well ask the people who are thinking of redoing it. they must know the parents. or better probably have the parents or close to them.

do you know what company used to produce the seeds and sell them. there has been a lot of seed company consolidations and they dump most seed lines. everything is disappearing very fast now. soon there will not be regional strains. only national strains. and it will all be sold by one company Monsanto.

From: http://cuke.hort.ncsu.edu/cucurbit/wehner/vegcult/tomatoai.html

Avalanche (20-St-4, STEP 382) - Breeder: University of Missouri, Columbia. Vendor: Standard Seed and Archias, Sedalia, Missouri. Parentage: Mozark x Glamour. Characteristics: F1 hybrid, plant indeterminate, good foliage cover; fruit red, large, uniform ripening; very prolific; tolerant to radial and concentric cracking. Resistance: fusarium wilt and gray leaf spot. Adaptation: midwestern, eastern and southern United States. Amer. Veg. Grower, Dec. 1963.

"... but to say that Monsanto will control tomato seed is really a reach, as I see it." [Carolyn]

Carolyn,

I agree with everything you said in that post. And I think you mean that Monsanto will never own every company that breeds or distributes seed, and I agree with that too.

But "control" of tomato seed may be a different thing altogether some day since Monsanto seems to be getting their way with Terminator seeds. Did you get your SSE Summer Edition yet? There's an article in there updating recent legal successes Monsanto is having over the more sane humans who would like to see Terminator banned.

Yes, there may always be little guys breeding hybrids and perpetuating open pollinates ... but will they be able to market their seeds in a world where there's no demand if Monsanto and other giant monopolies destroy the small guy's market through GM technology or possibly the development and release of viruses that only their cultivars can resist? Okay, call me paranoid, but I don't put anything past a corporation that would develop and release Terminator seeds.

Bill

Boy, did I open a can of worms or what?

OK I found the Glamour seed, Thanks Carolyn! Now all I need is Mozark.

Oh yea, what is terminator seed? never mind, I'll google it! LOL

This seed will self-destruct in 5 seconds... :(

I really like seed saving. Funky smell and all. ;)

Now all I need is Mozark.

You aren't going to find it. Sigh.

Larry also posted about this at another site and just this AM he gave more info from a place he contacted where they said about the only way to get Avalanche is to dehybridize, it , although the person said reverse hybridization and Larry wasn't sure of what that meant.

So I did a long post sharing with him what that was and how several other of the early hybrids have diappeared and dehybridization of several of them has already been accomplished as long as one has some F1 seed to start with.

Carolyn

OK, Humor me please! And don't laugh If these are stupid questions.

I have done a little more net research and found the following:

Avalanche (20-St-4, STEP 382) - Breeder: University of Missouri, Columbia. Parentage: Mozark x Glamour.

Glamour - Breeder: Birds-Eye Hort. Res. Lab., Parentage: Burgess Crackproof x Sioux.

Mozark - Breeder and vendor: Missouri Agric. Expt. Sta., Columbia. Parentage: Earliana, Lycopersicon pimpinellifolium, Break-O-Day, Bison, Greater Baltimore.

Sioux - Breeder: Dept. of Hort., Nebraska Agr. Expt. Sta., Parentage: Stokesdale x Allred.

Stokesdale - Breeder and vendor: Francis C. Stokes Co., Vincetown, N.J. Parentage: outcross from Stokesdale.

Allred - Breeder: North Dakota Agric. Expt. Sta., Fargo. Parentage: uniform color line x Bison.

Burgess Crack Proof - Breeder and vendor: Burgess Seed & Plant Co., Galesburg, Michigan. Parentage: unknown;

I left off some other info available on the cuke.hort.ncsu.edu website because it took too much space.

Here are the questions:

1. Glamour is available from seed saver companies, how can it be a hybrid?

2. Mozark has been wiped off the face of the earth, but I can find sources for the parents listed above...but there are (5) parents????? How do I do that?

More questions later, I feel like I'm writing a book already!

Yeah- can of worms alright - Googled terminator seeds and found this!

http://www.banterminator.org/

Ok, a little humor... When two people from (fill in your favorite rural state) get married, are they still cousins? :-) Hybrids are crosses of two or more parents and may include recrosses. I'll let someone else tackle the Galmour SSE issue, but I would suspect F-2 or unused F-1 seed.

Larry,

I doubt you could reproduce Mozark even though all its progenitors are available (I think in fact from Victory), because even if you crossed each set of parents in the proper order, there most likely were some grow-outs and selections done along the way in the original process. In other words, I doubt the breeders simply crossed each resulting F1 with another F1, and I know when they got to the final F1, they grew it out and selected "Mozark" at some post-F1 point, otherwise it wouldn't have been a stable OP inbred line.

Bill

Larry -- Glamour is OP. It's a stabilized cross between Burgess Crackproof and Sioux, according to the PlantFiles entry.

I thought Keith had Mozark in 2002?

Thanks for all the input from all. I guess I could try to breed Mozark and hope for the best. I am an engineer not a horticulturist and as you can see, spelling aint my strongest attribute, but with that in mind, here are a few more questions:

1. I take it that stabilization occurs when you "inbreed" for a few generations as long as the resulting plants maintain the attributes of the parents?

2. Is there any "rule-of-thumb" about how long (# of generations) this stabilization could take?

3. Korney19 - Who is Keith? Can I email him? This would be a whole lot easier if I could secure some Mozark.

1. I take it that stabilization occurs when you "inbreed" for a few generations as long as the resulting plants maintain the attributes of the parents?

No, inbreeding is not part of the picture, really. You save seeds from the F1 hybrid, now the F2 seeds, you sow those and make selections for whatever it is you're looking for as in resembling it. You take any one selection, save seeds and that's your F3 seed. You sow seed, grow those plants and find the one closest to the one you selected for and save seed, now the F4 seeds.

At each generation the genes are segregating and so at each generation you'll see different kinds of plants and fruit, usually.

You keep selecting and saving seed and growing out until ALL seeds give rise to the same plants and fruits and at that time it's genetically dehybridized to the OP state and you can name it what you want to.

So that's how you'd dehybridize Avalanche if you had the F1 seeds.

As for Glamour, yes, there are two parents and they were crossed to form an F1 hybrid, but back then hybrid seed was not sold and what they did was to dehybridize the initial F1 and look for the plants that had fruits/plant habits that had the traits that they had expected or hoped to get based on the parents' traits for which they were selected.

2. Is there any "rule-of-thumb" about how long (# of generations) this stabilization could take?

Dehybridization can take anywheres from 4 to 10 generations based on the specific traits being dehybridized as to how close on the chromosome the genes are and other considerations.

3. Korney19 - Who is Keith? Can I email him? This would be a whole lot easier if I could secure some Mozark

I'm not Mark, but Keith posts here as Hortist. Just go to the search box at the bottom of this first page and enter Hortist and his posts should pop up and then you can e-mail him off his page. Click on the My Page next to his name.

I've found that not always does the GW mail go thru so if you don't hear from Keith in a week or so let me know at cmale@aol.com and I can give you his actual addy.

I'm very surprised that Keith would have Mozark. I did check Glenn Drowns listings who does list many older commercial heirlooms and no luck there. I also checked some back issues of SSE Yearbooks but haven't checked them all.

And I agree with Bill who noted above that even if you do have the parents of Mozark there's no way you can duplicate Mozark b'c of what I told you above about crossing two OP parents to get the hybrid and then dehybridizing it.

At least with Starpak , that Harris early hybrid I wanted, I knew that if I had both parents I could make the cross and get the F1 hybrid Starpak. But you haven't grown Mozark so have no idea of what traits to look for.

I have one parent of Big Boy and by dehybridization of the hybrid Big Boy I have maybe 50% of the other parent but if you look at most of the early hybrids still listed in the NCSU list you'll NEVER see the parents listed if the variety is still being sold as F1 seed, since anyone could get the parents and create the F1 seed.

I hope this helps.

Carolyn

Well, I got my grubby hands on some Mozark seed. It's very old, but the fellow who sent it to me says he got 50% germination within a week with only bottom heat.

I'm gonna test germinate some over the next week or so and hope I can hold the rest of it until next spring for a grow-out for fresh seed.

Bill

BUMP to ask Larry if he ever got Mozark seeds ...

Larry,

I tried to germinate 100 seeds in September on a heating pad and only got mildew after 4 weeks.

I tried again in October ... zip.

Then in December, I tried another trick ...

I soaked 100 seeds in diluted Liptons tea (from a bag) with a little bitty dab of fish emulsion. I put the container in the refrigerator for 24 hours, then rinsed off the seeds really well under cold water in a tea strainer and folded them up in a soggy paper towel inside a Ziplock for about 5 days.

Then I wrapped that packet into a couple more dry paper towels to get the moisture down to something reasonable and put them on the mantle behind an old clock where they'd stay about 65 - 70 degrees.

Well, long story short ... I was about to toss them out this morning because I'd checked them twice over two weeks (last time I checked was two days ago) and nothin' happening.

I unwrapped the packet this morning before tossin' them, and WOW! 70 of 100 seeds had germinated with one already having burst it's shell and opened up two cots.

I planted 20 of them in some potting mix this morning.

It remains to be seen if I can find a greenhouse to winter them in or try and repeat the germination in March.

By the way, these Mozark seeds were sent from the University of Missouri and were found in an envelope marked "1964."

Bill

Bill - I don't know about Larry, but I could use a few Mozark seeds, or a lead for them, or a plant....you get the idea. Any chance we could work something out?

Also a general plea for help, I am trying to locate a source for Mocross seeds. My grandmother used to grow this variety (or one of them) but she always just found plants at the market. I am hoping to grow them for her this year, but can't find seed. I did find two listings in NCSU:
MoCross Supreme Hybrid - Breeder: University of Missouri, Columbia. Parentage: 12-St-9 x K146. Characteristics: F1 hybrid, early red-fruited stake type, very prolific; heavy foliage. Resistance: fusarium wilt. Mo. Veg. News., Oct. 1959. 1961.

MoCross Surprise Hybrid - Breeder: University of Missouri, Columbia. Parentage: Mozark x Sioux (Early Red). Characteristics: F1 hybrid, early, prolific, uniform ripening, resistant to radial cracking; heavier foliage than Sioux. Resistance: fusarium wilt. Adaptation: midwestern United States. Mo. Veg. News, Oct. 1959. 1960.

Any help would be great. Thanks everybody.

T-Jim,

I'd be happy to send you a few seeds ... like maybe a hundred or so. As I described above, germinating them may be iffy. I got lucky on my third try and only after soaking them in diluted tea and fish emulsion for a day and then leaving them sit in a damp paper towel for two weeks. It may take longer depending on the temperature. They may not germinate at all as my first two batches did not.

Anyway, I can't find any "MoCross" either and suspect they are a formerly available hybrid. When did you or your grandmother last see them?

I think you'll only be able to obtain MoCross Surprise by crossing Mozark and Sioux yourself ... or have someone else do it if you can get the Mozark germinated this year. Then you'd have MoCross Surprise seeds for next year.

This is a very strange coincidence since just before seeing your message posted up, I had sent an email to SSE asking about something in the 2006 SSE Yearbook listed as Avalanche, which is the name of the formerly available hybrid cross of Mozark X Glamour that started this thread.

I asked if the Avalanche listed as SSE tomato #1347 is an open pollinated derivative of the original Avalanche hybrid from University of Missouri.

Okay, so how are we gonna hook up. The last several people I suggested to email me either did not or the email did not go through Garden Web's system. I can't post up my email forwarding address from another tomato forum, because I've already received one warning from Garden Web master regarding posting links to "competing" forums.

I don't really want to post up my PO Box or personal email ...

Try emailing me via my Garden Web personal info page and see what happens. If I don't get your email, maybe you should contact the Webmaster and ask why.

Anyhow ... I'd like to see somebody grow these Mozarks out if they're gonna germinate. Right now I have three tiny seedlings growing on my windowsill at work and several more lookin' like maybe they're deadheads ... dried out a little over the long Christmas holiday weekend. I tossed the other 50 or so sprouts out because I really wasn't set up to go just yet.

Bill

Bill,

Email sent, did you get it?

Oh, I have never seen Mozark or Mocross, at least not since I started to pay attention to the plants we were growing. (about 15 years ago) Not sure when Grandma last grew them, but she is 87 and still gardens (flowers mostly, she ceded the veggies to me about 10 years ago)!

Tomato Jim,

No, I haven't received your email yet.

I went to your page and noticed you don't have an email link activated.

If you would activate your Garden Web email option at your profile page, then I could send you an email with my contact information.

Meanwhile, I've sent myself an email from my Garden Web page to test if it sends and how long it takes to arrive.

I don't know what's happened to the Garden Web email option lately. I used to get emails via Garden Web ... lately nothing!

Bill

I have some original Avalanche seed that I bought in 2000. I am a grower and have been using it sparingly since. I bought 5000 seeds and have been sowing 600 or so to sell to my regular customers. I to have been trying to find another source too. Someone else also mentioned the Mocross varities which we also grew up untill about 1994 when i could no longer find seed, another one that I have been looking for since 1989 is Pink Gormet. Most of these where introduced by UM columbia by Dr. Lambreth, he also introduced the short lived but very good conquest. If anyone comes across any of these varities let me know. I have a greenhouse operation in southwest Missouri.

Leaky,

Do you have a Web site for your greenhouse operation?

Do you have an email address for your commercial operation?

Do you ship tomato plants?

Any other contact info?

Bill

No I do not have a site yet.
Fausett Greenhouses Inc.
898 Baxter Stret
Neosho, Mo 64850
Growers of Quality Plants Since 1972
417-451-5369
gfausett@cebridge.net

I could ship you plants. I am a second generation grower and am really looking for Mozark seed to cross with glamour and souix to keep Avalanche and Mocross going. I am also looking for Show-me tomato and Pink Gourmet tomato. I have the space to grow and cross these tomatos. I have about 1200 Avalanche seeds that I am using a few each year 400 or so a year for my die hard customers. We use to grow several hundred flats of Avalanche each year and many flats of show me. Any help locating these would be great.

Bill, Sorry I have been out of pocket for a bit, kinda crazy with the holidays. You can try to email my work account james.taylor.skoh[at]statefarm.com. Thanks, Jim

Leaky, If you get mozark plants (or MoCross) I'll buy!

Bump to update ...

Okay, got decent germination on Mozark seeds on a few tries.

Ended up distributing several seedlings but haven't followed up on how other folks are progressing.

Also distributed seeds to a handful of people in other states, but also haven't heard back with any details.

Mine are very healthy, bushy, and loading up with small green tomatoes. While Mozark is billed as determinate, it has outgrown some of my indeterminates in height at this point, but indeed is bushier and I have to prune it some to keep it under control.

I'm trying really hard to get a cross between Mozark and Glamour to produce some Avalanche seeds, but it's not been very successful.

First of all, the Mozark produces way more blossoms than the Glamour, so I'm using the Mozark as the mother plant. Besides, that's the way the cross was stated in NCSU Cultivar List ... Mozark x Glamour. But the Mozark stamen is so fragile that I either have broken or bruised it on every attempt. I think I may have one or two that took ... but they don't look real good yet. If they don't take this week, I'm going reciprocal Glamour x Mozark on my next tries.

Side notes:

Glamour is not exhibiting as tall a growth habit as the Mozark even though Glamour is billed as indeterminate and Mozark as determinate.

Mozark is producing way more blossoms and setting more fruit than Glamour.

Both have very similar foliage patterns and leaf shapes. Both are extremely bushy and give great foliage cover.

Both have very similar, nearly identical, fruit shape with a clear, pale green color and no green shoulders (yet).

Both varieties flower, set fruit, and enlarge fruit at nearly identical timelines. Both set fruit well (when left alone to their own devices).

Glamour is about 3.5 feet tall and Mozark is 4 feet tall at this point. They both appear to be candidates for 6 foot cage or stake height and both appear to be good candidates for a tall Florida Weave, if that is your preference.

Questions:

Has anyone else got observations about Mozark or Glamour?

Is anyone else growing the seeds I sent out? If so, can you share some information, please.

I'd be particularly interested whether anyone is having success with Mozark x Glamour crossing for Avalanche seeds.

Bill

Okay, after my comments about Mozark in the post just above, I decided to take a closer look and went out to the garden.

Most of the Mozark branches terminate at the third blossom cluster. I found one branch terminating with the fourth cluster and one branch terminating at the second cluster. However all the rest I examined terminated at the third cluster of blossoms. And it sends out a healthy side shoot at every leaf crotch above the first blossom set.

Glamour on the other hand has not terminated a single growing tip at this time, so it appears to be the indeterminate partner in the Avalanche F1 (which also is said to be indeterminate).

Bill

Re: Avalanche and Mozark

I am about to put my foot in my mouth so please bear with me!

For Avalanche, cuttings may be made from stem tips/axils and kept in insect-proof facilities to minimize viral transmission and treated to reduce bacterial foliar/vascular diseases should that become necessary.

At an even higher level of complexity, meristems can be cultured in conditions believed to 'cure' them of many pathogenic viruses, and helthy plantlets infinitely multiplied with relatively few mutations.

Tomato lends itself to both simple cuttings and stem tip culture with ease. Even thin-layer culture of the pedicels, the individual flower stalks, easily give whole normal true-to-type plants with very low virus or subviral titer.

So once one true-to-name plant has been found, if there is enough enthusiasm or a viable market, it is not difficult to propagate it vegetatively by these methods. A community college lab should be able to accomplish this as a special project, with little or no cost and commercial facilities are well established.

All of this is perfectly well known by everybody here, which is why i say i am going to put my foot in my mouth, because i am sure i am missing something obvious!

The same applies for Mozark. In fact, a germinating seed or 5 is sufficient and better for culture. In this way, cultivars like Moreton Hybrid that may have exceeded their 20 year patent protection [to be on the safe side!]may also be propagated, pursuant to legal advice.

As mentioned, the general expense is very reasonable, provided there are sufficient buyers for the seedlings, say at $3-4/plant(on site??). This includes the nursery owner's profit. Comments would be welcome.

gautam

That's fine, but I'm not set up for cloning and I am set up for growing from seed. Seeds can be stored over winter with ease and shipped for 41 cents minimum plus the cost of packaging. I'm sure if I were into cloning as much as you, I would have the same opinions and suggestions as you have.

Bill

Right. I was speaking about the gentleman with the nursery facing a dwindling stock of seeds but a recurring demand for Avalanche. Contracting with a commercial facility might be one possible solution, especially if he is able to corner or grow a national/larger market for this cultivar.[Publicity is no bad thing!]

Even without tissue culture and all that, as a nurseryman skilled in trade practices and possessing trade channels, simply multiplying healthy cuttings, as is done with poinsettias or certain New Guinea impatiens, either in-house or contracted out, is certainly extremely viable from a commercial point of view against the day when the seeds run out.

g

G,

Okay, I missed you initial point there ... sorry.

Anyway, if you're speaking to Mr. Faucett, he's one of the folks I sent the old Mozark seeds to earlier in the winter. I'm hoping he has more luck with crossing for Avalanche than I have thus far ... and was hoping he might report success.

Bill

The problem with crossing is that at some time a x b gave c, but only after selection from a large population and stabilization, maybe even selfing for n generations. That is how crosses were done and cultivars released.

So, if someone crosses a x b today, he will get another population, call it P2007, that will exhibit significant variation and a range of plant types, and most importantly, a range of yield potentials and phenotypic plasticities that may not generally become evident with the facilities available to a single individual. We are talking of crosses and screening upto approximately 25,000 F1 progeny to derive sufficiently worthwhile evidence for heterobeltiosis in relatively few instances.

Why so many progeny? Because the parental lines are not sufficiently inbred, the heterotic effects are not guaranteed to be evident for each cross ---- there are NO tester lines.

For these reasons, and several others, it becomes necessary to preserve proven genetic combinations intact, or as intact as Mother Nature and her play allows.

A given pedigree does not reveal a fraction of the effort that goes into developing a variety for release. It merely states the initial conditions.

g

G,

You input is well regarded. While it's true, due to my limited growing space, I am among those small scale hobby gardeners who are unable to maintain truly broad breeding lines with which to make crosses, I still intend to achieve Avalanche hybrid by crossing Mozark with Glamour.

Fortunately, I have several hundred Mozark seeds from the University of Missouri, and I assume they come from an extensive patch of tomatoes and provide sufficient genetic material representing Mozark. Likewise, I am using Glamour from a commercial source (Stokes) and feel confident it too will provide sufficient genetic material for my purpose ... to obtain a cross yielding Avalanche F1 seed.

My experience thus far this year tells me I should plant an entire raised bed next year with nothing but Mozark and Glamour for my purpose ... but that still will be maybe only 10 plants of each ... and I'll probably toss in a couple of Sioux to enable an attempt at MoCross Surprise as well.

Again, your suggestions and information are well taken, but I don't have the facilities or desire to overwinter clones. However, it seems to me with regard to selection of traits, the same applies to the parental line plants I'd take the clones from as applies to the plants I take the seeds from ... and my growing space is limited either way. Also remember, I'm not intending to grow out the Avalanche hybrid, only to produce F1 seed.

Bill

Bill,

As a hobbyist, you are doing fine and there is no constraint as to whatever you might attempt. My one concern, and it is a niggling one, lay with any future offering of Avlanche for sale, say by Mr. Fausett.

In that case, I would prefer, and indeed would only be comfortable, if the plants had been vegetatively propagated from true-to-name mother plants [for many of the reasons stated earlier]. As a nursery business, overwintering, space, insect/viral infection and similar issues would not be a concern for him.

What i want to stress, without inadvertently being discourteous or tactless, that in a commercial situation, one cannot make a cross from a pedigree and name the outcome to be the same as Avalanche. And, especially, sell that progeny as Avalanche. One could sell it as "the same cross that produced Avalanche" [truth in advertising].

Had the two parents been maintained as highly inbred lines, assisted by tester lines, then, certainly, every cross of that pedigree would be a modern F1 hybrid. Not quite so for two OP parents.

The reason I go to such nitpicking detail is that I have worked on the physiology of flowering, parthenocarpy, the earliness gene, membranes etc. for tomato since 1984. For the past several years, i have crossed and recrossed several large-fruited and cerasiformae, observing interesting linkage and drag effects that are quite unwanted with the trait of interest but exceedingly difficult to get rid of by conventional methods.

I am not a plant breeder by a long shot, but have a lifetime passion for the yield physiology, growth and development etc. of the large-fruited tomato. So i completely share your passion, and wish that excellent outcomes like Bwine OTV happened far more often. I have some careully calculated crosses going each year for 1 trait, the results are usually interesting but not what i was hoping for! Good luck!

g

Hi vg! And you never told me all that on the phone!

Mark,

I am seriously in awe of your backyard paradise and your breeding efforts, so there is nothing to tell you!! Hope all the potential difficulties are behind you and it is clear blue water all the way from now on.

Occasionally, i feel a little antsy about some of the things i read; so as i get older and a bit more anxious, some of the anxiety slips out.

Like when someone asked whether it was ok to grow tomatoes in the same spot year after year and another repled with great nonchalnce that he figured since weeds greww year after year with no ill effects, why not tomatoes?

Now i have nothing useful to say about whether tomatoes should or should not be grown at the same site for many years. There are too many imponderables involved.

However, the analogy with weeds is just plain wrong and born of ignorance. Weeds, including close relatives like wild oats in a field of grain oats, wild rice in a field of paddy rice etc., have been found to have hae a distinctively different physiology [than their domesticated forms] when it comes to nitrogen acquisition, photosynthesis [herbicide resistance], seed germination/photo/thermoperiodism etc.

So different is weed behavior, yield physiology, ecophysiology et al. that there is a whole field of weed science devoted to them that parallels the many vast sub-disciplines within the physiology of crop plants.

Therefore, when somebody casually dismisses something with a know-it-all attitude that may divert someone else towards error, one feels some responsibility to demur; therefore one has to affirm one's credentials, howsoever distasteful that might be.

Warm regards,

g

did anything ever come of this? I'm still looking for avalanche tomato plants/seeds.

Summerfan,

I succeeded in growing the Mozark and harvested several hundred seeds, listed it in the 2008 SSE Yearbook, and have not yet received a single request.

My Glamour plants in the 2007 garden were inferior examples, and I did not accomplish any Mozark x Glamour crosses for an approximation of Avalanche.

Furthermore, I haven't heard a single thing back from the several persons with whom I shared the original Mozark seeds sent to me by the University of Missouri. At least two of those persons said they intended to make the Mozark x Glamour cross to replicate Avalanche F1.

Bill

Somehow I missed this posting and thread a ways back. That is a shame.

Earlier this year I began correspondence with Dr. David Trinklein at U or M at Columbia. Dr. Trinklein had a very limited number of Mozark seeds which he had saved from a planting of very old seeds left behind by Dr. Lambeth. He has sent some of these to me.

I spent a pretty good number of hours chasing down sources for the other varieties which Dr. Lambeth had used in his
developement of both Missouri Surprise and Avalanche:
Mozark x Sioux = Missouri Surprise
Mozark x Glamour= Avalanche

I found Glamour in North Carolina, Sioux in Colorado and
Avalanche in Georgia, all from SSE members who I think
are very reliable and believe they have the true varieties.
Of course, absolute surety is not possible.

I have shared seeds with Patty Brown (Near Toledo) and also with Dr. Trinklein. Patty and I are going to try and generate a quantity of seed for all 4 varieties I have. I suggested to Dr. Trinklein that he might have a wonderful
project for his young and enthusiastic ag students but have not heard back from him as yet.

I would be willing to share a VERY FEW of the seeds I have to someone who could invest there time in this rejuvination project and who also is skilled at crossing tomato varieties. That is beyond me.

Please contact me by E-mail.

Larry Watson

Avalanche found at tomatobob.com

Here is a link that might be useful: avalanche

Avalanche seed is available at seven acres seed. I am sure they are legit and have purchased several to sell at my garden center.