asolo, I switched from hand kneeding to KA dough hook after mastectomy caused loss of strength in left arm. I do very much like it, and think it does a beautiful job. You do have to be careful about the dough creeping up the hook, but I read if you use a little no stick spray on the top of the hook it should help.
I can tell you that Bernard Clayton, the true king of bread recipes, provides an alternate method of using the KA dough hook in his recipe books.
The only suggestion I would have is to make sure you get the model with the bowl lift. Let us know how it goes.

I've been using one for bread for 20 years. The short answer is yes. It will save you a lot of trouble and pain, though you may still need to finish up by hand -- what no machine can do is the stretching-and-folding-under process that gives a ball of dough the shape that makes a nice loaf in the oven.

Longer answer: This may or may not be relevant depending on what kind of bread you like to make. I do a lot of long-fermentation breads, like over 2 or 3 days, using a starter I keep in the freezer plus a little fresh yeast. The KA mixer is great for these. I can start them off with all the liquid and maybe half the flour, mix ten minutes using the paddle, and then let it sit for a day or so -- it's liquid enough that bubbles go to the surface and you don't have to worry about over-rising. I can then switch to the hook and add flour bit by bit until I get the consistency I want, all at a leisurely pace. The long rise and development does a lot of gluten-development for you. I can do very gloppy doughs, like some described in Carol Field's _Italian Baker_, that are almost impossible by hand (and that need zero hand kneading). Firmer doughs still want a little hand finishing, especially if you do them as hearth breads.

So if you're willing to experiment a bit, then not only the mixer but also some change in bread varieties can really save your hands. I highly recommend the Carol Field book -- it completely changed what I thought was possible from home baking.

I also love the KA for bread-making. Use it once and you'll never look back! I don't have the bowl-lift because I didn't want to have to go through the up and down movement every time I wanted to add something or stir the mixture. Some of my friends had that and thought it was a pain to use -- but everyone has their likes and dislikes.

I use a Bosch Universal Mixer to make my bread and have had wonderful results for about the last 13 years. I usually make whole wheat bread, which is a little harder on the mixer motor and the Bosch has a little more oomph for that. It would handle your size batch with ease, I make 6 loaves at a time with mine. It's also great for mammoth batches of cookies. :-) Just wanted to chime in, because everyone's heard of KA but there are other good quality mixers out there.

Cj

Wow....fast and INTERESTING responses. I'm feeling better already. I have KA on the brain not knowing what else available. Better check out Bosch, too.

Thanks, everyone.....and everyone/anyone else still welcome! I think I feel my bread-life changing.

I use the big KA for bread. It's pretty good. But there are probably even better options. I recommend the cooking forum for more references. There are a lot of bakers there and some even use machines. They are friendly.

The bigger bowl lift machines do have a little more oomph that the tilt head ones so depending on how much and what type of dough you're working, you might need a bowl lift. I can do three loaves of whole wheat in mine but if I get creative and add too many oats it really labors.

I love my KA, but I've got my eye on the Electrolux mixer now. I may have to save up my pennies for another year before I can afford it.

The only problem I have with the KA is that after kneading a stiffer dough, I have a very difficult time getting the bowl to release (it sort of spins into the base). A few times, I've had have DH grab the bowl while I hold on to the mixer, and then we can get it off.

I use my KA for very delicate breads. Soft, double rise, brioche style challah, especially. If you overdo it you can smash the heck out of it, but if you pay reasonable attention to the dough and don't go for the "more power" it should be fine. I'm sure that's true for any of the residential mixers.

BTW, the current model KA mixers do a better job on this than the old Hobart made. On the old one, we'd have add the end of the flour and finish the knead by hand.

We have the "Artisan" model Kitchenaid mixer that does not use the "bowl lift," but rather the drive head is hinged and tilts up and out of the bowl.

The articulating Kitchenaids have this floating pin used as the hinge point. When the dough hook is used, the pin wanders out of place constantly. One minute the machine is mixing and the next it is making a knocking noise because the hinge pin wandered out the side of the machine.

The Bowl lift models don't suffer this problem, but have the powerhead permanently in the way making it very difficult to get in there with a spatula to scrape the sides or to add dry ingredients during the mix.

Dough climbs the hook and wraps around the planetary drive head very easily with Kitchenaids, too, which sucks mightily when cleanup time comes.

Though Kitchenaid mixers are highly regarded in some circles, I think they mostly blow.

We now have the Bosch mixer which I use to grind grain (stone mill) for Rye and Whole Wheat loaves. I like and recommend (with reservations) Bosch or Electrolux or one of the other open top Big Love Mormon mixers if you can swing one.

These things can handle immense boluses of dough that would feed the entire Duggar family plus a couple cousins from Little Rock. You can dump dry ingredients in while the mixer is running because the drive comes from underneath and there is no way for the dough to climb out of the bowl.

I think that the Bosch mixers have achieved cult status with the various apocalyptic cults who think Jesus is coming back in a spaceship next Wednesday and the best way to prepare is to have 14 kids living in a bunkhouse home. There is certainly something to be said for having a mixer than can turn out a lot of dough at one time.

The Bosches can certainly do that, as can the Electrolux/Magic Mill machines, though I can definitely say that I have NO IDEA whether one of them can make any of the cool sounding breads mentioned by Pillog or any of the other accomplished bakers on the forum.

I have a 25 yr old KA (Hobart) which does a good job with bread, as long as it's no more than 2 loaves' worth of dough. It wouldn't handle 8 cups of flour. I read way too many things here and across the internet about the newer and larger KA's overheating with heavier doughs. Also, they seem to come in varying wattages, so I'm not sure which would be best to choose.

I went with Bosch and would never look back for bread, including dough for pizza crust (for which I mix a smaller batch than for bread), buns, cinnamon rolls, etc. You can add flour as it mixes to get the right consistency of the dough, and I can let the sponge sit and rise in the bowl with the splash guard and lid set, which are quite nice. We still use the KA for cookies and cakes, because we have it, although I've read other posts that say the Bosch can do those well, also.

First, the important stuff, the bread. I've had my Bosch for going on 14 years. I have made a number of different types of bread in it, including heavy whole wheat bread with various other grains, plain old white bread, a Challah-type bread that's a family tradition at Easter, Ciabatta and other 'artisan' type breads made from a poolish, sourdough, etc. It has handled it all with no trouble. I can do up to 6 loaves, but it will handle anything down to about maybe 2 or 3. It would not adequately knead one loaf, the dough would just get lost in the bowl. What you might like about a Bosch is that it's a lot lighter in weight than the Kitchen Aid--not a problem to lift and move it around. Some folks feel that the plastic housing makes it look "cheap", but honestly, the thing is a workhorse, at least in my experience. I have never had any trouble with my mixer moving around on the counter while it's kneading *unless* I was kneading a small amount of dough and the counter was wet or really coated in flour dust. Then it's a bit slippery.

The Electrolux is also a terrific machine, but from what I have read and heard from others, it does have a bit of a learning curve. If you don't mind that and are willing to take the time to figure out it's little eccentricities, then it does whatever you ask it to--even knead just one loaf of bread. For awhile a few years ago, there were some complaints that they'd made changes to the machine that were not good--but I've been out of that loop for a long time, so you'd have to do your own research to find out the current feelings on them. And if you are never going to make more than a few loaves of white bread at a time, then you might find that the Kitchen Aid meets all of your needs adequately. I'm not espousing one mixer over another, just putting what I know out there so that you can use it any way you wish.

Second--Mojavean, that spaceship is due to arrive Thursday, not Wednesday. You're just lucky I'm nice enough to clue you in, after what you said about some of us who like the Bosch and enjoy milling their own grains. I know people who are probably in the groups you were disparaging, and on behalf of those very nice, sane people, I take issue with your remarks. Some of them were helpful to me many years ago when I was just learning how to use home-milled grains, even though my reasons for doing it were different from theirs. You don't have to agree with the reasons they live the way they do, but I'd hate to see someone who has something to contribute here alienated because of unkind remarks made about his/her religious beliefs and lifestyle.

Cj

I'll compare my non-denominational loaves with anyone's....smiling all the time. Just want to produce the product without the pain. And, actually, if the task becomes easier, I can give away more loaves than I do now. I have at least one doctor's office and one dentist's office have have come to depend on my largesse.

Liking all the experienced advice I'm getting. Thanks!

I bake a lot of bread and generally rely on my KA stand mixer to do most of the work. It is especially useful for wet doughs.

But...be sure to buy a large capacity mixer, at least 6 qt. KA also makes a spiral dough hook. I believe this is standard on their 6qt mixers. This is much better than the "C" style hook.

Just for information, not argument, I can get eight or nine cups of flour into the Artisan (not the old Hobart), and the dough doesn't climb the coated, white dough hook the way it tried on the old, bare metal one. I don't walk away from my mixer no matter what I have in it, so I've never had the dough climb the head. Also, I don't make lead breads, so I don't know how it would handle dense, dry balls of dough. The basic KA is a good, less expensive, all purpose mixer for ordinary, multi-purpose, residential use. And it comes in pretty colors.

Certainly, there are heavier duty mixers more particularly suited to bread, but since the question was asked about KA, I feel confident in saying that it's adequate.

plllg.....

Thanks for responding. I said KA because that's the only one I know about. If there's better available, in your opinion, I would welcome the information.

You certainly know I love you, Plllog, so I know you understand and hope others do, too, that I'm trying to clarify, not argue. The OP question was if there is better than the KA for bread, and I think the Bosch is, for the reasons cited by Cj. I sure don't make 'lead bread,' and nothing I'd describe as 'dense, dry balls of dough.' Does anyone try for that? ;-) It's just that sometimes I found breads the KA can't finish, but not any with the Bosch. Admittedly, mine is not one of the new mixers, but I just couldn't find much good about the newer KAs in terms of being a good and reliable bread mixer. I bow to anyone who has one and happily uses it often as such.

As far as how small a load the Bosch can handle, the smallest I've tried is pizza crust dough with as little as 2 1/4 cups of water, which would mean approx 4 1/2 - 5 cups of flour...So I think that'd be about the same as 1 1/2 to 2 loaves? I'm not sure any more, because making 1 or 2 loaves of bread would be a ridiculous waste of energy around here, as I'd have to turn right around and start another batch.

The weight issue is a good point, Cj. Much easier to lift the Bosch around. I leave my KA out where it doesn't need to be moved, but it's no problem to tuck the Bosch away and get it out to use it. Of course, it's not as pretty either, so not something I really want on display. :-)

I have no opinion about the others because I've only used the fliptop KA. I don't count using other machines in other kitchens because there's a learning curve on all of them. I trust what Rhome and Cj, as well as others, have said about the Bosch (and I've heard other good things as well). There are a lot of other mixers that will do fine for a couple of loaves at a time that have more mixed reviews like the Viking and Breville. I don't know anything at all about the Electrolux.

I think the KA Artisan is the best value for the price. For baking large batches of bread (more than three goodly loaves at a time), and for heavy, dry bulky breads, as well for ease in adding ingredients as it works, it sounds like the Bosch is a winner. The thing is, with the KA you can also easily whip eggwhites, mix up all kinds of batters, and basically accomplish everything you might want a mixer for. I know you can use the Bosch for batters, but I don't know how well it works for some of the other things one uses a mixer for.

KA improved the capacity, and the tendency of the old one to fling flour if it was accidentally turned on too high too fast, by raising the sides on the current model of tilt top (BTW, I've never had that banging trouble, and am in fact impressed with how well mine handles lumps.). This does make access with the head in place a little difficult. People invent solutions, like the Pourfect bowls and measuring beakers that have funnel spouts to make it easier. I'm usually drizzling in warm milk or butter while keeping my eggs from cooking in their heat, and I find I can do that without any fancy equipment.

The difference with the motor above and descending tools, as opposed to the motor below with the power coming up through a central spindle is that it makes hand finishing much easier. With a dozen eggwhites in stiff peaks, and a very heavy batter to gently fold in by hand, the KA bowls with handles and a heavy duty scraper make it really easy to handle the weight, and to lift the eggwhites from the bottom and fold in a very few moves so they don't get squished. This might be a Jewish thing, where we have a weeklong holiday that depends on whipped eggwhites for anything light, but that's a big reason I like my mixer. And it has never balked at any of the breads I've made.

LOL!! Oh, Rhome, the "dense, dry balls" of "lead bread" wasn't aimed at you!! I know quite a number of people who do make them. They're good breads, but very heavy, but they have a really dense crumb. They're moist enough once baked, but I think they don't release a lot of steam in the baking. The dough, when it's finished is almost like Playdoh in rigidity. I was just saying, given some of the mention of what the KA doesn't have power for, that I haven't tried these kinds of things in mine, and I don't know how it would handle them.

We cross-posted. :) As you will see above, I do trust your and Cj's review of the Bosch. I totally agree with you about the old KA. It couldn't finish the same challah recipe that I make most, but the new one has no trouble with it at all. I certainly didn't mean to chide anyone for bringing up better! Just clarifying that the new model KA can take a bigger load and handle it better than the old one, though some people (not in this thread) say the Hobart ones were the only good ones.

You guys are a hoot! Thanks for all.

CJ47, you will note the I OWN a Bosch, grind my own wheat and rye, etc., so anything I happened to say about Bosch owners would necessarily apply to me.

There is the set of Bosch owners and there is the set of weird cultists. My observation is that there is a significan overlap of the two sets, but they are certainly not in unity. In any case, popularity amongst the apocalyptics would, it seems to me, be an argument in favor of a mixer's quality and durability.

Finally, who says cultists can't appreciate a sense of humor and enjoy a harmless chuckle like the rest of us?

Interestingly, there are MANY videos of both Bosch and KA handling bread dough over on youtube. Now thinking maybe I should have started there before asking here. Whatever...interesting and looks promising as far as obtaining a machine to do the stuff that hurts.

Again, my thanks to all of you.

My mother-in-law is a serious baker--bread, pastries, the works--and her advice was that if you're making bread, get the KitchenAid with the 500W motor or above. So, not the 350W Artisan or the 275W classic, but one of the higher-end models (e.g., the KA Professional 600 has a 575W motor). I have friends who occasionally make bread with their Artisans, and it certainly works, but it's hard on the motor. If you make bread that often, you want the motor to last so you should get one with a more powerful motor.

I'm guessing the same advice would apply regardless of which brand you get. My mother-in-law has a KA Professional 600 and loves it.

This discussion has been all about stand mixers. I, too, have used a (Hobart) KA for bread for many years. It's a 5 qt and I have the same experience as Rhome: more than 7 cups of flour and the dough climbs to the top of the hook. Fall 2009 I started baking breads, rolls, sweet rolls, buns, pizza crust, pita, cakes and cookies for a local farmer's market. The small KA just wasn't keeping up with the pace of baking-it took way too long to prepare all the doughs. I bought a second KA (pro 6 qt. bowl lift machine). After the third machine failure, (and replacement by KA) in 1 year, I invested in a Zojiurshi bread machine. It has saved my baking marathons. I bake 20 or more items at a time. I use it to knead the dough after mixing it in the KA to just the right consistency. The settings are very flexible. Set on 'no pre-heat' dough cycle, a batch is ready to rise in 15 minutes. The Zo also does a very good job on full dough cycle mixing the dough as well as kneading. You might consider a bread maker if that is the sole use of your stand mixer.

I must be missing something about the Zo. Appears to be loaf-at-a-time machine. The ones I saw had text talking about one 2-lb loaf...with no description about what, exactly, the machine does.

I make six 1lb, 1oz loaves at a time....about 6 1/2 lbs of dough in the bowl. No marathons. But, who knows what the future holds?

Most attracted to KA ProLine 600 product, but......at 25lbs, this machine must have its own dedicated counter space. Having to take it out of storage, place it, and return it to storage would be more physical aggravation for me than the kneading I'm trying to avoid by having the machine in the first place.

The Bosch universal weighs 1/2 as much. Maybe that would be a better candidate in my situation. However, in some of the videos of that machine I watched it nearly throw itself over when a bolus became unbalanced. In the video, it is instantly seized by three hands and held down for the duration. Something to be said for weight!

I haven't seen the video (by one user?), but I have never had my Bosch become unbalanced or leave the counter.

I read several reports across the internet with stories similar to Cohotele's in which the KA 6 qt had to be replaced more than once for failing during dealing with bread dough. I noted that they seemed to change plastic gears for metal, but the metal gears still were surrounded by other plastic components. Maybe they've changed that situation, too? But not good enough, from Cotehele's experience. If I was an occasional bread baker, I might take the chance with a KA, but knowing you'd want to do a lot of bread and fairly often, it seems like a pricey risk. That's also why I decided against giving the 7 qt Viking a try, which had about an equal mix of "I love it" and "I hated it" reports out there in cyberspace... Just all my opinion, and worth only as much as you want it to be. :-) Best wishes.

We bought this built-n Bosch mixer instead of the counter model.

There is no danger of it walking away anywhere no matter how unbalanced a load you end up with.

It was risky because the concept models are discontinued but not having to give up any counter or cabinet space for a bulky drive unit made it worthwhile. So far we are happy with it. It serves as a food processor (not a great one, it's on the small side and it doesn't autopulse like my old Braun multisystem, but it's okay) a slicer/grater/Julienner, a mixer, including a very heavy duty all-steel dough hook, a blender (superb performance out of that), and a stone grain mill.

The pulser on the thing is kind of awkward, requiring you to twist the spring loaded knob to the left, and it only pulses to high speed, which can get messy when you are dealing with liquids, but overall, it works out great and saves me a lot of room in the cabinets.

Again, this is discontinued and probably more for the appliance geek, but since you are posting on here all the time, asolo, I am thinking you ought to at least know about it.

Oh, fine, majavean....so buying a huge cumbersome device isn't enough for you? For you I have to remodel the entire kitchen? : )

Just kidding...as I know you were.

For rhome410 and others with an interest, here's the video. The out-of-balance parts occur at 4:20 and 8:08.

Here is a link that might be useful: Bosch universal reacting to imbalance

The Zo kneads dough for three 1 to 1-1/2 pound loaves. The dough is taken out of the machine, rises in a dough bucket, shaped, put into pans and rises a second time, and finally baked in the oven. My ovens are a bit of a pain, so dealing with 3 loaves at a time per oven is the best I can hope for.

The KA mixers have a specific limit on the amount of flour and the duration of mixing/kneading. If either of those restrictions are crossed, it voids the warranty. The six minute time limit is rarely enough time to mix AND knead the dough. The flour limit is 7 cups even though it is advertised as handling 14 cups of flour. All three KA mixers failed within these parameters. I suspect the 6 1/2 pounds of dough is more than 7 cups of flour. If I had it to do over again, I would not buy the KA Pro 600 6 quart bowl lift machine.

"The KA mixers have a specific limit on the amount of flour and the duration of mixing/kneading. If either of those restrictions are crossed, it voids the warranty. "

Whoa! That's seriously weird! Truth? How in hell would they know?

Sometimes this site really annoys me! All these electronic hoops everybody has to jump through to post anything. In the mean time, the "administrators' -- or whatever they euphemistically call themselves today -- allow months'-worth of spam and inappropriate postings to sail right by on countless threads.

OK....I'm over it.........but it continues, does it not?

I haven't used the mixer in the link below but I have heard nothing but great things about it. It holds 15 lbs of dough. There is a poster Ann_T on the cooking forum that has used it for years and makes amazing breads. You might post over there and ask her. I make 13 c of flour or 6 loaves all the time and use a 13 qt stainless bowl and knead by hand. I understand you don't want to knead by hand anymore.

You might really want to look into doing artisanal breads, The Fresh Loaf is a great place to start. You do French Folds and use either tiny amounts of commercial yeast or all wild yeast that you grow as a starter and the breads require very little intervention and no kneading at all. I regularly do 4 loaves at a time and it takes no energy or strength to do. Hope this helps and if you have questions I would be glad to answer. Do check out TFL also. Lots of info and also Ann of the cooking forum.

Here is a link that might be useful: DLX mixer

The DLX is the same as the Electrolux, right?

Yes it is.

Yes, sometimes known as the Electrolux Assistant.