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Help me decide between Trane bids

17 years ago

I would love to get some input as to what system would be best for my situation.

I live in the state of Utah, and currently my gas bill is $120 year round and my electric is about $320 year round. I currently have an 80% efficient carrier furnace which seems to work fine but has a dinging sound every once in a while. AC broke completely and needs to be replaced. Both are 15 years old.

I received several bids, and I have decided to go for a Trane system because of their financing terms.

SYSTEM 1

100 BTU 95% two stage furnace (TUH2C100A9V4VAA)XV95

16 seer AC XL161 4TTX6048B1000A XL16i

4 ton Trane R-410A coil 4TXCB048BC3HCA

Multi stage 7 day programable auto changeover

$10,315 before rebates

$7,315 after rebates (including tax rebates)

SYSTEM 2

Trane XV80 TUD100R9V5K

XL161 cooling 4TTX6048B1000A

5 ton coil (seems to be non-Trane to meet tax rebate): 4TE5066021027U

$8633 before rebate

$6133 after rebate (including tax rebate)

I live in a two story home with also a finished basement. About 25 windows, front of house facing North. About 4000 square feet.

I am a single Mom and have absolutely no one who can help me decide, and I am going nuts trying to make the right choice.

1: should I replace the furnace?

2: Is there a better combo out there that would my needs better/cheaper?

3: Do I need the 16i AC or is the 15 a better choice?

4: are these reasonable bids (it also includes putting an extra vent into my bedroom ceiling, the room that gets the hottest as it has 2 windows facing West)

Would LOVE input!!!

As a PS: I am more concerned with cooling than with heating. Never had a problem getting my house warm enough. Cooling it sufficiently has been the problem.

Comments (14)

  • 17 years ago

    If they put an extra supply diffuser in the bedroom there needs to be a return that sightly exceeds the supply air volume.

    The quality of the installation will be the most important part, along with an optimal ductwork system & airflow.

    I'll let the other guys provide you with their input.

    Learn all you can from my linked pages before you make any decisions. - udarrell

    Here is a link that might be useful: Sizing AC & Duct System

  • 17 years ago

    Thank you for your response. This is all very overwhelming to me. I just now had another bid done, and he actually thought a HP may be a good idea as well (Lennox).

    Can someone address the two types of furnaces for me as well? Is the 95 worth it? I plan on staying in my house another 7 years or so (at least).

  • 17 years ago

    I'm not a pro, but here are my thoughts.

    You pay so little for gas and electric, I'm not sure you're going to get any return at all on the higher efficiency units, AC or furnace. I really would not invest in a 95% furnace if your gas cost is as little as you say.

    I would go with an XR13 AC unit, and delay the furnace purchase, or go with an XR90 or XB90 furnace if you decide you want a new furnace. Since you apparently run the furnace so little, the XB90 would be my choice. I have two XB80 furnaces in my 12 year old home, and they're still going strong.

    On the other hand, assuming heat pumps work well in your area, you could just to go with an XR13 heat pump and call it a day.

    Again, since you've indicated your total energy cost only runs $440 per year, I don't see putting money in higher prices systems as being worth it at all.

  • 17 years ago

    Christine, the energy figures you quoted.... are those the total energy charges you paid for the year or the monthly average? If you are on Utah Plunder & Loot I would guess that is a monthly figure. For a 4,000 sq. foot house, it would make sense, unless you are burning a ton of wood.

  • 17 years ago

    Oh, I am sorry....what I mean by year round is that I am on an equal payment plan. The amount is the same year round, every month.

  • 17 years ago

    I just had one more bid done. He recommended a bigger blower (5 ton) and a bigger coil than the bids I quoted above. He said if I decided to go for the smaller coil and blower he would walk away from the job, as he did not think that was sufficient. The one problem area I have in my house is the master bedroom which is on the 2nd floor. In the summer it gets hot and I have a hard time getting it cool enough to where I am comfortable at night. He thinks a bigger blower is what it would take to get that area covered. He is the only one who has mentioned that at all....

  • 17 years ago

    Ok, that clarifies things. Your rates aren't cheap, then. You monthly energy costs averaged out are $440 per month. I'm guessing your winters are cold, dropping below zero during January and February at times and then experiencing high 80 to mid 90 degree summers with mild fall and springs. (Probably close to what I had when I lived in southeast Idaho 25 years ago.)

    A heat pump with be considerably more efficient and use less electricity than an electric furnace, but since I think your electric rates are pretty steep (could you post your actual rates including delivery charges? better yet, give us total KWH used and total actual electric charges so we can see your rate. Same wth the gas whether in CCF or therms and total gas charges.)we need to know what you are actually paying.

    Gas and AC may be the best depending upon the rates. I'm almost afraid that a HP would be a "push" against the natural gas because of your electric rates. Need to see what you're actually paying during the heating season and not just an average. Your January, February and march bills would help, if you don't mind sharing.

  • 17 years ago

    The XL15i is a great unit, especially for heat pumps. I'm not a big fan of the XL16i, and would not recommend it for a heat pump. For A/C, it should be fine, but don't expect a huge difference out of the 2 stage operation with it, since from what I hear it's still as much as 80% capacity in stage 1.

    If dehumidification is important, skip the XL16i and go with the XL15i and VisionPRO IAQ (Honeywell) thermostat in my opinion, which can control the blower speed to dehumidify.

    Not sure why one dealer would want a bigger blower and bigger coil. It's still gotta be setup for a 4 ton if that's what's being used. If he wants to go to a 5 ton without checking ductwork and ensuring it's adequate, and doing a load calc to determine sizing, I would "walk away" from him. :)

  • 17 years ago

    Christine, a couple of other things...

    Did the folk who gave you the bids do a Manual J and a Manual D to determine heat loss cals and duct sizing when giving you the quotes? If they didn't, insist upon that. It's the only way systems can be properly sized.

    2. What are your insulation levels? If you are not at least R-49 you should do that first. And since your upstairs bedroom gets much warmer, I would recommend stapling radiant barrier foil to your rafters. (www.atticfoil.com) It's inexpensive and will make a tremendous difference is keeping your upstairs cool. It leveled out my upstairs/downstairs 6 degree difference to 1 degree. If you attend church down there, I'm sure there are plenty of folk who would be willing to help you out with a project like that if you aren't inclined to DIY.

  • 17 years ago

    To address some of the points all of you have brought up (and thanks so much for that!!!):

    Temperatures:
    Summers can get up to 104, but very low humidity. Winters do not bother me, I like a cool house.

    Bills:
    I am on equal payment plans and do not even open my bills. Shame on me. I know there is probably a way of getting them, I will check into that.

    Ryan:
    That actually makes sense. If I am understanding you correctly you are saying why get a bigger blower and coil than the furnace itself? I assume you are hinting that it would be ineffective. His bid had a 120 ton (?) furnace, while the other bid a 100 ton. I think they all said that right now I have a 130 ton furnace and a 5 ton AC (which caused my pipes to freeze constantly in the past few years).

    Speedymonk:
    I think some may have done that. A few were impressive with their gadgets and laptops and computer programs. Duct sizing I am not sure of. Do they have to crawl into he attic to check that? If so, none of them did that. As far as insulation is concerned, I have absolutely no clue. I dare say it is lacking. My electric bills jumped from $180 equal payment plan to $340 about a year and a half ago (about the same time my AC started having problems).

    One last questions for all of you:
    Is there an advantage to replacing the furnace now, or should I just wait until it breaks before I replace it?

  • 17 years ago

    I'd wait on replacing the furnace for one major reason. If your insulation is substandard and you replace the furnace now, it will likely be incorrectly sized. Do your insulation now -- if you need it-- and check for leaks around door jams, windows, etc. Then you can get your furnace/Ac sized properly.

    Do you also have isulation between the main floor and the basement? My home in Idaho did and that was nice. You get heat loss through the floor as well as the ceiling.

  • 17 years ago

    If you have a 5 ton A/C and the pipes have frozen, good chance you don't have the ductwork capability of moving 5 tons of air, and another 5 ton when not necessary will be just as inefficient. If I'm understanding you correctly. I think you need to look for a company who will do the load calc. and look at your ductwork.

  • 17 years ago

    Yes, none of the companies suggested I put in another 5 ton unit. All of them recommended a 4 ton.

  • 17 years ago

    Attempt to look at other brands besides Trane and I know there was a mention of Lennox.
    The dealers should all be able to provide you different financing options. I know some companies only push one product to meet their Co-Op guidelines, but make sure they are giving you options.
    When a customer specifically asks me to quote a specific system I always do so, however I give them options. With all the different brands it is hard to keep all of them in perspective.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Advantage Air Mechanical