

  • 19 years ago

    I vote for lasagne, no till.

    We started a new bed last fall, had bermuda grass problems this year but Roundup seems to have gotten that under control. This is a xeriscape lantana bed for butterflies and hummingbirds. Will add host plants for the cats so the butterflies do not have to travel far to lay their eggs.

    Couple of months ago we added more lawn to this bed and now have some grass poking through. Am using clear plastic to solarize this grass.

    I love to sit in the shade and watch the activity in this bed...so relaxing.

    Happy Gardening,
    Peggy

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