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mbishop22

Help choosing window materials and brand for NW contemporary

10 years ago

Hi everyone. I'm building a northwest contemporary house outside of Seattle, and I could really use some help choosing window materials and brand. While designing the house, we and the architect assumed we would use aluminum windows (we love the dark color inside and out as well as the very minimalist frames). But now that it's time to pick materials, my builder told me that aluminum isn't a good choice because of expense due to energy ratings as well as the fact that they sweat in our climate. So yesterday I went to a local window showroom and got a bit more education about this. After seeing how "dark" the glass looks after putting 3 panes and the coating needed to meet energy ratings, I am not excited about aluminum even if the cost and sweating issue wasn't there. The guy at the store recommended Andersen's E-Series/Eagle because they are able to achieve narrow frames using a laminated wood interior (like beams use). I only saw a big sliding door in the showroom, so I don't feel like I have a great sense of how they would look compared to the aluminum look I love. The sales guy also asked to see my plans, and after looking at them, he said the sizes and configurations of the windows rule out vinyl unless we are willing to revise the drawings. Does all of this sound legit? I'd love to hear recommendations for material and/or brand for what I'm looking for (dark interior/exterior, minimal framing, large picture windows with adjacent casement windows). Thank you in advance!!

Comments (23)

  • 10 years ago

    Am in a different climate than you and ended up with thermally broken double pane aluminum.

    For your climate, go read this:

    http://blog.buildllc.com/2012/12/top-10-things-to-know-about-aluminum-windows/

    Here is a link that might be useful: build llc on aluminum windows

  • 10 years ago

    I would take this to the window forum, you will end up with excellent advice from the pros there.

  • 10 years ago

    We're doing a similar style house. We're doing vinyl for cost and energy efficiency. But we're getting them custom coloured so we can have the dark interior, and we *could* do a aluminum colour on the outside.

    We never investigated anything other than vinyl. So I'm not sure what the rules are for frame sizes.

    I'd love to see your plans and/or inspiration pics. I feel somewhat alone on here some days with my contemporary style home.

  • 10 years ago

    I think it's worth considering the inspiration images that informed your aesthetic. Metal windows are most common on contemporary homes. We installed the Andersen Eagles and while I suppose you could use lite patterns to create a more modern look, they are definitely not a contemporary looking window.

  • 10 years ago

    Thanks everyone for the replies. I copied my post to the windows forum as suggested. And @amberm145, you can see 2 of our elevation drawings here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2NVcmEEVjLcS0lJbGViaDVoV2M. For reference, the tall large sliding doors are 10'high.

  • 10 years ago

    That house would look really odd with Eagle windows, or indeed most wood windows. I've seen Loewen windows in some contemporary homes, but they are big $$.

    Your windows look huge. That's another challenge for typical window manufacturers like Andersen. We hit some of their size limits in our construction - fortunately because we have a more traditional style they were able to figure out how to compose larger units out of mulled smaller components.

  • 10 years ago

    One other word of warning. It looks like you have corner windows. In a contemporary home it's probably your expectation that the windows run right into the corner. I'm not sure if this is achievable with a conventional wood window unit... it seems like a very custom design. The thing I wanted to mention is that this is something your structural engineer has to know about, since typically a window has a header that runs across the top of the opening and is supported on either side. In the case of a corner window it isn't, so the structure above the corner needs to be supported differently. A colleague of mine had a similar situation where this detail was not made clear and he ended up with a post in his corner which he was unhappy about.

  • 10 years ago

    I understand your pain. My wife and I love the look of aluminum windows. However, building a house in Wisconsin ruled them out. Have you looked at the Kolbe VistaLuxe series?

    kolbe vistaluxe

  • 10 years ago

    We've used higher-end Andersen and Marvin for remodel in Eugene, OR. Love, love, love the Marvins (but very $pendy). Hated the Andersens.
    We're building a new (second) home in Sunriver, OR. Different climate, and we wanted wood casements with exceptional resistance to exterior fading from UV (not so much a problem in Seattle). We did tons and tons of research and JELD-WEN "Custom" was a slam-dunk winner. (They're made in Bend, Or, and we actually spent a half day closely examining the factory floor and how each step of the process was done.) The Cardinal e-glass they use is manufactured in Hood River, OR to the specific standards of JELD-WEN. Only Marvin's came close in performance, and they were WAY more expensive.

    BTW, other JELD-WEN lines are completely different story, so don't confuse reviews for the various lines.

    For other folks benefit ... if you're looking at metal clad and concerned about UV, look for "Kynar" finish. Marvin has the best (thickest), JELD-WEN Custom is in the second ranks of Kynar.

  • 10 years ago

    If you are here in the Seattle Area, take a drive to several of the newer developments and contemporary homes. Then, ask the builders what they used...

    We've got 18 homes going in right behind us--it is about 1/2 done. This one particular developer builds a lot of contemporaries right now. I am pretty sure they are using vinyl.

    If you want more info PM me.

  • 10 years ago

    I'm also in your neighborhood and went through this exact decision process a year or so ago. We had used Marvin fiberglass on our garage, ebony on the outside, but the inside was white. For the house, we wanted black inside and out. We ended up with Milgard fiberglass and now that the house is more or less done, I do really like the windows. We were able to use just double panes in most locations. We went down to the showroom/factory in Fife a couple of times to talk to people who really knew the product. In the general window showrooms, people sometimes know one brand better than another, so we wanted to get the info from the source before finalizing the decision. They also gave us color samples of the fiberglass material. The black is actually a deep charcoal (as compared to the Marvin black which is really black.) I only notice the difference when seeing them side by side.

    Our other options were Marvin clad windows with black outside and wood interiors, but we'd have had to paint them, plus the fiberglass was better with regard to heat transfer, as I recall. We did use Marvin patio doors.

    I haven't posted photos here yet, but if you send me an email, I can send some your way. Windows were one of our toughest decisions. You'll be glad to have that one behind you!

    Oh yes, forgot to mention, we also had one huge window array that had to come in 3 sections. It was installed to look more or less like a single huge window (with divides). We also have corner windows. They have posts, but they are not huge. I like the way they look. I think our contractor did something to make them as small as they could be, but they are still there.

  • 10 years ago

    Wow - that looks so much like our house.
    With as many divisions that you have in the window designs, it would look better in aluminum.

    Vinyl will look "clunkier". Fiberglass might work.

    What brand are you looking at for the multislides?

    What is the orientation of the house?

  • 10 years ago

    With the size of the windows, though, a thick frame wouldn't really look that bad. If you've got a 10' tall window, I would think a half inch frame would look cheesy. A 2.5" frame would be more in proportion. No?

  • 10 years ago

    Steel windows, such as Hope's. The narrowest sight lines. Cost is $$$$

  • 10 years ago

    Thanks everyone for the info. My builder got bids for the following options, all of which can be done in black or bronze inside and out (what we were looking for):

    Anderson Eagle $34,455 Wood interior(Pine)/ al clad bronze exterior. Upgrade to Fir interior will probably bump it up to the same as Windsor.
    Windsor $38,400 Wood interior (fir) aluminum clad exterior
    Innotech $43,000 Vinyl tilt and turn; black/black
    Coure de lane $43,253 Vinyl; black/black
    Marlin $60,035 Aluminum black frame
    Fleetwood $72,561 Aluminum black frame

    I asked them about Kolbe and Milgard fiberglass, but for some reason I don't see bids from those. Aluminum is out of our budget, so we're trying to decide between the other options. I saw the Innotech windows in a showroom and was impressed by their functionality, strength, look, and warranty. But I haven't been able to see the other windows in person yet. Any thoughts?

  • 10 years ago

    In case you're looking for another fiberglass product for comparison... I live in Portland and in my search for windows I contacted Inline windows on the east coast. On the GW Window forum I was told Inline has the best energy performance of any fiberglass; comparable to vinyl. Inline is not available in the PNW, but they recommended Cascadia Windows and Doors in BC.

    I know you're far along in your research, but it might be worth your time to look into Cascadia.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Cascadia Fiberglass Windows

  • 10 years ago

    Have you asked in the windows forum?

  • 10 years ago

    Thank goodness for the internet and Houzz/GW. I am in the process of starting a custom home build and this info is invaluable.

  • 10 years ago

    Hasn't anyone suggested Marvin integrity ultrex?

  • 10 years ago

    Marvin integrity ultrex was what we used on our garage, but at that time, we couldn't get a black interior option. They might have it now, though-- seemed we were told it was the most-requested option that wasn't offered at the time.

  • 10 years ago

    Mbishop, Which windows did you end up choosing for your build?

  • 10 years ago

    Here is another blog post by build that may give you some more information about your window choices. http://blog.buildllc.com/2015/05/a-modern-guide-to-windows/

    We used gerkin (aluminium) windows and they were significantly less than fleetwood, with the added benefit of being delivered on time (we combined them with some sliding doors/windows from fleetwood which came a few weeks late). I think the main advantage of fleetwood windows is that for the really large spans and door window combo units, they have the mullions figured out to be pretty minimal. Gerkin doesnt do doors, and their mullions are bulkier. This blog post should give you an idea - http://mattrisinger.com/gerkin-aluminum-windows-vs-storefront-for-a-modern-new-home/.

    You may need triple glazing (especially on operable windows) to meet code with aluminium windows, but if done judicially you can minimize how much you notice them. This blog post, also by build, may help. http://blog.buildllc.com/2013/11/meeting-the-energy-code/.

    We also have one corner window. Fleetwood can do these, but the mullion at the corner is pretty big. We got an aluminium clad wood window from Marvin. It may be a little different in appearance, but no one is going to notice unless you point it out to them.

    I would also check out Almuniiom clad wood windows from Marvin, though they are pricey. It may be that you use a combo of Marvin integrity (fiberglass) windows for most places, and combine them with al clad wood windows from the full marvin line. They can build pretty much anything. Plus they do have a fiberglass/wood option as well. They were too expensive for us, but from everything i have heard Marvin is one of the best window manufacturers out there.

    Finally, we also looked at Inline windows. They make fiberglass windows, but can apply a wood veneer on the inside to give you that warm look. This will probably be cheaper than the full marvins.

    Hope this helps.