What is location? What size system are you replacing?

You realize Trane is quoting a 2 1/2 ton condenser, Rheem a 3 ton condenser.

For the Trane, I would want the GAM5 air handler if not the VS model TAM7.

While I like Rheem products, I don't care for that condenser model, made South of the Border. Again not the correct air handler.

Not familiar with that Microguard coating and generally skeptical about these third party coatings as far as effectiveness and definitely cost. Not sure if it's worth it for Trane anyway. I would want to know that the coating did not void any Trane or Rheem warranty. I would want Trane or Rheem brand seacoast shield if this is something you want to pursue.

What brand system are you replacing?

IMO

I am replacing a Rheem right now.

The location is Tequesta, Florida on Jupiter Island, We are right on the ocean. the condo is 2200 square feet.

Is 3 ton the better size to get?

Thanks

Danielle

What size is existing system?

I would stay with the Trane XR 15 Heat pump and TAM7030 var speed air handler 3 ton size. Add the HW Mdl 8321 thermostat and 7 KW heat strip. How do you currently filter your return air? Where is currect air handler located?

See below performance/efficiency numbers. It qualifies for Fed Tax Credit.

4656619 Active Systems XR15 WEATHERTRON TRANE 4TWR5036G1 *AM7A0B30H21 1165 5 36800 12.50 15.00 35200 9.00 21800 1 HRCU-A-CB 297 754 Yes

I would stay away from these third party coatings. i believe Trane offers a seacoast shield beyond the normal all aluminum protection that their condensers offer. Discuss with your dealer.

IMO

Hi.

I will look into your suggestions.

I have a quick question. The air handler is in a closet, along with the hot water heater. Not much room at all. Will what you recommend fit?

All I have is a furnace filter to filter the air.

Can't say about the room in your closet without knowing the dimensions that are available.

Again what size is existing system?

Post back.

IMO

Duplicate post.

This post was edited by tigerdunes on Tue, Aug 27, 13 at 9:13

Hi.

I have further information.

My current unit is 2.5 tons.

I forwarded your comments to the contractor and here is his reply.

"The air handler you are referencing below TAM7030 will not fit. The unit is 55â tall. I would have preferred to give this as the option to use if it fit. The existing unit is above the hot water heater so we are restricted on the height. Around 48â is the max we can go.
What you have now is a straight cool with electric heat. The problem with using a heat pump is we do not have sufficient control wires feeding from the air handler to the condenser. We have an 18-2 feeding there now and a heat pump will require 18-5. Heat pumps are not very common this far south due to are lack of cold weather and little demand for heating. Also your out of pocket expense at the time of purchase would be about $900 more with the extra cost of the unit and reduction in FPL rebate. The straight cool unit in 3ton 4TTR5036 with the 4FWH036 does qualify for a Fed tax credit as well. See attachment. If we were to use the heat pump condenser with the 4FWH036 air handler it will not qualify and the efficiency drops down to 14.5 SEER.
The thermostat you referenced is the exact one I use on a replacement.
I am familiar with the seacoast shield that Trane offers. It is a plastic curtain that hangs in front of the aluminum to copper connections to keep salt spray from blowing directly on these joints. We would also apply what is called tar tape on these joints since this is the weakest part due to the two dissimilar metals joining."

Please advise.

Thank you so much for your time and attention.

Daniellerose

It seems your contractor knows what he/she is talking about (based on the response at least). Sometimes physical space constraints limit which equipment can be used.

To answer your previous question, a 3 ton unit is not better to get if that is not what your home requires. In fact it will be less efficient and provide less comfort. Has the previous 2.5 ton system, when working properly, ever failed to keep you comfortable? No prudent dealer would upsize the equipment without supporting that decision with a properly performed Manual J load calculation. Square footage and location alone do not dictate capacity required -- when considered alone, they can often lead to oversizing. A house's construction properties will greatly influence the load. With that said 2.5-3 tons "sounds right," but my point is a load calculation should be done to calculate what your size equipment your home actually needs versus sizing based on previous system size or just guesswork. The previous system's capabilities, when it was working properly, is a baseline to consider. Granted 2.5 vs. 3 ton isn't a huge difference, but the biggest problem with simply installing larger equipment is that the existing ductwork is very often undersized to begin with, so larger equipment will compound existing issues and decrease operating efficiency, capacity, and reliability of the new (larger) equipment. Larger, higher-efficiency equipment will want/need to move more airflow, and if your ductwork is not sufficient as is, that is a problem.

I personally have no experience with with these third party coil coating products. With three new systems in 8 years, you are in a harsh coastal environment. Trane is all I will recommend for this climate due to their all-aluminum outdoor coils. Beyond the seacoast kit Trane offers and the "tar tape" the dealer describes, with the Trane outdoor coils I don't recommend or see the need for any additional coating.

Are they keeping the existing refrigerant lineset or replacing? I would definitely replace if access isn't extremely difficult, in this case. You've had three systems in 8 years, in a coastal environment. Who knows what shape the existing lines are in and what size for that matter. A good purge/flush and evacuation is definitely necessary at the very least if existing lines are reused.

This post was edited by ryanhughes on Tue, Aug 27, 13 at 23:47

For Ryan

Are you familiar with the air handler the Trane dealer is quoting? It may work but at what cost to efficiency to the XR 15. i could not find it as an AHRI match. And now we learn that existing system is straight AC with strip heat for winter heating.

I am not sure I wouldn't just down grade from the XR15 HP to XR13 HP. I would want to see a load calculation at least for cooling and if it shows a 3 ton, then a thorough inspection of ductwork system especially size.

Take a look at this link. Not familiar with this air handler.OP says 16 SEER. I don't believe that at all.

I agree about the third party coatings and would stay with Trane's seacoast shield.

For Danielle

I would ask dealer for an AHRI matching number for 2 1/2 ton system he has quoted. If there is not one as I suspect,ask him if Trane support can give him the performance/efficiency numbers for this system. And also ask him if he will perform a load calculation for cooling.

IMO

Here is a link that might be useful: 4FWHF030 Trane air handler

Hey Tiger -- no, not as familiar with that particular air handler (it is a fairly new model). I believe this is the model the OP was actually quoted (link below). I was able to locate the ratings and confirm it is 16 SEER (AHRI #5327329). It does have an all-aluminum coil and high-efficiency blower.

(Edit: I initially said I was unsure if Trane manufactured this unit but believe I was misinterpreting the directory data. This is a Trane product and is a fully approved, matched system.)

With the space being limited, I'm not sure the Hyperions would fit.

Here is a link that might be useful: http://www.trane.com/residential/products/air-handlers/xb-4fwh-air-handlers

This post was edited by ryanhughes on Wed, Aug 28, 13 at 11:57

Thanks Ryan. I checked the directory several times and couldn't find a thing. My bad. And I have done an about face on this dealer. He seems to be a good one.

Now the only question is whether 2 1/2 or 3 ton is correct size. I would want a load calculation for cooling.

5327329 Active Coil (Mix-Match) TRANE TRANE 4TTR5030E1 TRANE U.S. INC. 4FWH(A,F)030A* 1000 31400 13.50 16.00 1 RCU-A-CB 237 Yes

OP should understand this is a straight AC system with only resistance heat strip. I would assume a 7.5-10 KW.

OP should ask about the cost for the seacoast shield.

I recommend the 803 or HW Mdl 8321 thermostat.

IMO

This post was edited by tigerdunes on Wed, Aug 28, 13 at 9:51

Thank you for your help. I will go back to the contractor and ask him the specific questions you mention. I'll report back.

Danielle

Go with Trane, they have the spine fin aluminum condenser coils that will last a heck of alot longer than the copper tube / aluminum fin models (Rheem)

Hi.

I was able to get to the contractor and got some final information. Here's what he said.
To answer your questions,
There is no additional cost for the seacoast shield or tar tape.
A purge and flush would be sufficient for the refrigerant lines.
I have already done a load calc. See attachment. If you need any explanation let me know.
The system you pointed out 4TTR5030 and 4FWH(A,F)030A is what I originally quoted you. I reattached that proposal.
The XR13 HP OR XR15 HP are both still heat pump condensers and we donâÂÂt have enough wiring
You are right about not wanting to oversize a system, not so much due to it being inefficient but because it will cause a humidity issue of cooling the home off to fast and not running long enough to remove the moisture in the home. So as you can see from the manual J I attached the home only requires a 2.5 ton. This is based on a design criteria of cooling to 75 degrees on a 90 degree day. Going up a half a ton would not cause us any humidity problems though because it would not be grossly oversized. I do have some customers that want 70 degrees or less believe it or not on a 90 degree day so I have to sort of cheat the program to accommodate them. Any time I replace a system I have to do a load calc by code and turn it in to the building department. With all that being said I believe you would be fine with the 2 ý ton system.

Would you agree that I am good to go with what he suggests?

Thank you for all your help. I feel much more comfortable with what I have selected...and I am sure that they are impressed with all the informed questions that I asked thanks to your help.

Danielle

Go with the 3 you won't regret it. It's only 6000 BUTs more, system will lose efficiency over the years and those 6k BTUs will come in handy with out a humidity issue