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Replacing old A/C unit

17 years ago

Hi all,I was reading the forum for last 5-6 days and finally decided to ask a question:

My 15-year old Janitrol went bad last week and I need to replaced with a new one.

Some background - 2000 sqf ranch (400 sqf garage); in Hampton Roads , VA; on a slab; insulation - somewhere in the middle;no problem with humidity.

current A/c unit - 2.5 tons (when was working was able to keep up during the summer), separate heating unit in the attic - 15kW.

Looking to replace outdoor unit with a Heat Pump and the airhandler (still the original one is in the attic from 1976 when the house was build) with a variable speed one, also programmable thermostat. Having a Tax Credit is a good and desired.

Now quotes:

1)

ARI#3024337 Active Systems

TRANE XL15i WEATHERTRON

HP - 4TWX5030A1

Airhandler - 4TEE3F40B1

Heater - BAYHTR141000c

802 Thermostat

my question is : the airhandler is for 4 ton outdoor unit , not for 2,5 tone. Is there any problems with that?

price: $6790

optional:Trane 10 year extended labor warranty, $ 545.00.

Quote #2

Goodman

ARI# 1443989 Active Systems

HP - SSZ140301A*

Airhandler - ASPF303616B*+TXV

Thermostat - HW Vision Pro 8000

price - $5906

Step-up to 16 SEER (didn't specify SSZ16 or DSZ16)- +$650

Both will keep existing lineset and flush it.

Also asked for a quote from a reputable York dealer but the quote is somehow unclear. We spoke about Affinity T8 but on paper I got a quote for Latitude LX with no specific model # for HP or airhandler and price $7700.

Comments (9)

  • 17 years ago

    The reason you were quoted a larger size indoor coil (4 ton) is likely for efficiency reasons. A larger indoor coil will produce better SEER/EER ratings. There is no problem with this as a general rule -- and it is standard practice to upsize the coil somewhat. If you are looking for a tax credit, there are specific ratings that must be met in order to get this credit. My educated guess is the contractor upsized the evaporator coil to get you in range for the credit. You WILL get less de-humidification with a larger coil, however, this may not be as noticeable with a variable speed unit.

    Anyone who is in the business can tell you: installation quality matters much more than brand. Any brand of equipment poorly installed is likely going to yield poor results. Therefore, choose someone that knows what they are doing and has a good reputation. Typically, a company that installs a major brand such as Carrier or Trane gets more training resources to their employees (somewhat better than, say, Goodman). More often than not, you get what you pay for with equipment and service.

    For comfort and efficiency reasons, insist that your dealer runs a heat load (manual) on your home. Ask for it to be included. If he/she says no and he/she wants you to pay for it, fine. Pay for it. You don't want something installed in your home permanently which doesn't do the job correctly. The reason we have homes is to protect us from the elements. There is almost nothing worse than a system that does a bad job.

    Similarly, with a heat pump, you want to make sure you have the right combination of aux electric heat and heat pump. For ideal comfort, you want to choose a heat pump/indoor unit that eliminates or minimizes "cold blow". This can happen better with a properly sized unit and staged electric heat. Neither Trane nor Goodman are famous for having great heat pumps, in my experience.

    I am partial to Carrier because I have two Infinity heat pumps and I love them. Carrier has comfort heat technology which minimizes the cold blow common to heat pumps (particularly when outdoor temps are lower). Too, they also have specific models of air handlers that can phase in electric heat in stages rather than full blast. Trane has a similar technology, but, in my opinion, they don't work as well. Others may differ with me on this opinion. Given a choice, I would certainly choose the Trane unit over the Goodman. There is no comparison there.

    If you want a mac daddy, get a two stage heat pump which will more precisely match the load on your house. The two stage units typically dehumidify better too. But, you are going to pay about a $2k premium.

    If I were you, I would steer clear of Goodman. They are noisy as hell and their heat pumps, in general, suck.

    Good luck !

  • 17 years ago

    I'm also in the process of replacing my hvac. I live in Fl just south of Daytona Beach, and my ac died last Fri. Repair people said I have leaks in both the outside and inside (in garage) coils, $3000 to replace coils, $9800 for a new 15 SEER 5-ton puron heat pump split system. Current system is a 5-ton Trane freon heat pump split system, not sure of the SEER, maybe 13 or 15. They said there are no 5-ton systems that qualify for the tax credit, and that I need 5 tons to keep it as cool as I like it, 71-72. My current system has been more than adequate to cool as low as 68 on the hottest days.

    I talked to my brother-in-law Joe who lives down the street in same size house, 2700 sf. He'd gotten an estimate a few months ago on a Carrier 55k btu (aprox. 4.6 tons), 16 SEER, split heat pump system--Comfort 25HCB5 heat pump and Performance FV4B air handler--for about $6000 after Carrier $125 rebate and $640 Fl Power & Light rebate, and it qualifies for the tax credit. That includes a 10 kw heat strip, replacing the water-damaged air handler base, and 10 yrs parts and labor.

    After checking out Carrier's website, I'm thinking about the 19 SEER Infinity system, which has a $1325 rebate till Aug. 31 when you get the air cleaner with it (I think it was $1200 without), and the Fl P & L rebate on that would be about $1500. And Carrier offers tin-plated copper coils to protect from corrosion. Joe's guy is coming tomorrow to give me a quote.

  • 17 years ago

    One other thing I forgot to mention--for the tax credit:

    16 SEER, 13 EER for non-heat pump

    15 SEER, 12.5 EER for heat pump

    as per energystar.gov

  • 17 years ago

    Any comments on Trane 10 year extended labor warranty for $ 545.00. Is it worth the money?

  • 17 years ago

    With my current Trane heat pump system I never noticed cold blow, but the kind of cold here, usual lows in the 40's & 50's, aren't much of a test, and I don't mind a little cold so I'm not much of a judge.

    The pros and cons of going from 5 tons to 4.6 tons, if I get the same system that Joe was quoted on:

    Con: Will it cool my house as low as 71 on the really hot days? Perhaps the 4.6 ton is enough for Joe and my sister since my sister is always cold and wants the AC at 80; he wants 78, so they compromise at 79.

    Pro: When I had the house built in 2002 I told the builder I want to be nice and cool, and I opted for upgraded insulation, double-glazed windows, attic fan, ceiling fans in every room incl. kitchen (especially kitchen), and had them clear only the trees they had to, so I have lots of shade, and I keep the sun out with blinds.

    I'll have the heat load thing done which should settle that question. I'm getting at least one other quote, all Carrier authorized dealers and Fl P & L Customer Favorite and Energy Efficiency Contractors

  • 17 years ago

    Another question before to call Trane guy - Am I going to have any benefits from Honeywell Vision Pro IAQ compare to Trane Model 802 and what is the price difference (approx)

  • 17 years ago

    Just got Sears guy to give me a quote on Carrier . May be Carrier is the best manufacture but the price for 15 SEER with Variable speed airhandler is almost $2100 above Trane
    ($8873 vs. $6790). He (Sears guy) advised me to go with 3 ton system ( no one so far did any calculations, just by looking at the house). What is the difference in price between 2.5 ton and 3 ton system?

  • 17 years ago

    That sounds high for the Carrier. I got a quote this afternoon for 4.6 ton Carrier 15 SEER with variable speed airhandler for $6530 minus $150 Carrier rebate and minus $725 Fl Power & Light rebate and it qualifies for the tax credit.

  • 17 years ago

    Many folks have said they got very high quotes from Sears. You might check with another independent Carrier dealer.