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scootermom_gw

Could you help w/ my layout please?

18 years ago

Hello everyone IÂve been lurking for quite a while and am now trying to come up with an optimal layout for our kitchen redo.

Some background:

House built in early Â60Âs, suburban split-level (traditional in style). Overall dimensions of the cooking area: about 8Â x 10Â. Eating/pantry area is about 5Â x 2Â, with a 3Â x 12Â traffic lane connecting the cooking and eating areas. Many options abound for moving interior walls and doorways (could be fun for you GW-ers!).

Family: Me, my husband, 3 kids ages 4-10. We are very casual, laid-back people. We are cluttery people.

Cooking style: We cook 3 meals a day + snacks. We use a lot of fresh veggies & fruit, but a lot of pantry items as well. I love to bake, but have never felt deprived with only one oven (actually right now it only has one rack, and that doesnÂt bother me either). No preference between gas range and gas cooktop. Microwave used almost every day  though about half the time, I go from countertop to MW rather than fridge/freezer to microwave.

How many cooks? Usually one cook, sometimes two (one cooking/prepping, one cleaning/fixing drinks, or sometimes both working on the same dish).

What stays: NOTHING. Our 10-yr-old top-mount fridge will move to the basement (where I currently make several trips a day to the big freezer and auxiliary pantry). Everything else can go (floors, countertops, appliances, cabinets, kitchen table, chairs and lighting).

Kitchen wants/needs: I value function over form. I want things that are non-fussy, easy to clean, require little-to-no maintenance, and are pretty much disaster-proof. My knees and back veto any hard flooring. Once I get past my layout woes, I would love some help w/ aesthetics because I have NO sense of style.

Appliances: top-mount fridge (maybe side-by-side if that works better), 4 gas burners, an oven, microwave (maybe an Advantium). Would like a double sink, but doubt we have room.

Entertaining: Always very casual. Usually just a few people, but a few times a year, we have 10-25 people over. These tend to be families, so weÂll set up a buffet and seat people at the kitchen table and the dining room. We also entertain groups outside in summer.

Dumping Grounds: We enter the house from the driveway through the kitchen, so very often, laptops, instrument cases, backpacks, shoes and coats get dumped in the kitchen near the door. Most of it gets put away soon after, but some of that stuff camps there for a long time (i.e. kids want to leave musical instruments near the door so they donÂt forget them in the a.m.).

Traffic: Major lane of traffic from the driveway door to the front hall. This carries people coming into the house, kids coming in for a snack/drink/hug, etc. My cooking area also has a lane of traffic running through it  and the stove is across that lane from the sink. This lane is not as heavily traveled, but the sink/stove distance bothers me  if I have a child setting the table or doing fetch-n-carry for me right before mealtime, I get nervous about draining hot pots.

Problems: See Traffic and Dumping Grounds (above). Lack of landing space near the stove is also a problem  see current layout, below  our range is next to a tall wall-oven cabinet and has only a 12" cabinet on the other side. Empty walls in eating area beg to be used more efficiently (now we have a few melamine bookcases, a little phone stand, and cabinets, desk, message center  right now itÂs wasted space filled up w/ a few inefficient standalone pieces.

What I like: I like the peninsula. ItÂs too long now (28" from fridge), but itÂs where I stand most of the time  I spend lots of time prepping/chopping/mixing and thatÂs where I do it. I can also see down into the family room from there, and can talk to people sitting at the table. It keeps people out of my cooking zone, and even though it theoretically boxes me in a little and hinders trips to the pantry, that doesnÂt bother me (just used to it after 14 years!). My kids can pull a chair up to the other edge of the peninsula and help me, or they can drag the chair around to my side and help there. IÂm not married to the peninsula, but I do like it. The peninsula cab is only 16" wide, I think it was custom. And I like our big eat-in area.

Our existing layout is below  one sqare on the grid = 1 sq. ft. The bay window is 27" from the floor.

IÂve been to HD w/ my measurements and had a few non-KD GCs here, and they *all* want to put my fridge in the eating area, which strikes me as a BAD idea. Can anyone help improve my layout? Though IÂm generally happy as is, I canÂt help but think that you GWers might come up w/ some simple changes that will really improve things. Feel free to move walls and doors -- one GC wanted to angle the wall btwn the kitchen and LR/DR to add some space and open things up, which was nice except for the fridge in the eating area.

My "Sweeby test" answer:

I want my kitchen to feel simple, casual, and warm. I want to feel calm, cheerful and organized when I walk in. I want to be able to see and interact w/ the people in the eating area when IÂm prepping. I want all the materials to be easy to clean, and require little or no maintenance, and be durable.

Here's the layout (sorry if it's big - I resized it in photobucket but it still seems large to me):

{{gwi:1572075}}

Comments (19)

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    What a great requirements list!
    And your layout showing adjoining spaces and traffic lanes is very helpful.

    To solve your 'dumping ground' problems, what about installing some attractive wooden 'mud room lockers' along the bottom right hand side of your dining area? Or coat hooks on top and a lift-top seat below? Or if space is tighter than it looks, integrate bulk 'dump storage' into a banquette seat? Lots of possibilities - but that seems to be a logical place for it. Shallow cabinets on the other side of the table could also work.

    Your main traffic lane seems to be reasonably well located, with major cooking and prep on one side and casual dining on the other. I'd leave that pretty much alone since it seems to be working reasonably well for you.

    If you're on a pier & beam foundation (not a slab)or basement and plumbing is easy to move, I might consider moving the clean-up zone (sink & DW) to where your range is now, and moving the range over to where your sink is now and add a prep sink near the peninsula corner. That eliminates the hectic trips across the kitchen aisle, but it does cost you about 18" of counter space and an 18" lower cabinet. You've got a relatively small space -- can you spare it?

    I'm curious to see what others will come up with --

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Is the FR on the other side of the west kitchen wall? I have a couple of suggestions, but they depend on where the FR is.

    Also, you say "Feel free to move walls and doors". Does this mean exterior doors as well? How about the bay window...could you change it's size or move it? Is it built out over the ground or is it part of the foundation?

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    you have two dining spaces in a very small area. Is there any chance one of them could go? If so, it is possible that one of the many KD on the forum could use that space for a large kitchen area and have the dining area open up to the kitchen too. Possiby keeping the peninnsula that you like.

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I played around with it this morning. Here's what I liked the best.






  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    What did I do? I took out the bar because it chopped up your kitchen and was an invitation to everyone that entered to load up the counters. You also do not have a lot of room when you come in the door or pass between counters. Space is a luxury and your kitchen will live larger with that small peninsular gone. You have plenty of work space to the left of the sink to work, albeit not facing the table.

    I did move the the wall to the DR back a few inches and possibly moved that doorway to the DR, too. I moved around the closet and door ways near the hall, but left all exterior doors intact. Your kitchen now flows better and you have plenty of room to add a leaf to your table when you have more company during holidays. You also have a broom closet that may not seem very big, but with the right set up inside, you could hang quite a bit of 'stuff and keep an upright vacuum. Also, you now have a pantry. Maybe not in the most convenient spot, but you have one. I thought about moving your broom closet to the hall but I didn't want another door in the foyer. These are not too dramatic of changes that could not work. I had another design, but believe me, this worked the best. As for your DR, it's tiny, however, you probably don't use it that often. It's up to you. I would probably put a pocket door there and have a small office during the non holiday times of the year.

    Also, you have a convenient trash compactor to empty food from plates to put in the sink and empty out the 'fridge when food's gotta' go.

    Behind the kitchen table I have a small 48" w 12" deep with a counter that could serve as a small buffet of sorts to hold napkins, salt and pepper, and myriads of items underneath. I would have three doors here. You could also add drawers. I did something like this in my bathroom and kitchen, too. It holds medicines, paper, odds and ends to keep handy, but not lost in deep drawers. You'd be surprised at how handy a shelf like this could be. Here are two photos of my broom closet and small cabinet to give you ideas on how useful that small area can be. My broom closet is only 30"W x 12"D. I've since added an over the door pocket shoe organizer to hold misc. stuff like tape, batteries, small tools, packing tape, etc. You'd be surprised at how wonderful a small closet like this can be. Keeps drawers and under cabinets cleared of 'stuff'.



  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Everything I drew is to scale. Here's the drawing using a counter in your breakfast area with shallow cabinets behind the table; they are the same size as the one I shown in the above photo in my Master Bath.

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Wow, this is cool, getting help from some GW Kitchen rock stars! Thanks -- I love the food for thought!

    Sweeby: I like the mudroom locker idea. I was thinking about that (e.g. LL Bean, Pottery Barn) as a temporary solution during the "backpack years" (we plan to be in this house possibly forever). My other thought...possibly wacky...but it would be nice to have some matching cabinetry, since we're getting new stuff anyway. Would it make sense to get some base and wall cabinets, and somehow have them w/out doors (at least for now)...they would be sort of like cubbies, that the kids could put their backpacks into, and we could add a few big rectangular baskets as a catch-all for smaller items.

    Re: sink and stove...I think a prep sink would take up too much space, unfortunately...would it be really weird to have a corner cooktop in the rear corner of the peninsula side, and a corner sink in the front corner? I'm not sure if that would even fit, w/ the dishwasher. That would leave room for a CD fridge on the other side, and lots of counter space (and wall oven, I guess). But it interrupts my peninsula.

    Buehl: On the west side is our living room. It's not "formal" per se...hardwoods, leather furniture, a few big bookcases full of books, games, toys, and our digital piano. It's more like a second family room (w/ no TV). A neighbor w/ our the same model house knocked out the wall btwn kitchen and LR, and put in an angled wall w/ a big wide opening (barstools on the LR side) which opens up the kitchen a lot (but they had to give up their front hall closet to fit the fridge and pantry). Re: moving exterior doors...one GC talked about moving our exterior kit door over, so I guess it may be doable. The bay window is not part of the foundation -- the molding starts 27" above the kitchen floor. It was added well after the house was built.

    footballmom: Hmm...I am a little hesitant to have no formal/separate dining room (anyone else feel that way?). My husband thought what if we reconfigured the kitchen to include peninsula or island seating for a few people...moving the two kitchen doors a little closer to the window might increase the kitchen space for that kind of seating, since the traffic lane would be closer to the windows. We could add some base cabs or window seat w/ storage in front of the windows...maybe I will sketch up something like that.

    sherilynn: I like that angled closet. We had had considered putting a pantry in that spot before but it always seemed too boxy...that angled closet softens things a lot more. Would that and the pantry be something a carpenter/GC would build, or cabinetry? I would even think about pushing that wall btwn LR and kit out to steal a foot or so from the LR to make room for (I think I gotta have it) my little peninsula on the sink side of your drawing (it might be goofy but I'd trade the double sink for it). Hmmm...what about changing the wall where the fridge/broom closet is, and angling the fridge?

    Ok, I will try to sketch out a few of these ideas....thanks! Any other thoughts/ideas appreciated as well!

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Hi. Just thought I'd add/share a little different perspective on the formal/informal eating space issue. Personally, if I had your tight kitchen space, I would take over one of those table areas for kitchen work space.

    When my DH and I bought our first house, it had an eat-in bay nook in the kitchen as well as a separate dining space. We used the dining table 2X a year in the 4 years we lived there (i.e., I can count only 8 times when we sat down to eat at that table).

    In the last two houses we've owned, we have had only a dining room -- no kitchen table (previous house had a raised bar peninsula that my DD liked to sit at, but no one else did). The dining room gets used EVERY day. Breakfast, lunch, dinner, snacks, and sometimes projects (but messy projects are for the kitchen counters or the back patio). I love that the dining room gets used all the time. We don't have any un-used or rarely used rooms in our house.

    The family room has all of our books, games, computers and work spaces. The living room has the TV and reading area. The guest room is used daily as a play room (cleaned up for the occasional grandma visit). There is no powder room, just a guest bathroom off of the family room, which is next to the laundry closet (this is a much improved situation than our previous house, which had a powder room without a shower -- no place for guests). The bathroom provides our utility sink, guest shower and powder room.

    I am a big fan of Sarah Susanka's Not So Big House approach to living. When space is limited, why leave a whole room that could be a vital part of your everyday life sitting empty except for the few days a year when we get the formal china out? If you haven't taken a look at Sarah Susanka's books (my favorite was Creating the Not So Big House), I highly recommend it.

    Also a note of caution on the layout that Sherilynn provided. While it is generally a very nice layout, you will need to add some space between the DW and the adjacent cabinet run so that the door will open without interfering with the cabinet doors/drawers/knobs or pulls on the other wall.

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I was playing a bit also.......not as fancy though : (
    {{gwi:1572097}}{{gwi:1572098}}
    {{gwi:1572099}}
    Depending on how much interior walls you want to/ can move, no closet just hooks near the front door?
    {{gwi:1572100}}

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Can that door from the driveway move at all?

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Actually, I should have mentioned that we eat in our dining room every day. I shouldn't call it a "formal" dining room, because it's not "formal". If someone bought the house, they'd recognize it as a dining room, separate from the kitchen (though it is completely open to the LR).

    When my kids were little, we ate mostly in the kitchen. Now that they're bringing home STUFF and dumping it on or next to the table, we eat in the dining room. Lately I've been more strict about decluttering and not dumping stuff in the kitchen -- so we're back to eating in the kitchen sometimes.

    Our dining table can hold 12 people when expanded, and sometimes we have that filled, plus people eating in the kitchen, too. So I'd like to have someplace people can sit in the kitchen, even if it's not a table.

    Seskatchewan girl: wow, what a lot of work...I will have to fetch my bifocals and take a close look!

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    My preference is island seating (maybe lowered?) and use all of that lovely space for kitchen, instead of a teeny, tiny kitchen and two giant eating areas.

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I like where Saskatchewan girl was going with utilizing the space in her last plan. If you leave things as they are (2 eating spaces with kitchen in between) and eliminate the peninsula, as has been suggested, I'd make sure the counter isn't chopped up so much that you all of your work areas are 24" or smaller (corners don't count). You need at least one 3 ft or larger. My big concern about the peninsula is your mention of pulling up chairs to the far side of it, which puts the 'sitters' right in the main traffic path.

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Divamum Re: door to the driveway -- I think it can be moved though I'm not sure how $$$ it would be.

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    rhome410 - Our peninsula doesn't have much overhang, so when people pull chairs up, it's just one or two kids for as long as they're helping me prepare something, and then the chairs go back. But I like the peninsula because I can converse w/ whoever's on the other side while doing stuff -- face-to-face. I can also see downstairs into the family room -- not the whole room, but enough to monitor what the kiddos are doing down there. Not necessarily defending my peninsula, just stating a desire for connection -- and I am getting some ideas from everybody about how to do that...e.g. Seskatchewangirl's idea w/ the island.

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Move the back door...
    {{gwi:1572101}}

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Ok, thanks for all the input...I'm going to take some of my new kitchens and make a few breakfasts and dinners in them, and then clean up afterwards....

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Any load bearing wall issues!!!!!

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Two GCs who've been here say no issues w/ load bearing walls.