At $16k that WaterFurnace would be a real bargain! I would do it (with the desuperheater & buffer tank!) while all the grants are still available- especially since you plan to stay there at least 15 years. Look at it from the cost differential of anything else you may install & the $16k. At todayÂs energy costs payback will be very short. Interest rates are also very favorable.

The fossil fuel alternative is not as green, will not last as long, will have higher maintenance costs and will have to be replaced again long before the geothermal. This is because the geothermal equipment operates at low temperatures, unlike the gas furnace. High temperatures are like the candle that burns twice as bright. We all know what to expect out of that.

Unlike conventional HVAC equipment, there are no outdoor mechanical units with geothermal; another reason why they last so long. In todayÂs heat my geothermal heat pump operates in its own air-conditioned comfort. It never sees rain, snow, extreme heat/cold or direct sun. There are no unsightly or noisy mechanical units outside anyoneÂs windows, decks, etc.

No other system will add as much resale value to your home and you wonÂt have to pay monthly hook-up fee to the gas company while youÂre air-conditioning. Does that appeal to your pragmatic side?

N.B. Some important things to know:

In order to receive ANY grant, you will need to hire a CGC Accredited Residential Designer, a CGC Accredited Geothermal Installer AND a CGC Accredited Driller. All that in addition to having heat gain/loss calculations done to the PROPER Canadian CSA standard; this is in addition to the two EcoENERGY evaluations.

Guess what? That grant procedure may have eaten up most if not all of your grant money! ThatÂs the bad news. The good news is that youÂll get an excellent, ÂCGC Certified installation, reliable, efficient, with a higher resale value for your home.

IMPO

SR

I would have to agree with SR, with one observation: there are other systems than Waterfurnace and I would look at them.

Good luck and keep us posted.

M

I would have to agree with Mark too. There are other brands to consider as well as other groundÂsource technologies, namely DX (Direct Expansion or Direct Exchange). In fact there is a terrific Canadian company that manufactures DX GSHPs, Nordic. They are some of the best-built HPs I ever seen.

SR

Here is a link that might be useful: Nordic DX Series GSHP

I too have looked into Geo systems but at my age I would never see the pay back...however I did find the following in my search and I wonder what others think about this. I think if I had to spring for something this is what I would go for.

I live in Connecticut so this would fit right in temp and all. Hope this helps a little, Good luck

http://www.gotohallowell.com/

Al

"In order to receive ANY grant, you will need to hire a CGC Accredited Residential Designer, a CGC Accredited Geothermal Installer AND a CGC Accredited Driller. All that in addition to having heat gain/loss calculations done to the PROPER Canadian CSA standard; this is in addition to the two EcoENERGY evaluations."

Well, I would hope all of this would be included in the bid... I know that included the driller. The owner who came out and gave me the bid got the grant for himself when he switched out his "old" geothermal system for the Envision

I might ask him to sharpen his pencil a bit...

I have checked out Nordic. they look interesting, but there are no local contractors. the other system that is available locally is the Canadian brand of the Climatemaster: Next Energy. i might get a quote there too.

Acadia: looks neat, but is a little too new, and for the price, I would rather get the Amana system i mentioned earlier. The gas furnace would probably only be used intermittantly 3 months of the year...
I

one concern i had is the cooling sizing. with the 4 ton unit, even in the 1st stage, I believe the system is oversized. that's the problem with sizing to heat loads... do any of you find short cycling or humidity problems in the winter?
It will be real interesting to see efficiency #s of geos if they can incorperate modulating/variable compressor technology like the minisplits or the nordyne line.

Re: armstrr

"Well, I would hope all of this would be included in the bid... I know that included the driller. The owner who came out and gave me the bid got the grant for himself when he switched out his "old" geothermal system for the Envision"

It all depends WHEN he got his grant. Everything changed April 1, 2008. Prior to that date, you could get a rebate filling out the ÂShort Form and without all the principals being CGC accredited. After that date EVERYTHING has now changed; long (and I mean long [form & procedure]!), form required!

Canada is now recognized as having the highest standard in the world for a ÂCertified geothermal installation. This, along with the grants comes with a price. I strongly urge those wanting this option (which I highly recommend) to do their homework so that youÂre fully cognizant of the game plan before you even start.

No one is giving money away for free; neither is anyone giving away their time for free. A premium will have to be paid for a premium installation, designed, drilled & installed by only those professionals that have put in the time and money to educate themselves, purchase the right equipment, tools (including software), machinery and materials.

Many are under the impression that they can have a CAN/CSA ÂCGC Certified system installed for about $20k and then get back about $6~7k in grants. I donÂt think that will happen. If it does, when you get your rebate cheques, please contact me. I desperately want to hire those people!

IMPO

SR

SR:

here is the response when i asked about CGC accreditation.

"You are correct, since April 1, 08 new requirements have been in place. Since we have been in the ground source business for more that 20 years, you can be assured we are well qualified and have continued to keep up to date with all certifications. On staff at Abram we have a Canadian Geoexchange certified designer and installer. The required course and certification for drillers is 6-7 months away, however our driller has been registered to provide the drilling services until such time the Canadian Geoexchange Coalition can offer this course. With this new requirement, you will also have to register your system with the Canadian Geoexchange Coalition. There is a fee of $125.00 to do this. We will provide the proper paperwork to do so.
Hope this helps. Let me know how we can further be of assistance."

Hi, I was looking at a Nordic 4 ton unit (after all calculations for Heat loss for a 2000sf house built in the late 60's, new windows, attic insulation R60 etc)and because I also wanted to add an additional 500sf to my Geothermal unit I am now looking at a 5 ton unit.
This recommended size was pretty consistent for all quotes (Nordic, Climate Master, Water Furnace etc). You did not mention if you had other quotes and whether they also suggested the same size unit?
Shark08

Re: shark08

"Hi, I was looking at a Nordic 4 ton unit (after all calculations for Heat loss for a 2000sf house built in the late 60's, new windows, attic insulation R60 etc)and because I also wanted to add an additional 500sf to my Geothermal unit I am now looking at a 5 ton unit."

Yes you should always do a heat load calculation, but 5-tons for a house that size sounds too big to me! Read the Nordic info more carefully. YouÂll see that they are sized to the square footage ABOVE the basement.

SR

Thanks SR, we did do a heat loss calculation and it came to 4 ton and with the additional sq ft they suggested a 5 ton would be more appropriate. I was just suggesting that you may have to look at the proposal for 4 ton versus 5 ton. Easier now than later.
Thanks

RRe: shark08

With a 2-speed compressor & variable speed blower you should be fine with a 5-ton. You may also consider the Nordic 5-ton Âsplit geothermal unit and go with the Carrier Infinity 5-ton air handler system. This is an excellent option that weÂve installed many times for a variety of reasons.

If you have installers in your area that know what they are doing, I would also choose the Nordic DX HP, much easier to install, less drilling, less mess, less trenching, better heat transfer with the ground, no fluids, no anti-freeze, no circulating pumps  just a fantastic machine and a brilliant design!

Just curious, what software was used to do the load calcs?

IMO

SR