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drjoann

Help w/ Modifying Plan

16 years ago

We're getting close to choosing a builder, so its time to put the final tweaks on our plan. This is our "forever" home on ~2 fully wooded acres near Greenville, SC. We're empty nesters & grandkids are likely a bit in the future since DD starts law school in the fall. We do have a formal dining room for "date night" & whenever there is someone besides us.

I've copied the kitchen portion and added in some measurements:

Banquette - the red X's indicate where DH & I will normally sit for our meals so that we can look out onto the woods. It won't be built quite like this. Instead of equal sides, we'll shorten 2 of the segments so the other 3 get more room - kinda like a U with the interior corners clipped. The intention of the banquette is to have a cute place for folks to hang out while I cook, etc. The dotted line is about where the table could extend to if we wanted to eat in the kitchen with little kiddos (aka sweet, messy monkeys).

The flat bar is so that folks can pull up a stool and chat while sipping a glass of wine as I cook. The ends of the bar will be clipped to save hips. The walls on either side of the opening to the keeping room are knee walls so I can see the TV & talk to DH when at the sink. The knee walls will be higher than the bar (suggestions?????)

The island doesn't have seating and will be at baking height. In addition, it is a good landing place when putting away groceries. I tried to make the aisles more generous where there will be traffic walking through.

The 10' wall with the single bowl sink & DW are DH's domain. He does the cleanup so this gets him out of my way for cooking & prep. He'll also have his coffee maker there & the toaster so he can make a sandwich & cup of coffee w/o interfering with me.

Issue #1 - I don't like how the house designer (not KD) placed the cooktop. What I will have is either a 36" range or rangetop and I would like it closer to the sink and more centered on the island. If we extended the full height wall to where I've cross-hatched in red (~1') I think this could be done. Doing so would not really obstruct my view from the sink into the keeping room. We talked this over with a potential cabinet builder & he thought it made sense. What do y'all think?

Issue #2 - However, that same cabinet builder thought we should move the ovens from the wall by the refrigerator over to the place where the DW currently is in DH's domain. Where the ovens were would now become a base cabinet & upper with the corner of the base clipped to match the other side. His reasoning is that we don't want two "monolithic" elements, a fridge and wall ovens, together. He claims that moving the ovens would make the kitchen seem bigger. DH doesn't really lose out because his coffee pot & toaster now go over by the fridge.

I can see the sense in this, but I'm uneasy for three reasons:

a.) Now _my_ ovens are over in DH's "territory". I know that may sound ridiculous, but I was trying to decouple our activities in the kitchen as much as possible.

b.) With the ovens by the fridge, I can just pivot to the island to take something out that needs attention. The island counter will be soapstone, so this seemed perfect. If the ovens are moved, then the natural landing spot is where DH may have dirty dishes or pans that he hasn't processed yet. Also, the perimeter counters will be granite so I will have to use a trivet if I put a hot pan on them.

c.) When something is in the oven that needs infrequent attention, it is now further from either the keeping room or banquette where I will likely be.

Anyway, what is y'all's take on relocating the ovens? I don't think it is as functional, but do the aesthetics outweigh the perceived disadvantages?

Thanks for your inputs. They are much appreciated.

Jo Ann

Comments (10)

  • 16 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I really like your layout.
    I hope others (w/ more wisdom) would join in.

    My thought of moving the oven is not because of having 2 large appliances next to each other, but more to get it out of the flow of traffic.
    If it were my kitchen, I'd like the oven to be in the left corner on the range wall. True that it's farther from the KR and banquette. Definitely not the option of in DH's territory.

    About shifting the range down, where do you think you'll prep? I love that luxurious space between your range and sink for prepping; I have about 17 inches to prep right now. I wouldn't want to lose an inch.

    Question: what is the "MUD"? Mudroom? Then what is "GR" - the garage? Why are they separate?

    Amanda

  • 16 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Amanda - yes, I did have some concern about having the ovens in the flow of traffic, but with only the 2 of us + 2 dogs there really isn't that much traffic. That is the 4th problem I have with putting the ovens on DH's wall - I would mostly block the pocket door to the Mudroom & this is what the dogs will use to access the exterior door to their "potty" area.

    If I shift the range down, I will have 2' of free counter space to the right and 5'6" to the left. If the 30" ovens went on that wall, there would still be 3' to the left of the range.

    I have 4' to the right of the sink for prep plus the 5' island. I tend to be a pretty organized cook, so I try to have my mise en place set up before I begin and go from there.

    Sorry, GR stands for Great Room. The other good thing is that the laundry is over by the master suite and the guest suite so that there is no hauling of laundry through the kitchen to a mudroom/laundry. I'm just tickled pink about that.

    Thanks for the inputs & questions. I've played around with the oven location you suggested, but only wanted to present one alternative to keep things simpler on the 1st round of questions.

    Anyone else? Thanks - Jo Ann

  • 16 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    My thoughts were somewhat the same as Amanda's...If you're moving the rangetop to the right, it makes room for the ovens at the left end of that run. Near the island where you might one day do baking projects with young ones, and convenient for you to get to from the stove. The oven next to the fridge is not the best look, but not terrible if it's necessary, but it just doesn't seem like the best place for you...And there could be handle conflict if you have a French door or side-by-side fridge/freezer.

    Putting the ovens where dh's dw is would put a hot open door across the mud room entry. Maybe not a big deal in a house without kids running through, but why do it if you don't need to?

    I worried about your island being a barrier between the stove and fridge, but if you move the cooktop to the right, the situation will be definitely improved...But still not perfect. Maybe a compromise you can deal with? Or something you want to make changes to fix. You'd have to make that call.

    I thought about swapping dh's zone with the fridge and oven, but the island is then between the fridge and sink, which is worse than the situation you'll have now with the stove moved.

  • 16 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I guess I would also vote to move the ovens to the range wall BUT leave the micro on a shelf or in a drawer in the original location if you use it a lot.

    You don't have to have complete symmetry at the rangetop - you can move it towards the sink and have the all of the wall cabinets on one side and terminate the uppers with giant hood. It avoids building the red wall and gives you a direct view of the family room while standing at the rangetop and cooking.

    My other thought was to question which way you want to face while doing prep vs. the location of the sink. If you want to mainly face family room, you might consider moving the sink closer to the ref and using the corner for your main work surface (stuff comes out of the ref, is piled by the sink, washed in the sink and chopped beside rangetop). If you want to mainly face banquette, its fine where it is - although you might consider a smaller single since its a prep sink and not a washing up sink (stuff comes out of the ref, is piled by at the end of the peninsula, slid to the sink, washed in the sink, returned to peninsula and chopped then carried to rangetop).

    I don't think the raised height bookcases will cause you any problems visually (unless they're 4 feet tall or more). I might try thinking about how the food would move to an outside grilling space and furniture arrangements in the keeping room before deciding whether to keep them or not.

    I'm dying to know what the 3'8" x 5'4" space with two doors and a wall opening to the keeping room is...

  • 16 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I think the ovens would go nicely to the left of the cooktop also - and i think there is room to move the cooktop to the right w/o building up part of the knee wall there. mostly that would depend on how you think it'd look and if you want to be able to see into the KR while stirring/cooking. I would!
    i also think the frig to sink to prep area (to left of sink or right of it) will be fine. tho, there looks to be room to move the sink a bit to the right also. there doesn't look to be much of a 'round the island' to get to the frig either.

    do you plan to curve the counter top as it comes from the KR knee wall and around the front of the sink?

    will there be a bar height section along there or will it all be counter height?

    is there a trash pullout / bin planned somewhere?

  • 16 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I just did a quick mockup in Home Designer Pro with the ovens moved to the range wall and it works GREAT! Thanks guys!

    Also, I may have misinterpreted what y'all said about the prep sink, so I tried a version where the "prep" sink moved to the leg of the peninsula closest to the fridge & I just love it. I opens everything up, so well and puts me facing the keeping room for prep which is certainly more time consuming than washing. (I do a lot of chopping.)

    There are two pull out trash bins: one by my sink & one by DH's.

    The "room" that is 3'8" x 5'4" is a mini-vestibule to the screened porch. It may seem like wasted space, but it has some purpose. Originally, what you see as the 2'8" cased opening was the exterior door to the porch. DH decided to generate some space for himself to have an e-room or pocket office where you see the bi-fold door. The vestibule was the result of that change, but I like it because it gives a buffer between the keeping room and the outside. I kept imagining sitting on the loveseat and shivering from a draft. I know new houses are much tighter than what I remember from my old house in NJ, but after 20 years in Houston, chills are not something I'm looking forward to. Also, it gave a nice space to tuck in a full height built-in bookcase.

    The countertop is flat on the peninsula, no bar. We have a bar, now, that we never use so I'm not a big fan of them, especially since we won't eat at the peninsula.

    Yes, the peninsula counter needs to have some curve to it, but I just haven't figured that out, yet. I imagine the guy who will be doing the countertops may have some suggestions, but I need to have some idea of what I want before we meet.

    The bookcases on the other side of the kneewall are only going to be 3-6" (depends on the tile) above the counter so that things won't slide from the counter onto them.

    The microwave can go about anywhere that it will fit. On average, we probably use it less than 10 minutes per day, so its not a biggie.

    Would it really look OK if the hood doesn't have uppers on both sides? I'll give that a try in my SW and see how it looks. That might allow the range to move even further to the right.

    I feel like something has been lifted off of my shoulders, right now. I can tell you how much I appreciate the advice.
    Y'all are fabulous.

    Thanks - Jo Ann

  • 16 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    This is a simulation of what it will look like when I stand at my prep area. Moving the sink to the other leg of the peninsula works out great!

    Thank you for the suggestions for this change; it makes a BIG difference.

    Jo Ann

    P.S. - OK, its just a sim and there are a whole bunch of things that aren't "right". The trim of the half-wall will be more like katieob's with small columns; there is no backrest or pillows for the banquette; I have a marble texture rather than something like Bianco Romano granite; the little direct vent gas stove is going to be way cuter; the ceiling in the keeping room is a double vault with white beadboard, etc., etc. But, I think this is close enough to let me know that I am going to LOVE my new kitchen (& house).

    The backdrop is a photo that I took of our property in late April.

  • 16 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    That's really nice. It's going to be a nice house.

  • 16 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Lovely. :-) It's wonderful that you now feel so confident and excited...that's the way it should be!

  • 16 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Nice nice space!!!

    Reading through I had the exact same recommendations as the others:
    -put ovens left of the cooktop.
    -scoot your cooktop right so it is more centered on the island.
    -bump the prep sink right one leg so it faces the table.
    -keep the MW near the fridge.

    Enjoy!!!