gorndonr,

I had the same question about this washer. I read several other people's comments on the web regarding your question. One woman wrote that her Elite washer was clogged and the repair man removed a front panel on the washer to clean a filter inside the washer. She reported that this problem did happen again in the future but she then knew how to remedy it. I too have been searching for a washer. I feared that between kids leaving things in their pockets and dog dog hair I could possibly have to frequently remove that panel. I am surprised that Kenmore does not have a filter with easy access. I am buying an LG and their easy access filter played a role in my decision.

Hi gordonr,

Gosh, great minds think a like. :-) Right, now, unless I cancel my order, the HE5t is the W4840 replacement machine I chose (FWIW, I still have the W4840). However, the LG was a very strong 2nd choice for me. And does cross my mind, since a smart friend bought the LG set and is pleased.

1) Temps, like you, I could not find. Hopefully some has or can check it for us. Or in about a week, I will have mine (unless I go with LG :-) >

2) Coin trap, I could not find one either. I did look at the door seal and it seems not likely to let something fall back into outer drum. I did a search on google and only found a few references to problems. However, a concern that Lg, Miele, Bosch (more or less) don't have.

3)You are right, heater on those cycles. Sales guys just don't read the manuals. Stain Treat is not really a cycle but a "modifier" that seems to work on all cycles. It is a profile wash from Warm to Hot. So you can invoke it even on Normal cycle and get the heater. I tried it in the store. And this is a Kenmore exclusive feature and not available on Whirlpool clone. Also, Kenmore has 4th rinse option on HE5t.

4) I think I did this test and it did work with heater on the heater cycles. On the time change, I noticed this also, but since the default is hot. They may not just back-off timer. I even think the Miele does this on some cycles. One or two do add time, but it is only like five minutes or so- not much. I can check, since I still have it. But not really a concern for me, since I noticed with the Kill-a- meter (which I think you suggested- thanks). Most cycles with my loads and the very small amount of wash water in the W4840, the heater turned-off before end of wash anyway. My guess after using low water Miele is that 110V heaters really work and are almost equivalent to 220v older washer with a lot more wash water. Regardless, 110v seems to work, IF it turns-on. Here that Miele! Sorry, cold not resist dig.

5)Good question, I assume you noticed the same times also with the powered machine. My guess is the same wash action, just a coincidence of similar times. I did not see any different in wash action on the HE5t nor on the Miele either except for the really special handwash/ delicates/etc ones.

Overall observation on Miele W48xx vs HE5t. The HE5t seems to have most of the features of the W48xx. Some are better with extra spin time, 4th rinse, heater on more cycles with profile like wash. Gut feel HE5T suspension will be equal for better then W48xx. Firmware seems to be simpler, i.e. if I turn extra rinse, it works for all, same for extra spin, and Stain Treat. I like that it does not try to out think me or protect me. With the custom cycles that saves all the options, it is easy to just hit it and chose temp/soil level.

For me right now, I can get the LG or Kenmore W/D set or seperates for 15 off + 15% +free delivery or 20%+15% and pay for delivery. At these prices, the cost is in the 1/2 ballpark range for a Germany made washer with acceptable build quality. Some compromises, but the price mitigates it for me- easily. I don't think I will regret having the Mile over these other choces at all.

mathtchr,

Yes, lack of drain trap seems silly. But on the other hand, I have had a Bosch FL for 7 years and only twice had something (usually coins)in the trap. And most of these were within the first year or so. I just did not check things and have a very clean wallet- twice- to confirm it. :-).

Not saying it is not a big concern, but the darn HExt has been on the market for years and this is either a way to keep the ext warranty sales up or they are not prone to it. Heck, even the new Bosch FL can not even do baby socks, it needs a mesh bag.

I take it you like your LGs. I think they really did a good job of hitting the market needs well- extra rinse, extra water, heater on most cycles (if not all), drain door,etc. And I guess DD motor, just not sure about how important is the DD motor. Miele's didn't have it either. Please feel free to persuade me (in separate thread, I guess). :-) Serious. Price is not the driver. I still have option to switch, if best choice. And as noted, at the 'reduced' prices, they do not even have to be perfect. The Miele was held to a higher standard due to price and thier own claims.

In Colorado Springs,a dealer that carries Asko, Miele, Whirlpool dropped the LG line because of local service problems. They even still had an LG sign on their building. One could say, they just did not want to compete with HD,BB, Sears. But they still have Whirlpool. Almost everyone carries theses.

BTW, not the dealer that I bought my Miele's W/D.

mathchr,

I could live with having to remove a panel to get to the coin trap. Ideally it would be like many others and have a little door, but you'll never find all the things you want in any single product.

crooks101,

Thanks for the info. I do like Miele stuff (have dishwasher and vacuum and both are A+++), but your experience concerns me as I'd also expect the heater to work in normal. Also a little bit concerned that the Miele firmware lacks significant resolve to try and balance loads. Our old Asko (may it RIP) would try and try to balance a load before giving up. I would have hoped Miele would program this same level of finesse, but your experiences do not bear that out. The HE5t feature set *is* pretty nice and the "kick the tires" sense of build quality seems above average (e.g. the door hinge is nice and sturdy). Overall the feature set seems rational and void of silly gimmicks and instead incorporates proven concepts like a profile wash.

The LG steamwasher is an interesting option, however when I write about it the LG fan club usually sends me hate mail. If you ignore the steam wash setting, the rest of the machine does have a great feature set. It almost does everything you'd want (minus a profile wash). As I've written before the steam wash cycle seems silly and very much a gimmick in my opinion but does add a fair amount of cost. When you think about the physics and mechanical-wash action of the steam wash it's hard to believe it really does anything significant but there do seem to be people on this site who like their wash results. Whether it really does something, or the results would be equally good without the steam wash, or it's a placebo effect is speculation. LG also doesn't appear to incorporate any cleaning/flushing for the steam generator and with our hard water that would get pretty ugly inside the steam generator. You can always just not use this feature and be perfectly happy with the LG (added cost aside). My more overreaching concern with LG is how the product comes across on an almost sensory level. To me LG's feel like a lot of emphasis was put on machine eye candy and dubious features at the expense of solid construction. I know at some level it's irrational because lots of machines now emphasize a rainbow of colors, but LG seems to be the leader in marketing non-core value machine attributes. When I "kick the tires" you see a much less significant door hinge than the HE5t or Miele and the machine is relatively light (192 lbs) compared with an HE5t (245 lbs) or the Miele (290 lbs). I doubt the LG's lightness is because they are using exotic materials like a carbon fiber chassis. All said it's still a bit irrational as you don't hear of their doors falling off or other mechanical problems that are routine. Guess that's why we have choice in the marketplace - different strokes...

crooks101,

I was torn between the LG steamwasher and the HE5t. I have no doubt that both machines work well. I also have no rocket science to support my choice of the LG. I like the little "trap door" on the LG but it did not make or break my decision. In the end I was mostly swayed by CR and LG fans' testimonials, not only on this site but others as well. My machine is coming on Wednesday. I will most certainly post my likes and dislikes (pray I won't have any!) once I have finished the mountain of laundry which sits in my laundry room. Please do the same.

gordonr,

Yes, the LG eye candy approaches bothers me also. Did not realize the HE5t was 245lbs, just assumed about the same as LG. However, the LG washer, I was looking at is a new model WM2455H. Different control panel, but has all the feature of Steam model-minus it. Like you, steam generator is just asking for trouble, IMO.

So last night pulled down the WM2455H manual/spec sheet. It does not say the heater is used on all cycles, but only mentions Sanitary. The steam model states heater on selected cycles. And I know for sure it works on Normal. I suspect the WM2455H might also have it, since it has a heater. And just missed in manual/spec. But that might be wishful thinking.

Also, concerned about the LG vibration, it has something called SpinSense, or something like that. You turn it on if you are having spins problems. Doesn't really makes sense. If is has an accelerometer, why do you need it? I suspect it just lowers max spin to some set amount. Manual seems to say once set it stays set. If true, not impressed at all. At least the Miele W4800/W4840 slows down. As noted, I think it could try a little harder an ignore the wall clock, but nothing is hurt except your dryer energy bill. And what you gain by the shorter wash, you lose some, if not all, in more dryer time. Bad choice, IMHO.

So Miele, it definitely does not try like my old Bosch or what I have seen in store for the HE5T. Also, the rinse spins are not full speed setting of final spin. Seems to be medium/high medium. The old Bosch was at full speed on every rinses. Not sure about the HE5T. Is was so smooth every time I tested HS spin, I could not tell if max speed was achieved. So either very good or store just has easy to balance load. Don't know.

Like you, door issue is a noted. But I might just have to suck it up and fixed it myself. I never would call a service for this even with ext warranty, since they probably will claim user error and charge for it.

FWIW, just noticed BB has Samsung 337 VRT model down to everyday price of $1099. All FLs prices seem to be dropping. The WM2455 is $999 in white. Easy to get for $850 or less. Miele is looking like a very high road now. This was not true in April, since even CR listed the HE5t as $1500. Not at Greatindoors everyday is $1200, with discounts down to about $1000 or so.

You can bet the store has an easy to balance load. Why in the world would they put a load in there that is going to act up? If I had it to sell-- I wouldn't.

When I went to an appliance dealer he pulled out his basket of towels to show me how many towels the washer could hold. I noted that his towels were as thin as paper compared to my supper thick ones.

crooks101,

Interesting that the Miele W4840 intermediate rinse spins weren't at speed of final spin. On the 5-6 kg Miele machines people would point to the very high speed intermediate rinse spins as a reason why Miele's had better rinse performance than competitive machines that had a greater number of rinses, but slower rinse spins.

Paid for a HE5t yesterday at $1,000. Delivery scheduled for about 1 month out as much work needs to be done before I'm ready for it. In reality it will probably take more than a month to finish the construction. Hopefully some of those unanswered questions can get clarified before delivery.

FYI on definition of temps...

The Whirlpool near equivalents to the HE5t define the temps as follows (and I'd guess it's the same for the HE5t):

cool: 70F
warm: 80-90F
hot: 110F
extra hot: 120F
sanitary: 150F

Funny how these names mean very different things depending on the manufacturer. For example, a Kenmore/Whirlpool Extra/Super Hot (120F) is a lower temp than a Miele Very Warm (122F).

gordonr

I have a 230V 6K Miele. The intermediate spins are determined by the spin speed you have selected, so If I have mine set to max I get high speed intermediate spins, but I will not get the max spin until the final spin.

I will only use max for heavy cotton underwear and socks and towels..A max spin for anything else just beats the heck out of it and leaves things wrinkled.

The machine also uses different "soaking" patterns for some of the rinses..for example the second rinse has short tumbles but long soaks.

If I use the extended option the rinses are longer.

Also if the load is hard to balance the machine will try while holding the countdown and if after about 15 tries it cannot spin, the time countdown will increase and an additional rinse will be added to the cycle. So no problems with rinsing.

A far as temps. I use 105F warm for most cycles, 120F for whites. I can go as high as almost 200F and the machine can heat the water very fast, but most white items are cleaned just fine at 120F or 140F.

When I first bought my machine I was "all into" using high temps,high spins, and the extended cycle, but over time I see that the results are just fine with warm or very warm or 140F, the default short cycle which lasts about 49 minutes, and there is not that much difference between a high spin and a very high spin..it's all faster than the older machines.

Let us know how the HE5t turns out. Maybe Crooks will have his before you! Anyway.. both of you please share your experiences and have fun.

Re: definition of temps.

gordonr

I have been thinking about your previous comment regarding the definition of temps.

If you look back over the years I think we see that the definition in the U.S.A has been redefined by manufacturers. It has been redefined to be lower- depending on what appliance you are using.

Years ago 140F to 160F was hot. Now we have 110F as hot.
Well try washing dishes in your DW in "HOT" water of 110F and see what you get.

Definnitions also depend on individuals which is why I don't care for them.

My definition of hot is water that I cannot keep my hand in. I can certainly keep my hand in water of 110F(which feels rather cool to me) and 120F is only mildly hot to me. I guess more like very warm approaching hot or something. So this is one reason I don't care for the new labeling of cycles we now see on washing machines because they become meaningless EXCEPT for the Energy Star police.

I suspect this is why we see the lowering of temps, so that a product gets a good rating using "HOT" water..ofcourse hot ain't what it used to be..but never mind.. we got the rating. Meanwhile the consumer can figure out how to take up the slack and deal with cleaning issues plus in the U.S.A we all use LCB so that will fix things right up. The use of LCB may be one reason manufactureres don't see any need to use heaters on regular cycles..they know we are going to throw in a bunch of chlorine bleach anyway so what is the point of risking your energy star rating. Even Miele added a LCB dispenser to its unit it is trying to sell here. I suspect they intended for the heater to work when they printed the user manual and then decided what is the point of that. The manual has not been changed since all manufactureres reserve the right to change information without notice, but the heater has been disabled which then puts them on equal terms with the common use of washers here in the U.S.A.

I am all for energy conservation but I really think it getting off track. If we really are serious about conserving energy then we can get out of our cars instead of lower water temps trying to reduce the amount of fuel consumed.

Me--hot is 140F to 160F just like it always was in the 1960's and 1970's. And really hot is 200F.

One of the reasons I really like my older 6K machine is that there is none of this cycle name business. It just shows the fabric type(cotton, Perm press, silk, wool) and within fabric type it lists the temperatures..and then I get to decide whats "HOT"

The temps on my 4 year old HE3t, which is similar to your HE5t, are as follows:

Tap Cold - Incoming cold water temperature
Cold - 77F
Warm - 104F
Hot - 122F (Normal Cycle)
Hot - 127F (Whitest Whites/Heavy Duty cycles)
Extra Hot - 153F (Sanitary cycle)

Joe

Hi Joe. See you are still doing Laundry huh?

Yep! I pop up here every once in a while.

Joe,

Your warm (104F) sounds like a better warm than what Whirlpool told me for the current Duet's (and by extension I figure is true for the HE5t). I thought there was something about that temp which makes enzymes activate.

Overall I agree that the whole idea of using names as aliases for actual temperatures isn't helpful to those who really want to know what's going on. Our Danby has a dial with actual temps listed so we typically use about 100F (my guess the actual click stop is really 40C but Danby simplified it by listed 100F instead of 104F) for our warm wash and 140F (60C) for a hot wash. It kind of bugs me that with the HE5t that your only option above 120F is the sanitary cycle at 150F).

"Let us know how the HE5t turns out. Maybe Crooks will have his before you!"

If Miele does not come pick up their W4840/T9800 before Saturday, I am going to open a laundromat. LOL. It has been a over a week, since I faxed the receipts and have heard nothing yet from Miele. They wanted to give money back instead of fixing. Just do it! Ready for pick-u! I really am getting to dislike them more each day. Now the W4840 washer door is really sagging and hits the lower latch frame pretty hard. Hey, at least it stays open automatically, unless you push on it and it vents very well. So not a problem, but another well-engineered feature. LOL.

Meanwhile, while waiting for the HE5t deliver this Saturday, I toyed the idea of getting a LG or Samsung. Think I will just say with the HE5t and dryer. I think I will be pleased. Famous last words?

gordonr, your questions actually helped me a lot. I had some of the same concerns/observations like lack of drain door, missing intermediate hot temps, etc. Now I feel more comfortable with decision. Nice to known some thinking person, like you, had similar concerns and still decided on it.

On Samsung, I am less impressed. I think the door gasket/drain would hold too much left over water. I pushed on the SS dryer drum and I could move it about 1/2 in. It has no coin door either. If you tapped on the outer plastic on door, it tended to rattle. In contrast, the HE5t passed these tests well. Samsung VRT has promise, but not long term tested. Silver care is borderline gimmick to me. Marginal use of built-in heater, just kills it for consideration.

On LG, it does seem to have issues with 2nd floor vibration here. Hinges seem cheap. SS dryer drum had dings already on some floor models and not very heavy. Reports of rust on frame along with nagging support issues. Perhaps nothing, just don't want to take the risk.

I am placing my bet on the HE5t for parts availability, refined design over the years and really MADE IN GERMANY- not just a marketing claim. LOL.

crooks101,

It's impossible to find everything you could possibly ask for in a single machine. At some level all the brands have + and - aspects, but they all do in fact - wash clothes. You don't hear of a widespread epidemic of dirty clothes from washers which don't use their internal heaters to full advantage. It's really a matter of the degree of detail and refinement at issue here. If anything this exercise shows how much Miele got right in theory and no doubt some day that theory will coincide with the actual implementation. I'm going to try to get info out of Sears regarding the temps of the HE5t in case Sears speced it different from Whirlpool.

agree, price/performace is good, if not perfect for HE5t.

Joe,

Were the temps for your HE3t in the manual? Went around in circles today trying to get someone at Sears/Kenmore who knew the temps for cold/warm/hot...

Probably the only people in the whole company who have that data are the engineers & product managers who work with Whirlpool.

I don't have mine yet, but I did pull the HE5t manual down a few weeks ago. It is really one of the better written ones. Describes the cycles including which uses heater, etc. Nice charts showing function/modifies for all cycles. But alas, no real temps.

Below is a sample, IMO, exlecllent. Smokes most manuals.

Thermal Optimizer with Smart Wash Technology:
The heating system ensures that the wash water is heated to the preset temperature for Heavy Duty, Whitest Whites, Sanitary, and the Stain Treat option. It also provides Smart Wash Technology with "Stepped Cleaning" when using the sanitary cycle or the stain treat option. "Stepped Cleaning" starts the wash cycle with warm water to remove stains (such as blood or grass). ("stepped" is their Stain Treat option- crooks)

Stain Treat
Use this option for heavily soiled loads that need improved stain treatment. When Stain Treat is selected, the water temperature of the selected wash cycle is automatically set to warm. The water will then be heated to a hot water temperature to aid in stain removal. This option will provide optimal removal of organic stains such as blood. NOTE: If Stain Treat is selected with the Sanitary cycle, the water will be heated to a very hot temperature.

FAQ: Cycle too long?
Did you choose the Sanitary cycle or Stain Treat option?
In both cases the heater will be activated to provide maximum cleaning performance. Additional time will be added to the regular cycle to heat the water. This additional time will depend on the load size and the hot water inlet temperature. (excellent IMHO- crooks)

gordonr,

When the original HE3t came out, there was a lot of information floating around here. That is when I learned of the temperature settings.

I have actually tested the temps with my instant read thermometer, and can say that they seem accurate. Since the door locks at around 120F, I could not directly measure the higher temps. So I estimated them by doing the following.

When the heater engages or disengages, it makes an audible click. Using the stain treat function, I measured the water temp a couple of minutes after the heater engaged, and then exactly 10 minutes later. I divided the number of degrees the water temp increased by 10 to calculate the temperature rise per minute. Then I timed how long the heater remained on before shutting off, and multiplied that by the temp rise per minute. From several such "experiments," I believe the wash temps I listed are accurate for my machine.

My "add a garment" light will shut off after a set period of time, which varies depending on the cycle and settings. But it will go out earlier as the water temp exceeds about 120F. If the washer is paused when the water temp exceeds 120F, then the door will not unlock. If you leave the washer paused, then the door will unlock when the temp falls below 120F.

My machine has a technical manual inside, so the HE5t may too. I can't remember if it listed the water temps inside or not. I don't have it here to check.

If you remove the front bottom panel (like you would to access the coin trap), you should see it taped to the right side panel.

Joe

Crooks,

If you wash a large load on the Sanitary cycle and select the stain treat option, the wash portion of the cycle could be nearly 90 minutes or so!

Joe

Joe,

Had same problem with Miele testing of heater of washer locking the door. You can measure the drain temp, but that is inaccurate and will give you a low reading too.

So what I did it put a very large load like cotton king size bedsheets. I wait until the end of cycle or use the Kill-a-Watt to verify the heater had cycled-off and water temp is at max. Cancel wash, drain and open door as quick as you can and lift up (carefully) the load of hot cottons and measure the temp using an IR or good instrument. The heat loss is almost nothing, since at most a few minutes and you are reading the temp inside of the clothes which cool very little. Even this method is slightly conservative, but I got temps, on the cycle that the Miele did engage, very close to the rated specs. Of course, Normal was around 87F always, since the heater did not work.

It is really very simple and takes advantage of the large mass and time to cool. Your method is clever- BTW.

gordonr,

Got my HE5t today. First pass on a few washes, it seems pretty good for the price- so far. Vibration/suspension seems better than Miele W48xx. I put a 34/34 cotton heavy jeans by itself in wash. A pretty hard load to balance. It did not shake the house, like the Miele; but the drum was really moving around a lot. So far, no cat looking up wondering "what the heck." Going to miss the cheap vibration feature that my sofa had for awhile. Almost got use to it. LOL.

Stain Treat cycle does engages heater on most cycles including Normal. I am checking to see real temp of its
"hot". Will do Extra Hot later- takes awhile. On Warm, I checked via IR as soon as the Kill-a-Watt meter showed the heater turned-off. It was 102F, seems like a good range.

ATC controls are not as aggressive at Miele. That was its one redeeming feature with no heater on Normal/FW high rinse option. But concern was more of winter use in Colorado, as previously posted.

The extra SkinCare option does add a 4th rinse. Sweet! This is actually better then 3 high water rinses and a lot better than 3 low water ones.

Also, I noticed the HE5t recalculates total time based on some factors, I assume load weight. I noticed it did the recalculate symbol as soon as the wash fill was done.

Running the initial no load cycle, I even noticed the rinse cycles adjusted down about 4 minutes per cycles and it did it on all four rinses. Hmm. I assume this is good overall. Just an observation right now. I do like my rinses well-done.

It is slightly noisier on wash than the Mile, you can hear the clothes moving around more- i.e. water slosh. Miele made mostly just slaps sounds. I like more water, but not a bid issue for me. Definitely trade-offs either way.

On motor, it seems to be making the noises like a brush motor, similar to my old Bosch and like most Miele's. W48xx was brush-less. Darn, if true. Could just be more drive train noise. Oh well, guess you can't have it all! When I was doing my pre-sales inquiries, Miele tech line said brushes were not big deal. Who is to argue with Miele?

One feature, the washer adds more wash water right before it HS spins- i.e. at end of wash cycle. It helps dilute the detergent - clever. I think I will get overall better rinse cycles - not quite equal to old Bosch, however due to still lower water levels.

All other water levels seem about the same as the standard Miele level. Perhaps a little more, but not anything like my old Bosch.

It is German made and the matching W/D is about 1/2 the cost of the Miele. I am going to be surprised is I feel like I am missing much for the money in bank. Diamond Dust with smoked door is very attractive, but still new Miele style is best, IMHO. I like simple, clean lines.

Heater draws about 1000 watts, about a 100 less than W48xx.

Just when to to check on Hot temp in Normal with Stain Treat. Wash noise seems to be coming from washer metal top, so guess the fiberboard of Miele cut the sound somewhat. Not sure about sides. I would expect something for another 2x price. Give this one to Miele. Lucky for me not a show stopper.

Should have waited 5 more minutes, since the heater just turned-off. I had a large all cotton load so canceled/drain and checked max IR temp in drum. Hot was 127F. This would be a slightly conservative temp, perhaps a few degrees hotter due to time to drain/cool down. So 130F or so? Note: cycle was Normal with Stain Treat on. Temp showed Hot setting.

For those interested, the Extra Hot(Sanitary) temp using the same method above is 151F, so probably a little bit higher.

Also, check this out. http://www.appliancemagazine.com/editorial.php?article=167

Found references to motor, it does seem to be brush-less or so it seems, since it is induction. Another hit said brush-less directly.

crooks101,

Thanks for the update. Some questions...

Isn't stain treat always set to "hot"? If I remember stain treat deselects if you choose another temp.

re: "On Warm, I checked via IR as soon as the Kill-a-Watt meter showed the heater turned-off. It was 102F, seems like a good range."

What cycle were you using to get the HE5t to use the heater on "warm"?

The manual says the machine uses the heater in "heavy duty". Would be interesting to hear if this is true for warm, hot and extra hot and what the approximate temps are.

Also, what does ATC manage for "Normal" cycle in the warm, hot and extra hot range? It would be interesting to confirm that it *doesn't* use the internal heater.

Do you open the drum to shoot the IR-based temp or shoot off the glass? If you shoot off the glass it would be good to place some black tape over your target zone to compensate for emissivity. Even with doing this it's difficult to get better than +/- 2F accuracy so the reading are good for knowing what ballpark your in.

Again, thanks for the good work!

On my HE3t, the heater will activate at any temp (cold, warm, or hot) if a cycle that has been selected that uses the heater, like heavy duty or whitest whites.

In the winter the incoming cold water is very cold, around 38F. As an experiment I started a cycle set to tap cold. As soon as the fill completed, I set the temp to "cold," and the heater engaged, heating the wash water to 77F.

Normally, the heater won't have to activate when the temp is set to cold, but it is good to know it will if the temp is too low.

Joe

P.S. Does the HE5t make a "click" sound when the heater engages and disengages?

Isn't stain treat always set to "hot"?--- Yes, it deselects if not hot. Would be perfect, if it did not.

What cycle were you using to get the HE5t to use the heater on "warm"? --- Either WW or HD, both turn the heater on with all spins, temp, extra HS spin time, Stain Treat, extra rinses, pre-wash options can be overridden. This is good. BTW, I think the only thing HD is just set the Stain Treat to on by default- maybe some extra wash time.

I am finding the use of "My cycle" can be set with your usual wash temp, spin, rinses. Power On, hit it, change temp (most likely the only change) and press Start.

The manual says the machine uses the heater in "heavy duty". Would be interesting to hear if this is true for warm, hot and extra hot and what the approximate temps are. ---- Pretty sure the temp ranges are what I posted above. Like I noted above, you can essential override anything.

Also, what does ATC manage for "Normal" cycle in the warm, hot and extra hot range? It would be interesting to confirm that it *doesn't* use the internal heater. ----Normal does not use heater. But Stain Treat does turn heater on, even for Normal. This is what I like about the HE5t, none of this if it is Tuesday at noon, but not on Saturday evening.. type of thinking. Just on/off.

Cool temp is really around 80F either by ATC or heater or both on HD/WW. Since my water is still "cool" even during summer, I put washer on "cool' WW cycle and noticed the heater engaged. During winter here this is almost mandatory. Cold really means NO HEAT via ATC or heater. Not sure why one would ever use this, BTW.

Do you open the drum to shoot the IR-based temp or shoot off the glass? Yes, read directly off clothes (see technique above in earlier post). Shooting off glass, does not work at all for Craftsman IR. I think my instrument is rated as +-2F or so.

Summary to your questions, the only thing I really wish was different was the ability to change Stain Treat to any heated temp choice. As it stands, the LG, Samsung, Whirlpool Duet, Miele W4xxx do not have this profile wash. Perhaps the Bosch still does. Not sure.

Thought. One could feed the HE5T with a cold water fill (via Y-connector). I could effectively always get a profile wash. Only downside, you would never be able to use ATC, but if you did this, you did not want it anyway.

What makes the HE5t work over the Miele for me, is the ability to go up/down and use most temp and options on cycle that use heater. Miele locked me out too often. Miele had too mnay things like sanitary cycle always forcing me to do a pre-wash- why? Let me decide. Maybe not 'really' dirty, but just want to kills germs, for example. What does pre-wash add?

So far I think I have more control using this over Miele W48xx. Interesting, the Whirlpool high-end Duet is like the Miele. Just too simple. Kenmore really added some value. Dryer is just a clone, however of Duet.

The lack of vibration so far is impressive. 10 minutes to setup and level and seems to work perfect. Matching dryer is larger, a lot more controls than T9800 and quieter. Build quality definitely a notch down over Miele, however.