The short answer is:

Dogs don't self pollinate.

The slightly longer answer is based on the type of mating system each species has:

tomato open pollinated lines are inbreeders. They tend to self pollinate and just recycle the same gene sequences in identical pairs (bar the occasional rare mutations). So there is little if any variation to select between and certainly none on the same plant (of course baring the rare somatic mutation). If you want variation, then you would need to cross it with a different line rather than wait on a mutation.

Dogs, humans, corn, melons and various other species are outbreeders. They have two unique parents that contribute unique genes in pairs that offer variation to select. If you start mating these species with related pairs (brothers and sisters) you start to find problems - called inbreeding depression. Unlike tomatoes or other species which can inbreed - they dont do well when their genes are in identical pairs.

Don't ever EVER accept "you will fail" as an answer.

You will learn from your experiences and use them to guide you to success.

Good luck getting your dog to self pollinate Trudi!

I am an outbreeder?

If I could afford it, I'd have her cloned ;-) I have a FABULOUS dog.

My old Lab self pollinated. Okay, he just tried real hard and failed, but I think he truly enjoyed the effort, mulio, so there's always that benefit.

Have you tried putting tomato seeds in the dog food? Sounds as plausible as other posts.

Well, I'm getting a lot of chuckles anyways with my naive question! LOL

The reason I asked is because I do know of someone who has successfully saved tomato seeds from only the largest and claims that worked yet mulio's explanation seems very scientific and plausible. There's something in me that thinks it's best to save only seed from nice big healthy robust fruit and that's what I do. BUT, I really should be saving seed from the puny disfigured non-slicable runts and enjoy eating my nice beautiful big ones!

Trudi, I hear you loud and strong. I was a non-believer on WSing tomatoes successfully but my own experiment last winter proved me wrong and you right! I am one to experiment for sure as that's where the fun is for me but I don't want to conduct a trial over 15 plus years either and especially one that science says won't work. (Excuse me I was a History major and still don't know what X equals and can't even spell pysics LOL)

I hope to contine reading more replies and by all means keep the chuckles coming too...:)

I think Neves Azorean Red was selected for size over several years. I guess he had many lines of the same original variety, and only saved seeds from the biggest each year.

Bless you BigDaddy, you're an inspiration to anyone who wants to "row upstream".

Everyone's experiences will be different with doing the same tests--it's like giving the same cake recipe and ingrediant quantities to a dozen people. Despite having equality in preparation the cakes will still all be cakes, but they'll all be unique because the baker is unique.

Hugs,

T--who can take a chicken and make really good chicken soup, but it's different from my Mom's really good chicken soup and MIL's really good chicken soup. And I think both Mule and you also make really good chicken soup, but it's different from everyone else's chicken soup too. Dang, now I'm hungry ;-O

Trudi...I just finished off some chicken I cooked outside on the grill! LOL! Now, I've never made chicken soup but my "chicken on the grill" is famous in these parts...:)

I bet is is! Do you use a white or red marinade?

Yes, Yes, Yes.
The learning is harder but always more convincing when you do it yourself. They told me Fire was hot-- ouch they were right and I wont forget,, but it is safer to learn from others mistakes especially when gravity, water, and explsives are involved-- tomato seed should be pain free for experimention. I am glad I am not a tomato 4 kids clones of me, LOL

I think Neves Azorean Red was selected for size over several years. I guess he had many lines of the same original variety, and only saved seeds from the biggest each year.

****

Tony Neves told Ed McCollum at Neptunes Harvest that he'd been trying to upsize it but never said that was in the Azores or in the US and the only seeds Tony gave to Ed came to me and then I listed it in the SSE Yearbook and started distributing seeds elsewhere.

Nothing was said about different lines, though.

Switching topics now a bit.

Not for upsizing, but for selecting for earliness.

Chuck Wyatt thought he had a Brandywine that he'd selected the earliest fruits from for several years that would be earlier than standard Brandywine and he called it Brandywine ( Joyce's strain) for his wife.

But for those who grew it and standard BW in the same season there was essentially no difference in DTM's.

Carolyn

Trudi, my specialty is thighs. Remove 80% of the skin. Leave about 20% for flavor. Nice and healthy and low calorie this way. Cook on low heat turning every 8 minutes for about 35 minutes. I use Lawrey's seasoned salt, Lawrey's red pepper and Butter Buds for last two turns. No rubs or marinade. Very tasty and still healthy and low cal!

Yum, love thighs!

Add-- This is the tomato forum, white marinade is unlikely in a tomato based forum, however vinegar based sauce is the popular carolina bbq sauce. ever try CHS bbq sauce? So bigddj was red or white?

thanks for the giggles:))

I am an outbreeder but got married in SC and, in 1998, they didn't care if we were related...

This post gets funnier n funnier!

But I've been completely serious.

And I vote for white marinade for BBQ chicken.

I'm partial to and have always gotten used dogs.

I detest people that got dogs, tired of them and got rid of them.

This does not include people with special circumstances, just ignorant jerks.

I'm not a dog person myself.

Do cats self-pollinate?

Oh right they don't...I do have plenty of catnip that I grew in my tomato garden. I selected seeds from them...anybody want my hand selected strain of $2 store bought catnip plant? They're absolutely amazing - you put them in the dirt and they grow into a big green plant!

Just being random, seems like the way this thread is going

I'm entering this discussion pretty late, having just got back into town and onto the computer.

As a mechanical engineer I can certainly claim no special knowledge regarding the laws of genetics: frankly, I do not comprehend them.

However, I do have over 50 years experience growing tomatoes, make notes regarding performance of varieties and the response to various experiments over the years, and so feel qualified to offer my own experience, not as proven
"law or science", but rather as a relevant observation or opinion.

So here are some of my opinions regarding tomato genetics:
1. Will every tomato taken from a single plant yield seed
true to the plants variety?-----NO!!!!!!! All blossoms may be capable of self pollination but there is a heck of a lot more multicultural fertilization going on out there in the garden than many believe in, particularly on warm summer nights--just shine a flashlight into the garden and see. How else can I account for the many crosses I have experienced over the years in spite of extreme care in seed saving and labeling tecniques.
2. Will all seeds from a single tomato be consistant in
the plant and fruits they produce? NO!!!!! Over the years I have done more than a dozen grow outs comparing one variety of tomatoes to another. This was done by planting rows of seed I had saved against other adjacent rows of either commercial sourced or saved seed of an alternate
variety or strain. All my saved seed comes from one tomato, the only exceptions being certain paste or plum varieties which yield extremely limited amounts of seed. Yes, I am
aware of contrary recommendations, but this is what I do.
Typically my comparitive rows would have in them 6 to 8 plants. All these tests showed minor variation plant to plant in vigor, fruit set and size, desease tolerance,
and days to first fruit. More variation than I could ever imagine could be charged to lack of soil consistancy, and certainly enviromental variation was not involved. But here is the key fact: Every now and then one of those plants in
a test row would vary extremely from all its siblings--could be very good or could be a very bad variation. One variation even produced bicolor fruits!

So, in summary, my experiences contradict some parts of genetic science others have presented. Maybe if the Good Lord will give me another fifty years I can get this matter down pat and straightened out!

Larry, thanx for sharing those 50 years of experience with me. You got me by over 30 years! I hope we each have another 50 years to go!

And even though SCIENCE tells me I should save seeds from ugly runty tomatoes even if I am saving for future bigger ones because all seeds from a plant are the same and I should eat the good looking ones, why save those for seed production, I'm going to continue to save seeds from the nicest, biggest and prettiest because I can't help myself...:)

Lots of fun
This is for Trudi:
You said,
Quote:
If I could afford it, I'd have her cloned ;-) I have a FABULOUS dog.
And you all so said,
Quote:
Don't ever EVER accept "you will fail" as an answer.
So Trude, are you going to cut off one of her legs and bury it in potting mix?
Don't kill me, its a nasty snow storm here and I need some one to bug, Kennyp