Thanks again. I have my eye on the Eternal Hybrid - it seems like the best of both worlds - so the anti-scald valve off the water heater, and check with the manufacture for correct parts.

I know there will be plumber and a GC, but I feel I am in a better position if I know before all of the work begins -it also means I know how much money I need to have saved.

37% - holy cow!!!! I can certainly understand why you remember *that* number.

You don't have to have an anti-scald off the water heater. I've only installed one there a couple of times. All that is required is an anti-scald at the shower itself.

What I was trying to write at the end is that if you want to keep your water heater high and you want added protection, you get the safest bet by having an anti-scald valve right off the water heater. That valve would be in addition to the shower valves.

That way you can keep your water heater high for legionnaires or whatever, and the valve off the heater will step the temp down to protect the entire house (sinks, tubs, etc) and then the valve in the shower will provide your code-required anti-scald in the shower.

Anther time I'll install a valve right off the water heater is on older houses that have old-style shower valves that have no scald protection.

The supply house near me carries valves by two companies, "Taco" and "Cash". I use Taco valves. In the vicinity of $80-$100 for either 3/4" or 1" valve.

I understand that you're giving suggestions, but I'm phobic enough about scalding and burns that I think it's an excellent idea. It's officially in the book as a must have. Before your suggestion, I was thinking "low flo, heck no!" You've provided me with a way to use water sense shower heads and deal with my phobia.

i was wondering if you could help give more answers about handheld shower related issues. we are planning on having a rainshower head on a shower arm extension about 80" centered above the valve trim, then a handheld off to the right, maybe around 60" or so (haven't decided yet) high. so my questions are:

1. DH doesn't want more than one hole in the wall for the handheld. so i was thinking about using something like this:
http://www.signaturehardware.com/product16897?utm_medium=shoppingengine&utm_source=nextag
as the water supply and holder in one. will this do the job?
2. do i need another part to connect this to the pipe in the wall?
3. do i need a flange or a base or anything flush against the wall?
4. anything i should know before deciding how high up to tell the plumber to put the water outlet?

thanks!

The piece you linked to simply gets screwed on to a typical shower arm. So with that piece, the shower arm would be the "outlet" coming out of the wall, it should come with its own escutcheon plate, then you'd have that piece you linked to screwed on to the end of the shower arm.

If you're looking for a slicker look, a more "all in one" look, look into the combo outlets. A wall outlet and hand held bracket all in one. A much cleaner and less cluttered installation:

With the above outlet all you'd need is a drop-eared fitting and a threaded nipple that joins the outlet to the drop-ear fitting. See the photos earlier in the thread. Your plumber will supply those when he does the rough-in plumbing.

As to the height on the wall, that's totally up to you. It sounds like you're going for a non-traditional installation height. So just figure the elevation gain of the hand held head you'll be using when it's in the bracket and adjust the outlet height down from there.

mongo, thank you soooo MUCH for that link!! i knew those things existed, but i didn't know what to call them, so i couldn't pull up anything in the search terms that was exactly what i was looking for (thus, my link). thank you thank you thank you!!

btw, mongo, what is a "traditional" installation height and why? thanks again!

bump

WOW!!!! This is GREAT!!! Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Bump - fantastic info! Thank you so much, Mongo - I'm now reevaluating my list of 'to purchase' items. :-)

Bump for the newbies to the forum (and those of us who need the refresher!)

Wow, just wanted to add my heartfelt thanks to you, Mongo, for sharing so much of your knowledge and time w/ us. You are greatly appreciated!

Great information - so helpful!

Thank you.

I have a newly installed Hansgrohe Metric C thermostatic shower trim with volume control. It works beautifully, except that when someone flushes the toilet you get scalded. The old shower trim was also thermostatic and this never happened. Is it possible that the plumber installed it incorrectly? He says there is no way and it must be a faulty item, but I know he had never installed any Hansgrohe before and seemed like he was learning as he was going with all of the plumbing in the bathroom. I'd appreciate any advice.

There could be debris that's preventing proper operation. Or the valve could be defective. Or a few other things.

Has he come back and done any troubleshooting?

If I was responsible, I'd come back, take it apart, flush out the supplies and check supply volume flow, inspect the valve parts, reassemble, and give it another shot.

If I was you I'd call Hansgrohe Tech support and describe how your valve is performing. I have their number as (800) 334-0455. Might be different. That'll at least give you some talking points for when you next talk to your plumber.

Know what valve body you have before calling. Not the trim kit (have that too), but the actual brass valve body buried in the wall behind the shiny trim cover plate.

Best, Mongo

Thanks Mongo! I will try those things next week. Plumber and Hansgrohe are both off until the first of the year.

When you say know what valve body I have, is that the ibox universal plus rough, 3/4" with service stop? I have the invoice of all my plumbing purchases but am not sure what is what. I know the plumber was calling this part the rough in.

"When you say know what valve body I have, is that the ibox universal plus rough, 3/4" with service stop?"

Bingo!

Since you have stops, make sure they are fully open as well.

MongoCT - Thank you so much for writing this. It is 3:42 am and I can't sleep. I decided to peruse the forum for shower/bath info and stumbled upon this post. It is so helpful! I'm planning to remodel our 2 baths and have been avoiding the whole shower/tub faucet decisions because I was so confused with all the options. This is exactly the info I need... and I always wondered why our water pressure dropped when a toilet or sink was turned on!

Hi Mongo or any of you other kind souls...,
If you can bear one more from me I would be most grateful. I have a headache... Spent multiple hours/calls with faucet direct and they can't help me... I promise that I have been faithfully reading descriptions and many are not so well-written ... I will also likely never buy another delacora faucet again.

So here tis,
I think I need an a or b or ab valve to go with this rough in hunk of brass that goes with the Delacora tub shower faucet that I bought for another project.

http://www.faucetdirect.com/delacora-dellsvlv1407-1-2-inch-rough-in/p968459

I am trying to pair it with an alsons handheld shower that I purchased...
I cannot find a diverter that is manufactured by either that would seem to work i.e a four port valve - and am limited by the fact that I am using polished nickel Bling.

So I am looking at throwing a third manufacturer in the mix.

Jado seems to offer the bling bling trim kit that most closely resembles the style of my Delacora faucet...

But, all the Jado 4 port diverters say "Alternates water flow between 3 discrete shower outlets" ( which I read as A, B or C. but no combination thereof... since I read discrete to mean apart or separate...
http://www.faucetdirect.com/jado-876-004-4-3-port-diverter-valve-rough/p676397

But then the following Danze says "services up to 3 shower systems" which I would read the same as above.
EXCEPT that I finally found a more detailed description on Amazon that reads "This four-port diverter lets you create a custom shower system by making it easy to operate up to three shower systems--like a showerhead or handheld shower--simultaneously. Its eight-position valve channels water to all three or any combination of systems."
http://www.faucetdirect.com/mediabase/specifications/d130000bt.pdf

So I am confused about whether that means that the Jado really would be A or B or AB functional.

And assume that I should just go with the non matching Danze - EXCEPT to further confuse me, Faucet Direct recommended a Hangrohe which I ordered and then had to cancel because Hansgrohe told FD I can't mix this four port diverter valve with the Delacora... but I have no idea why.
http://www.faucet.com/mediabase/specifications/spec13932.pdf
Maybe that it doesn't have an "off" control?

They all appear to have 1/2" valves, so if I use the 3/4" tubing and supply valves I really struggle to understand why I couldn't mix and match the rough in valve with another brand of diverter valve...

Finally, this Brizo 6-Setting, 3-Port Diverter Rough In Valve really doesn't match, but reads Diverter Features:
"Three function diverter. 2 individual positions, 1 shared position"
And even though it reads as a 3 port I swear it appears to have an inlet and 3 outlets... So could it be a contender as well? http://www.faucetdirect.com/mediabase/specifications/brizo_r60700_spec.pdf

So I guess at the end of the day can I simply go with the Jado or any of the above except the hansgrohe; or can someone help me ferret out the differences?

Many thanks in advance!
Peace,

bumping to the first page. Maybe this can become the first sticky for the Bathroom forum.

Bump

Any recommendations / experiences with Hansgrohe fixed showerheads? We will have a 10" ceiling mounted Kohler rainhead and a 2 jet handheld (primarily for cleaning) and I still must decide on the fixed showerhead. Do you recommend 1 or 3 different water streams, and which are most effective? I prefer to stay with Hansgrohe and have been looking at the Axor products but just don't know....Bath will be transitional to modern. Shower is small, master.

Am bumping this as several people in the Bathroom forum have been asking about shower basics. Lots of good info here!

Thank you, mongoct for taking the time to post this for the rest of us! I am sure this one post will save me lots of time and headache when choosing fixtures.

Bumping to keep on the front page.

Excellent info in this thread.

bump

bump-great questions and info-big thanks to mongo

Thank you so much Mongo! You're a gem!

I didn't even know what bumping was until now. But this deserves to be bumped again.

Bump for those that could find this helpful.

mongo,

I've read all of your notes, thank you so much for the info. I'm still clueless as to what exact brass valve I should look for or what its called in order to have pressure control, thermostatic control and be able to use rain shower and handheld independently and simultaneously? is this a 2 way diverter? I'm looking at hansgrohe and kohler brands... thank you, Rach

I am trying to change my shower head and arm. The old arm and head that I am removing is plastic.. I have removed the head and arm and now there is just a 'big plastic nut' like bit left on the wall and the little backing plate. As I try to unscrew it, it just keeps turning round and round but will not come off. Help please :-) what is happening.

Are you sure your not spinning the Wing Back? That stays put and if you can spin it I'm guess it is attached to Pex plumbing.

I am not sure. It is hard to see if the inner bit is turning as well as the outer plastic bit because it's hard up against the wall. If I pry it forward a little with a screw driver, I might be able to see. So am I looking to see if the metal bit coming out of the wall with the thread on is turning? I don't know what pex plumbing is, sorry, I know absolutely nothing about plumbing but thought I should be able to change a shower head and stem, so watched a you tube video and began- but very soon hit a snag. The arm and all of the neck is off the wall, only left is a little plastic hexagonal nut looking attachment that the arm was bolted into the side of but it just turns. The turning of it is quite stiff still though, not turning easily.

try posting on the plumbing forum

Thank you :-)

I have already purchased a Delta In2ition model number 75588RB hand held and stationary showerhead in one unit. It didn't come with a shower trim kit and a valve. I don't know where to go or what to buy to complete this shower head. Can someone please tell me what I need and where to get it?

You can use any supply valve with a trim kit compatible for the supply valve that you buy.

If you are adding your new handheld to an existing shower, simply unthread the existing shower head off of the shower arm that protrudes from the wall, then thread the new handheld on to the existing arm.

If this is for a brand new shower or for a gut job remodel, then you'll need a new supply valve and a trim kit for that valve, and a shower arm.

The plumber will usually supply the miscellaneous tid bits that go behind the wall.

Any plumbing store will make sure you get a trim kit and valve that are compatible. If you shop online, for reference only, look at a place like FaucetDirect.com.

There you can shop for a trim kit that you like. When you click on the trim kit, FaucetDirect includes an additional link to the valve body required for that trim kit. In the example linked above, look at the yellow box and you'll see it says "rough in valve required". When you add the trim kit to the shopping cart, it'll include a link to the valve body that fits your chosen trim kit.

If the handheld is the only water outlet in the shower, you don't need anything with a diverter. Just a single outlet valve and its trim kit.

Hey MongoCT,

Thanks for all the invaluable info. Since you seem to really be knowledgeable & trustworthy maybe you can help me with these basic questions that I can't really find easily anywhere... I'm about to finish my first bath/shower combo and have 2 of the same CIFIAL thermostatic valves (289-715-999) installed/roughed-in (on opposite walls obviously). The walls are currently still open and we are about to tile. However, it appears that the valves may have been set a lil' further back than they should be for the matching/required trim (once tiled). I have the necessary extenders that CIFIAL suggests/requires but not sure this is my best bet. I'd love to simply move forward with extenders (and it's reduced cost vs having to re-rough everything) but will they end up being a huge problem/regret once the walls are closed/tiled? Or... although much more expensive, is it in your opinion better to just reposition the valves correctly now to avoid a catastrophe later (leaks caused by use of extensions)? And most importantly, what you you do if this was your house? Any advice about this concern would be super appreciated. Thnx.

"The walls are currently still open and we are about to tile."

If the walls are still open, without a doubt I'd reset them at the proper depth. By FAR the easiest and best solution.

"And most importantly, what you you do if this was your house?"

Same as above. I don't mind working around problems. But I much prefer to eliminate them and build off of a proper and clean slate.

Good luck!

Thanks MongoCT.

Ideally I'd like to move the valves forward as well. Unfortunately, it may not be that simple with my setup (please see pix below) as the walls aren't completely open due to the surrounding wood paneling on studs. Note: there are 2 valves like this - it's a dual shower/tub. Without going into the backstory of this situation, I am now in it and trying to decide on how best to move forward for tiling as you already know. While waiting for your post, I brought in a few LA plumbers for opinions/estimates. Some feel that the extensions should work fine (since they are from the orig valve mfg) while another offered to reset both valves for $2400. Hmmm.

Regardless of whether that cost is accurate or simply absurd due to guys wanting to take advantage of the situation, the real question is this... now having seen the included pix MongoCT... do you still recommend that I move them (if I can get the labor cost down) or can we consider this a "working around problems" scenario and go ahead with the extenders?

Honestly, I trust you more than the plumbers I brought in so far, since you have no financial motivation for offering your advice (which has been awesome to many here). While I continue to look for a good plumber that I can feel comfortable with, I hoped you might let me know your thoughts after looking closer at my dilemma. Again any help would be greatly appreciated.

Looks like you have a couple thicknesses of plywood, then what are you putting over that? 1/2" cement board over the ply, then 1/4" tile over the cement board?

If you haven't already figured it out, do you know how far forward the valve needs to be pulled?

"As is", it looks like the supply tubing will fight the tub filler (if the vertical tube on the right is indeed for a tub). The hole in the stud on the left can be elongated, but with the way the pipes are configured you'll get a bit of twisting action on the valve when you pull it forward because of the tub filler. If it needs to be pulled forward a significant amount that might be too much for your configuration.

Certainly figure out your depth requirements for your eventual wall thickness and make sure the extenders can work for your finished wall thickness. If they work, feel free to leave things as they are.

Good luck!

Thanks again Mongo CT,

The goal is to use the appropriate Schlutter Kerdi-Board with my 17"x26" - 1/2"W Porcelonsa Ferroker Tile (links below):

ihttp://www.schluterkerdiboard.com

http://www.porcelanosa-usa.com/home/products/tile/stonker---porcelain.aspx/d=38771/title=Ferroker_Titanio#tab-17x26&sample=True

While I don't know the CIFIAL extender length off-hand (Sorry ' bout that), I have shown the plumber(s) and he believes that they should accommodate our needs.

I'm doing my best to make sure the plumber and tile guy coordinate precisely ahead of time to ensure everything works out. Hopefully all goes well.

Appreciate your input greatly & thanks for the well wishes :)

Thanks for this thread, Mongo and everyone else who has contributed!! It has been a huge help in figuring out what I need for this shower/tub combo :)

Ok, lets bump this again :)

bump

I've got a question I hope someone has an answer to. In our 1964 house we have two bathrooms back to back and the world's noisiest toilets. I've never heard such a racket from home toilets! There is nothing special about the toilets themselves, just the usual ones someone picked up at HD or somewhere similar, and both have been replaced since the low flush era, so not 1964. Is it the way they're plumbed? Can it be fixed?

It can’t be the supply. It could be the toilets, the highly reflective room, or the noise in the waste stack??????

Anyway, I’m thrilled with my Hoby mixing valve that prevents scalding and legionnaires disease. I am a worry-wart. :)

"I've never heard such a racket from home toilets!"

You could check the water pressure in the house. High pressure can cause squealing in some fill valves/mechanisms.

Thanks, we'll check it out.

Bump