Installing a furnace in your home is not a DIY project and should be done by a professional hvac contractor.

Sure you can buy a furnace online, but you can't buy the safety of your family if it's installed wrong.

My Goodman 2 stage gas unit came with excellent, VERY detailed installation instructions, pretty obviously aimed at owner/installers - If you can read, you can install one of those

Don

Don

Thanks for your reply. Several people here in IL had installed Goodman furnaces and had some issues, and I understand that they had quality problems in the past. But I understand that may have been corected now. However, I will keep Goodman as a serious option!

Aircooled

Sorry you feel that way!! Before you make comments like that you should understand the persons background. I've installed Oil fired furnaces, swamp coolers, radiant heated floors and dozen of furnaces over the years, and I'll put my installations up against ANY professional installer.

In the mean time I have located a distributor out of state where I can purchase some of the name brand furnaces.

The problem I have is I need to replace an existing 80 %140BTU furnace. Many of the furnace MFGs have stoped manufacturing such a large 80% furnace, as everyone is moving to 90%+ furnaces. This would make sense, however if I chose this option, the existing hot water heater is considerd an abandoned device and I must install a SS liner in the existing masonary chimney. (or) I can install a tankless water heater and exaust it out the side wall. The only problem with this is, due to where the furnace / WH tank is, we do not have sufficent room on the outside wall for fresh air intake(s) and two exaust vents.

I understand everyone is moving to 90%+ furnaces, but I haven't been inpressed with any of them. In my spare time, I work with a non-profit group and we install 90%+ furnaces in ALL the houses. Well guess what, over 50% of those furnaces have required the electronic board ($325-400)or multi-speed fan ($600) be replaced within the 1st 2 yrs. Going forward, we're purchasing a spare controller with each furnace as we go forward. As for my aging 35 Yr old furnace, ($ 200 for a replacement fan and fan controller).

Acording to the local inspector, It looks as if we use a large tankless WH (ie 196,000 BTUs) we can exaust it out the existing masonary chimney. I just wasn't looking at replacing both at. But shuch is life!!

Hiya Al...

I installed an oil-fired Crown lowboy warm-air furnace a few months ago. I am very satisfied with it.

Crown is a very easy company to work with. Just call the factory and ask for a local distributer. The VP of warranty claims informed me that Crown has no trouble with DIY installs. Just remember that if you break something, they will not cover it.

Be advised that if a legitimate failure does occur within the warranty period, you have to order and pay for the part out-of-pocket FIRST. You will also incur any labour to remove and install that part if you can't do it yourself. You ship the failed part to Crown for them to examine; they will credit you if the part was indeed faulty. If the part wasn't bad, you'll get nothing. You'll still have a broken furnace to boot - until you find out what's really wrong with it.

I'm not doing this to discourage you. You just have to be aware up-front that the manufacturer will not come down to fix your furnace if something goes wrong - even if it's a valid warranty issue. A professional install largely insulates the homeowner from these aggrivations.

If your still game, hit yourself in the head with a large hammer. This will simulate the headaches about to come your way.

Are you still with me...cool Then here's some advice from from my own DIY furnace install...

- Call your local building inspector and ask if you can legally do this. If not, game over.

- Make an estimate of how long it will take for the install. Now multiply by four.

- Go online and look at the install manual for the furnace you are interested in. Print it out, read it, and KNOW it. Make note of things you don't understand, and ask questions. If you can't grasp what's in the manual, this is not the job for you.

- Go to the building inspector and pull a permit. Bring photos of your current setup and ask if anything else needs upgrading along with the furnace. Codes may have changed since the original was put in, and may need to be addressed at this time. In my case, I needed to replace my bare copper oil line with covered line and add a vent alarm on the tank.

- Don't be afraid to ask the BI questions. DO NOT try to hide anything. He really won't bite. He's there to help. If that means turning down your request, than so be it.

- Look at your oil tank to see if it needs replacement (mine did).

- Before you remove your old furnace, SWITCH OFF THE BREAKER TO IT. Make sure that breakers to related equipment are also shut off. Use an AC probe or meter to verify there's no power.

- The scrap yard will take your fornace. They won't take your oil tank unless it's empty, cut in half, and clean of old oil.

- If you are replacing your oil tank, DO NOT transfer old oil to a new tank. It will cause the new tank to corrode prematurely.

- If you need a LOT of ductwork or supplies - like I did - try to find a wholesaler. They normally sell only to tradesmen, yet it's worth a shot. It's normally "don't ask, don't tell". They'll just ring it up as a "cash" sale. The worst they can do is say no. If they do, just leave. They have every right to refuse to sell to you. If you're only buying a few things, you're better off spending a little more at the big orange box.

- If you deal with a wholesaler, PLEASE learn the name of the parts you need. These guys don't have time to deal with someone who doesn't know the difference between a thimble and a collar.

- If you buy a wrong part from a wholesaler, congratulations. You now have a spare. Don't try to return parts you wind up not needing.

- Remember you are not fooling anyone at the wholesaler. Dont try to play the role of a pro. They'll see right through it. These guys don't need your business and be thankful they tolerate you.

- DO NOT use Teflon tape on ANY oil line connections. Oil breaks down Teflon. Over time, it will gum up your oil filter and oil burner. In fact, Beckett will not honour warranty an a burner contaminated in this way. Use a non-Teflon pipe dope, instead. Make sure it's rated for fuel oil.

- You will need new plenums to fit your furnace. Plenums are the ducts that go from the furnace to the main ductwork. The sizes vary greatly among furnaces, so attaching a new furnace to the old plenums almost never works. Have a sheet-metal shop make the plenums for you. Unless you're very good at taking measurements and isometric drawings, have them come to your home and do the measurements. Get a couple of estimates. Count on spending aroung 300 dollars for this. Make sure that the furnace is in the place you want it before any measurements are done.

- If your furnace does not light after three tries, it will enter "lock out". DO NOT reset it unless you figure out what caused the lockout in the first place. Purging the fuel line of air is a good place to start.

- If you do get it running, have it adjusted by a pro as soon as you can. Running a mal-adjusted furnace can foul up the nozzle, flue, electrodes, CaD cell, heat exchanger, or chimney. If you don't get it adjusted, and six months later your heat exchanger fries, don't expect a warranty replacement.

That's all I can think of for now. I'm sure the pros on this board will have more to add.

Good luck !

Marco

Noticed that Crown and Goodman were mentioned. They are both considered to be low end products, and they are more reasonably priced. Goodman was rated as the most problematic furnace you could buy by Consumer Reports. The reason being is that these manufacurers make thier product available for just about anyone to purchase (increasing sales by increasing available buyers). This leads to a high amount of improper insallations that lead to problems with the equipment. Just look at how hard it is to get ahold of a Goodman vs. say a Trane furnace. Trane wants to increase sales by upholding a perfect reputation as being the best made furnace (and holding a much higher percentage of proper insallations) I personally install Goodman furnaces and Crown boilers along with other brands and have had no problems with them. As a matter of fact Goodman just improved thier warranties to match the best in the industry.

Add a whole house surge protector and you will have a better chance of keeping the same PCB board. At least add surge protection on the 110v circuit.

So you have done a few installs? They should get easier to do. An average time with 2 men for a replacement should be 6-8 hours from the time you demo the old unit to the time you powerup the new unit. Think of where you had problems and anticipate solutions for future installs. For all of the consumer ratings, don't believe everything you read. Goodman probably sells 2 for each other brand with the exception of Carrier.

Using metal tape is the only way to seal duct for many years. I would not want to use mastic sealer around the coil. You need acess to the coil from time to time. Most older AH's are larger than the new equipment. Expect to make a transistion if you dont replace the plenum.

One of the greatest obstacles, is not having enough tools. A clampon meter would tell you where the electrical problem is, in seconds. It is a good idea to check the amp draw for the heaters and the motor circuits and record them on the installation book. Also make notes on any special fixes you do during the install. I would keep the install book and manual in a bag or envelope attached to the side of the furnace. It will always be there when it is needed.

BX kinda warned you about the HP. The furnace takes longer to install, but the outside equipment is more critical. When you solder the lines; vac and check for leaks carefully b4 opening the gas. It is a better solder job, when you purge with Nitrogen during the operation. At least purge the system b4 gassing it up. Otherwise you can expect problems. If your old system was a burn out, use an acid kit with the new system. It will protect against the acid ruining the oil, which will seize the compressor.

As you have also learned, it ain't rocket science, just time consuming. Be glad you are not doing it in 105f degree weather in an attic, with the family interrupting you during trying times. Especially when the ^&**%() thing won't work.

Higgins:

Daft Punk missed one other extremely important warning.

With the rash of damaged home claims that insurance carriers have had to deal with recently, they are looking harder than ever for reasons to deny claims.

If you make a mistake that damages property and/or kills someone, the insurance company will definitely want to charge their costs against the installer of the furnace that caused the problem.

When you do it yourself, your insurance carrier will definitely do its best to refuse to cover you if you do not have the required accreditation.

Good luck, but first and foremost, be safe.

Fairyprincess

Bob Brown, Draft Punk,Sawnt

Thanks for your reply and comments....

Installation should not be a problem. I have a retired AC person to charge the system. I just need to get the equipment in place and he will take care of the rest.

The good news is a replacement furnace is smaller and will be easy to work into the existing installation. As for tools, we have everything we need for making ductwork, pipe threading tools, and welder to make a platform for the replacement furnace.

Hiya Bob...

I need no stinkin' surge protectors :-D My Crown furnace was designed around the KISS principle...

- Old fashioned Honeywell mechanical limit switch - just move the stops around the dial.

- Old-school four-speed PSC blower motor. It draws a whopping 6 Amps at the third speed where I've set it. "Someday" I'll build a little circuit that steps through the fan speeds after it starts up - just like those fancy-schmancy variable-speed motor/controllers.

- A concession to the modern age was the burner control; it's got a microprocessor. A few more options would have been nice, such as a delayed inducer fan shut off. Ah well...less things for me to screw up.

I couldn't live without my Hunter seven-day programmable t-stat, tho'. I wouldn't know what to do if a surge killed it :-D

Peace.

Marco

Hello,
I think you are very smart to not need a whole house surge protector. I guess you don't have any electronics in the house. No TV, Radio, Stereo, Microwave oven, Cell phone charger, Telephones, Cable box, Dish antenna, Computers, Appliances with electronics, or any electronic Toys. In your garage you dont have a variable speed electric drill or any newer Craftsman shop tools. (newer than 15 years old) You don't use CF bulbs. None of your lights use a electronic dimmer switch You don't use Christmas twinkle lights. You are a true Luddite.

I've had most all of those in my house for the past 15 or 20 years Bob with no surge protectors and no problems

I guess if I DID have a surge protector in use all of that time, I would probably swear that it works great . . . . since I never had a problem ;-)

Don

Surge protection is a good idea for furnaces and other electronics, it doesen't need to be fancy, just as long as it's there. CFL's are considered throwaways and are easier to replace when a surge kills one. I found that unplugging cell phone and drill chargers when I am not using them prolongs their life.

Although not a liscensed and insured contractor, I have done several seccessful furnace installations, I always follow manufacturer's insrtuctions to the letter and double-check everything. I also have had more extensive training, testing and certification than the average DIY homeowner with a book they bought at Home Depot.

Daft punk,
Where did you get your furnace? And did you get a good price?
Was wondering if you could get it online.
I am interested in a hotwater heating system and Crown boilers look good.
Thanks
Joe

I live in Rhode Island. I originally planned to purchase from an dealer that sells through e-bay. When I asked about a specific customer complaint posted on e-bay, they refused to sell me the furnace. That was odd...considering that they had responded to that complaint by inviting anyone to ask them about it. So I called their bluff and got the boot.

So I recommend staying away from online retailers for such a purchase. Especially the very large red-white-and-blue seller on Long Island. They are rude and VERY easily offended.

After this fiasco, I called Crown directly to ask for a dealer in my area. I was connected to someone - can't remember his name - who helped me out. I told him it was a DIY install. He gave me the name and number of a seller that would work with me.

So I called the seller and asked that the furnace be delivered "directly to the house". In my case, delivery was free. I paid for mine by giving my credit card info over the phone.

I paid just under 1500 dollars for my furnace. However, it's forced air. Your's will likely be more because it's a boiler.

Here's some advice for when the furnace arrives by truck...

- Take a half-day off from work. Most suppliers will not deliver after hours.

- Be sure to inspect the furnace for any damage when it arrives.

- The Becket burner is in a separate box. Make sure the driver doesn't leave it on the truck.

- The barometric damper is in a separate box, as well. However, it's the cheapest Field Controls unit made. Spend 30 bucks and get the calibrated Field Controls damper, instead.

- You may have to help the guy unload and move the furnace into my basement.

- Clean up the area where you plan on installing the new furnace.

- You'll need a good hand truck to move the furnace exactly where you want it. The driver won't stick around for you to figure that out.

I cannot tell you if Crown makes a good boiler. However, I am satisfied with their forced air furnace. It uses a lot of standard components and is easy to service. However, the Crown did have some issues...

- The supplied barometric damper is a POS.

- Despite what the manual says, my furnace did NOT ship with the burner installed. I had to do that myself.

- The manual says also that the furnace comes with leveling legs. Mine did not.

- The supplied Honeywell burner control is the least expensive out there. No DIP-switch options whatsoever.

I hope this helps.

Good Luck !

Marco

Marco,

Thanks so much for taking the time to write about your experience in this matter. It looks like your project was very successful and you saved a bit of cash as well.

I am in the process of lining up a suitable distributer(Looking for an 80,000 BTUH CROWN hot water boiler), since a few of them that I contacted so far wouldn't sell to anybody without a HVAC license and one jacked the price up well beyond reasonable. So far I have one possibility at $1650 plus 6% sales tax (CT), free shipping. There was one offered online Ebay) from an outfit in Florida with an excellent record which interestingly asked for three closed bids after throwing out a suggested price of $1990 plus $300 shipping, so I think I may make a low bid and see what happens.

Joe

I had my boiler replaced last spring after the need for heating was over. mine was not the average DIY job. I had a co-worker here at school who is a master plumber order my boiler from a local supply house. Then he helped me remove the old one and install the new one, over the corse of a few weeks. other plumbing upgrades were also done during that time as well. I got a Burnham Gas boiler, a series 2h boiler I believe. the boiler cost me about $2550.00 I can't recall the size but it was around 180,000 or 190,000 btuh unit. that included a dampner made by field controls a taco circulator and electronic igintion. I was changing from a gravity hot water system so I needed to add a flow control valve, expansion tank, air purger and autofill valve. we also installed ball valves on the return pipe to the boiler and both sides of the curculator so that if there is ever trouble I can work on the boiler or pump with out draining all the water from the system.

I had never done HVAC work before other than changing filters and cleaning ducts before. Its was not that rocket science but not something I would do with out some know how first or seasoned help like I had. for me it worked out good I saved some moeny and learned alot by working on it too.

Joeplumb, check your email box, I sent you the name of a supply house in Waterbury that deals with the public.

Hey Joe, you got a message from me too.

The Rhody supplier I bought my furnace from has another branch in Norwich.

Be safe!

Marco

Mrhvac and Marco,

Thanks for the info but so far I am having trouble retrieving the emails you sent so I can't comment.

I'm still searching; in the meantime I am designing the conrols, loops and zones and looking for baseboard heaters radiators, valves etc. etc. So the boiler purchase can wait.

Joe