I suppose all of these things save money.

If $700k counts the lot, it is pretty hard to know from a forum if we are talking $100k lots or $400k lots

Code (and common sense) will not allow you to downgrade from 2x6 walls unless you are placing rigid foam on the outside. I don't think there is anywhere that is considered Midwest that does not have extremely cold winters but you might want to elaborate on location.

While code will allow the change to batts et al vs zip sheathing, common sense again probably wouldn't.

The change from alum clad windows to vinyl clad is your biggest savings (by my guess) and usually is only a problem with your HOA.

The loft probably saves $3-$4k so is a pretty good savings. In lower cost areas, $15-$20 a sqft for basic finishing of an under roof area. But it can be half that savings.

The basement walls depend a lot on what they are made of but in my area with poured concrete walls, it might be $3k or so.

Double-hungs would be less expensive than casements.

A "bid", by definition, is a binding offer to do the work described in a set of bid documents so it can't be "rough" - that would be an "estimate" and would be a far less reliable indication of cost than a bid.

The only reliable way to discover how much a change would save is to include it as an "Alternate" in the bid documents.

This post was edited by Renovator8 on Mon, Apr 1, 13 at 7:20

Thanks DC. lots/teardowns run $200 - 260 here. yes, poured concrete. Common sense is what is killing me, like you said, I know what is the smart thing to do and put money in the proper shell of house.
Reno8, yes, most was estimate, windows per drawings was actual bid. (20K) I think we can change scale and count of windows to lower a bit. I am highly allergic to dh windows ;) thanks again, we will tighten up drawings this week and go out for proper bid

Yow. Personal preference would be to build smaller but keep the envelope durable....consider energy efficiency and on going costs of running the home vs. the initial investment. So if the energy costs saved by insulation is greater than the cost of the insulation investment amortized over a 30 year period then on a cash flow basis, it's actually cheaper to do it.

I'd opt to reduce the basement height if I had no plans to finish it vs. the exterior wall construction or beam choices. Things that can be postponed like finishing the bonus space are good choices. But things you can't change later without tearing the house down or significant renovation are better done right now.

How much are you looking to save?

We went from 9' to 8' in the basement and cut a similar amount of square footage from the garage and each saved us a few thousand.

I wouldn't go to a 2x4 exterior up here (we're in MN) and our builder didn't suggest it. I'm not sure what part of the Midwest you're building in, but I wouldn't want to cut back on the quality of insulation.

The way we really cut costs was by reducing our square footage. Is that an option for you?

Using 2x4s will likely make it more costly to meet 2009 International Energy Conservation Code ( IECC) insulation requirements than using 2x6s. Let alone this will fail the upcoming 2012 Code. (Can't be sure, as you haven't even posted the state you're building in.)

The lifespan of vinyl vs. aluminum clad windows is similar in general. So that might be a worthwhile savings. As noted above, casements seal tighter so are more energy efficient.

Eight-foot foundation walls will reduce the headroom in the basement to barely seven feet, less under returns.

The biggest savings are always in the choice of finishes. Restrain yourself at that candy store!

ha, my wife likes candy! we are pretty grounded when it comes to finish choices and will cut here for sure. what you all are saying makes sense. we are reducing sq ft. We DO intend to finish the basement (sooner than later) so keeping 9' makes sense, and yes, 2x6 walls probably will be less expensive in the long run. Meeting w architect soon, will let you know how we come out. thanks

We're building about the same square footage just west of you. Based on our bids I think taking 1' off the basement will save maybe 5$ per foot. To me that trade off wasn't worth it but we plan on using the basement.

We're doing 2x4 with zipR sheathing. Not sure what we're filling the walls with yet. But batt saves us maybe $1.5k over spider.

I ended up with marvin integrity windows and was really surprised with the pricing there. They're fiberglass exterior and wood interior. Maybe save you some there but I'm not sure how our window and door packages compare.

It looks like you'll have really nice lighting in your basement so that might be a nicer place for the playroom. I would think it'll be more comfortable in the summer.

I wouldn't do the dimensional lumber for the floor joist but I live in a creaky older home right now so I'm heavily influenced by that. I bet it would be fine if done properly.

I would take square footage from the living space before I'd take the shop space. I think you could easily take at least 100-200 feet and still have very comfortable living spaces.

I bet your arch. Will have some great ideas- good luck!

Thanks Matt (just realized I owe you an e mail, sorry. I'm 'other Matt')
Yes on most of what you said. Keeping 9' basement for that very reason. Prob. Change to 2x4 w zip and look at insulation options again. Had window bid from Horizon (local KC company). Heard Marvin entegrity would be 10-20% more? But will verify

I'm with Annie on this.
Check that book, can't remember the title, about designing small spaces.

Thanks for the replies, just to update some questions. we are building in Kansas City area. minimum code for 2x4 walls is R13 (in our city). with zip and spider, proper caulking and sealing, we should get close to r15 in walls according to insul. guys (if they are believable, still researching) we are finishing lower level so keeping 9' walls. we have cut some sq foot. first estimate had about 8K for haul off, but met him at property this morning and he said he wouldn't haul off any dirt, but use it to flatten back yard (so prob. 6k in our favor?) we are getting closer, he is working on a list of items (cabinets, appliances, most fittings/finishes) that we can 'handle' on our own and lose his overhead (8%?) cutting some window sizes and changing from triple mulled to single picture as well as a few other details should knock off a couple of $K. for the neighborhood, we are actually on smaller size compared to most knock downs (2800sq ft compared to 4k-5k sq ft)..above grade.. having the extra 1200 sqft of finished basement helps us here. thanks again, really helpful

You are really opening a can of worms with your approach to your project. You don't have complete drawings and specifications from your architect (I hope it really is an experienced architect and not the local lumber yard drafter). Yet you have "bids" from 2 builders that aren't bids at all, only estimates of some sort, presumably from looking at your incomplete documents.

"Estimates" for construction, of something involving as many regulations, permits, approvals, building trades, materials and equipment as a new house, are non-binding and essentially worthless. How does someone making an "estimate" know what you want, where, and how it's to be installed? Tear-downs and rebuilding have even more possible complications and surprises than new construction.

Why don't you work with your architect to complete the construction drawings and specifications, together with bidding instructions, for competitive bids. You can work with your architect to either: 1) include some of your desired cost-savings into the final documents, and/or; 2) prepare a brief list of several "Alternates" describing construction or equipment for which you would like alternate bid prices for item X vs. item Y?

Once you have selected your contractor, if you still need to reduce costs, you can work closely with her/him to identify work and equipment that would provide acceptable final construction at a desirable reduce price.

Good luck on your build.

- change from allum. clad wood casement ($20K bid) to
vinyl clad casement

just to clarify..aluminum clad with wooden interior.
costly but a good window. while the metal cladding
conducts heat, this window has wood to the interior
wood is a poor conductor of heat/cold.
you pay a good bit more for metal clad wood windows.
but in the scheme of things a vinyl window will provide
solar heat gain coefficients & ufactors very close
to what the more expensive metal clad wood windows.

when shopping for windows shgc & ufactors are
the things to keep in mind. windows with shgc
& ufactors .30 & less provide a good savings
long term. nfrc.org has good non biased information
plus a label for most window mfg's.

here is a link that explains it much better than I can:

http://www.nfrc.org/windowratings/The-Nfrc-Label.html

best of luck.

Thanks E_R_L We are looking into window options.
Virg C. yes, thought this was covered. we do have only 'estimates' at this point, we needed a jumping off point. Our plans are drawn (and scalable) but not sent to engineering yet since we needed to see what ballpark we are in. Yes, a lot of builders and architects (yes we are using a real architect) say 'sure I can build that for that price' but we needed to see if it was feasible. Our builder gave us an estimate, he showed us specifically what went out for pricing and what he estimated based on his experience. Not to get snarky, I like my architect, but I don't feel like paying him for complete specs only to find out it is 100k to much and then pay him to start over. He doesn't want that either, and 20 years experience, he recommended this approach. This approach has been useful in helping us select a builder (personality, attention to detail, responsiveness all come out) We have a very detailed scope of work, while I am respectful of time by the 'estimates', I have not been overly demanding (according to builder) but as a 'custom home' it helps to set proper expectations.
I do appreciate your feedback VC, so please keep it coming, there just seems to be more than one way to skin a cat (sorry cat lovers)

Kcinkc71, if it works for you, then it's a good plan!

Good luck on your project.