The negative reviews I read on the Vantage also say it's a prettied up Cabrio. People really seem unhappy with it.

Not sure why you're so hung up on getting it. Tons of positive feedback on the LG you are giving up and going to a machine that doesn't seem to be getting much positive?

Still think you'd be better off waiting for a good FL. My parents LG FL has very little issue balancing.

I haven't heard anything here (Canada) about Electrolux making the Kenmore washers either. Can I ask how you know that? Currently, our Kenmores are made by LG and Samsung.

Hi guys, the new FL Kenmore Elites, the 4113, the white, lemongrass and purple colored washers aremade by Electrolux. I had asked the store one time about why they had a different tub than the other Kenmore Elite FL, and they said now they are made by electrolux. Take a peek at one on display, the tub, led light, rubber boot and wash "fins" are all exactly the same as the electrolux wave touch! I know that the whirlpool cabrios got pretty bad reviews but are these reviews on the older models? The new Cabrio Platinum Tl washers just came out like 3 weeks ago and have pretty good reviews. I go to, searspartsdiret . com and check out the service tech sheets and compare the washers from lets say 1 - 2 years ago, with the same model now and everything inside is totally different, even the control board, springs, drum, sensors. So they do change things for the better. Also the Vantage has different guts than the Cabrio Platinum and im really big on updating the washer via usb flash drive!

The first three digits (before the period) of Kenmore appliance model numbers indicate the manufacturing source. That's on the FULL model number as labeled ON the appliance. Their online info at both Sears.com and Kenmore.com tends to not be the full correct model number. Example, washer model 110.20907990 (this is a machine 10 years old), the leading 110 indicates Whirlpool is the manufacturing source. Info can be found online to decipher the codes, search for "kenmore manufacturing codes" or "who made my kenmore" or similar search terms.

Here's one list, which may not be fully up-to-date (scroll down the page) -- Sears Manufacturing Codes

Sears told me yesterday that the 4113 machines are made by electrolux. What I dont understand is when did lux start doing the 6 motion wash. That was LG's trademark for Kenmore first, then they added it to their own line of machines.

Oh well, everyone is copying everyone these days. Just look at Miele's cutlery tray or the Honey Comb Drum - every manufacturer has its own version of it now.

The Electrolux aka Kenmore units do look nice. Just not too sure about those super fast wash cycles. I mean, Colors takes like only 36 minutes and I read it doesn't even spin until before the final rinse. What is nice, though, is that they have a pump-driven jet (much like LGs) that comes on to soak the load faster. I think every front loader should have them!

Also like the Platinum Whirlpools, as they have a Clean Boost with Heater button, which activates the heater on any cycle.

BTW, a good source for new washers is energystar.gov. They usually list new washers before anyone else. For example, they list a larger LG WaveForce with a new model number. They also listed that Alien GE long before it hit the stores.

Alex

Im like you Whirlpool....Im not so sure about using those fast wash cycles either. I know I wouldnt use them. One thing I like about 4113 is that you can choose extra hot on many cycles and it kicks in the internal heater to boost the hot incoming water as I have read this today from the Owners manual from the kenmore 4113. Im not sure if the Electrolux version does this. What i didnt see in the KM is the water plus option what wave touch does indeed offer.

Oooo ... those new Kenmore's sound interesting :)

Agree about the short cycles. It takes time to clean properly and I'm not willing to give up clean clothes for short wash times.

I do like the new Kenmores, i dont like the control knob, they were squeaking like they needed wd-40, the feel is totally different tna the kenmore elites made by lg. If i order an electrolux washer, i wont get it until mid january.

Whirlpool trainee do you work for whirlpool, i know, craazy question, but what about the WTW8800Y , can you add more water to those cycles? as the top load kenmore i have fills up the tup almost 80 percent of the load, each time!

1. No, just read my (My Page).

2. Adding water to the Cabrio and Bravos washers is not possible like on the LG units. Adding extra water would, potentially, make clothes float in the wash tub and the impeller wouldn't work any more. Of course, there are a bunch of cycles that'll add more water to begin with, like Sheets or Bulky Items.

Alex

Okay so i was thinking about it more and more, since i'd have to wait a month to do laundry in my own house. The only washer avalible are the kenmores to me now. I am thinking about it and i am starting to think the tech did do something wrong. I was looking at the washer today and i really do like it, even though i cannot use it. I will order the Kenmore 29472 like i have now. I cant wait for a month for 1, and 2 there are no washers out there that wow me, the cabrio doesnt use as much water as this Kenmore/LG does. The creaking will get on my nervs but i hope it will subside with use. I have a 2 year master protection agreement, so if this happens in the future i know i will have my own pick of what i want at that time! I just want to enjoy my washer, but i just havent been able too! I have a big washer machine tub on my front porch and i guess it will stay till ups picks it up, in 1 week sears said. I said i cannot store that in my house or in my little garage so it will stay on my porch! lol

Glad to hear that. Has been my thought all along. You liked it before and it was running fine--best of my knowledge, then the creak bothered you and had Sears check it out and he goofed it up. If the new one creaks, just close the door.LOL Lots easier than doing with out a machine or trying to make a decision about a new one.

I talked with a friend of mine today who is building a new house. They will have it done in 2 weeks and I asked if she had gotten her appliances yet and she said yes she went with Samsung for everything but her washer is the top load so I will see in a few weeks how she likes it. She had a 30 year old Maytag but her house burned in the spring so for the new home she is trying the Samsung...

Im very disappointed, did you know that the electrolux wave touch are made in mexico? sucks for that 1600 price tag! Thats a real downer.

fastonetime...that is no surprise to me, did you really think they would be made in the USA?? I think not, why? because companies all have moved thier manufacturing facilities to cheap labor countries so they can charge the most and get the highest profit out of the product. What surprises me is that a good friend/sles lady who works for sears told me a while back that the Electrolux washer is the slowest seller that they have due to the price of it. So I was shocked to see sears go with electrolux to make the KM elite 4113 due to the price of it being over 2200 dollars. I will have to hook up with her and find out the scoop on that one. She is the BEST sears washer appliance employee that I have ever met, doesnt give out false information and if she doesnt know, she herself will contact the manufacture of the washer and find the annswer. When I bought my HE3t back in 2001, she went way out and beyond the call of duty to get the answers I needed before I purchased it.

Dont you think that Elux offered Sears "a deal they couldnt refuse" in turn knowing that the Kenmore brand outsells them all at Sears so in the long run they would stand to profit. Plus I am not too sure that everyone is familiar with Elux? JMO Plus I know at my Sears they do all they can to talk you into a Kenmore. Thats why I dont have a Bosch dishwasher--was told how much better the KM was.

And, if you want anything USA made probably would be Speed Queen.

Thats is very possible sparky. I do know that the reason Sears/Kenmore dropped whirlpool for its washers was due to the fact that the kenmore line likes to have features on their washers first and for at least a year before whirlpool puts the same features on their products. According to my sears friend, that is why they went to LG a few years back, instead of whirlpool. Maybe the same applies to the lux washers made for KM and from what I see, the option to shorten washes feature is a kenmore exclusive for the time being and then Lux will pick it up later on. Time will tell... Your right speed queen is still made in the USA, just not very popular though for whatever reason. If I were in the market for a conventional toploader, Id go speed queen without a doubt. But Id rather super glue my lips to a dogs behind before I buy another one of those washers.

I asked the sears executive about the Whirlpool backed kenmores, and he said that they were having way too many problems with whirlpool made kenmores. And Kenmore stands for top quality and excellent performance and whirlpool just wasnt working out, in a nice way he put it. So then they tried lg for what, 2 years, now its electrolux. I want to order another top load, Kenmore, i really do like it and the touch screen too. Everyone loves the touch screen! I wished that this kenmore, liek your wave touches had a drum light and steam. My FL Kenmore (LG) had steam and i always used that feature!

fastonetime....are you drinking again? I have a LG wave force washer, it does not have a light in it, nor does it have steam, and I never said it had those features, but i wish it did!. Whirlpool has been a long time companion for Kenmore productsand if qualifty issues were an issue as to why they went to LUX or LG then they are slow moving people. It is no secret that Whirlpool made the calypso washer, a huge failure to Sears and a class action law suit against them, again with the oasis washer. Let me tell you something here as I work in the manufacturing industry for fuel delievery systems for cars and trucks, bot domestic USA and european models. It is all about the lowest bidder to the contact set forth on the table. You can pay a high price for something, but that does not mean you get the best product or quality assurance behind it. I work in the usa, the company that I work for is trying to turn us into China who makes the same parts for a fraction of the labor/benefit cost. Im sorry, but I dont live in a grass hut, and work for a bonus of a 5 lb bag of rice just to meet company quota's for the month. Its a shame the USA gov. has let most manfacturing companies go overseas

"Id rather super glue my lips to a dogs behind before I buy another one of those washers"

LOL ... I really DID laugh out loud to that one ...

It's a vicious circle. Consumers don't want to pay high prices so manufacturers have to figure out how to make it cheaper and still make a profit.

I'm sure it's NA's over consumption habits and corporate greed all balled up. Unfortunately, I don't see an end to the cycle. It's scary to think where the world is headed.

People are funny. They want what they want and they are not willing to change one bit for the better good. Just look at Greece - sheesh. Those guys would rather be owned by China than give up anything.

Deep thoughts on the laundry forum again :)

Gates: Totally agree. It is all about who will furnish the goods at the least cost and LG, then Lux decided they wanted to play "Kenmore" for a while.

Sears still has two Whirlpool HE toploaders under the Kenmore name.

Sears Item# 02628002000
Sears Item# 02626002000

The have the drawer like the cheaper Cabrio versions (the belt-driven ones) but with a TimedOxi dispenser. BTW, steam would not work in a washer that doesn't tumble the load. A tub light would be cool.

So i talked to the sears executive and he suggests that i dont go with the kenmore elite top load again. Sounds like he doesnt even want to order me another one after what happened. I still have the tub in the box on my front porch, ups hasnt picked it up yet as promised! That really sucks, because the tub/box takes up my whole porch front door area ( i live in a condo)

So i asked then when the electrolux wavetouch, in the color turqouis cky would be avalible and he said not till mid january. I emailed electrolux and they said that the color, red hot red, and turqouis sky is very very popular and they have ran out of stock in many places, so i'd have to wait to get a fresh new one. I also asked if the were made in mexico and the reply was, some are made in juarez mexico and some in iowa. Isnt juarex the worst city inb mexico, i read somewhere that they have murders everyday! That kind of makes me weary about even owning an electrolux. The email said that it could come from either place, only a serial number could tell where it was made, but no serial number is avalible to me as the washer is being built. I really like the turquoise color. Ugh this whole deal is making me very angry, maybe, just maybe some new, better washers will show up on the sears site before mid january. What do you all think?

I think you listen to Sears employees too much. The Executive should of at least explained to you why you shouldnt go with the HE TL again. Haf Sears not Messed with your machine to begin with, it would not be on the front porch. So what if the Lux is made in a city with murders everyday, what does that have to do with the washers being built there. Hell, Norfolk Va has murders daily, but I will purchase items there

First off Gates is correct you are listening to a Sears rep way too much.
I don't particularly care one bit where a machine is made as long as it is quality made.

Right now an LG made by LG for LG seems to be a pretty darn good appliance.
Kenmore is nothing but a name, Kenmores are made by Whirlpool, LG and a few other manufacturers.

That LGmore was probably a perfectly fine washer until that idiot from Sears ruined it.

So far our LG is fantastic.

Wife just washed my mother Cashmere sweater in it under the Wool setting with cold/cold, low spin, low soil and with Woolite HE and it came out excellent.
Was better than hand washing.

Drying it now on the Rack inside the LG dryer on rack dry low heat laying flat.

So i got a call from sears today, the green elextrolux wont be avalible until late january, like the 25th. So i opt out of that one, cos i cannot wait that long. So they told me they have the white wave touch avalible to me next tuesday. After a long long week of thinking back and forth between the Kenmore HE Elite and the Wave touch, i had no choise but to choose the wave touch! I just hope i like the build quality from what i can remember back in 2009, i know the models have changed and i hope for the better! Im actually kind of excited. The things that made my decision for me was, wave touch has steam, drum light, 1400 spin speed. This Kenmore hE top load has a max speed of 1050. When i washed the towels and used max spin they still came out very damp. When i washed them in my Kenmore LG FL, they came out almost dry, the spin speed was 1300 on that one. So well will see, i hope i can get a good washer this time!

So i couldnt wait any longer for the new washer, sears offered before for sears to fix the suspension rod and the hanger so it could be like a temp fix allowing me to wash. I declined at the time, because i didnt want this to happen again. Well i had them come out to fix it as i still have the parts and the tub box on my front porch! my garage is so small that i have no room in there, unless i move my car out, to store it.

I washed my comforters and some other bedding and i used the Seventh Generation hE powder which i love, but, today i noticed that there was still powder left on top of my queen comforter. I did a re wash and noticed that the comforter puffed up and about 2 inches of the comforter were not underwater at all, even when i pushed it down more into the water, it just puffed back up. So that kind of makes me a little mad. a front loader has constant movement, rolling of the load so that every part has water. I'll be happy getting back to using a front load, just not sure how much i am going to like the electrolux!

Here are some photos of the washer in the box on my front porch walk way!

Sears fixed your washer and its going to give you a electrolux? Even in a frnt loader, washing comforters that puff up can be a challenge. If the comforter is really big and puffs up in the washer, the center of it may not rotate around enough to get wet. Maybe the bulky cycle will help with this, my FL did not have this cycle, so to ensure it had enough water in it, I manually added it with a garden hose

well they didnt put thenew tub in, they only had replaced the spring and hanger so that i could temp wash. They offered me to get it fixed before, still offering me a replacement as i didnt want this machine after it dented itself and the hanger broke in half. i know it was probably the techs fault for messing with it in the first place. Buti am just uneasy with it, after seeing the youtube video and what minor, compared to that video, damage happened to my washer. Like i had said i havent used a top load since maybe 2005. I like the front loads way better. But that boxis still on my front porch, sears executive said hes trying to have it picked up but is having issues with their parts department! Ugh!

Interestingly, the WaveTouch does not offer a Bulky cycle. I think one uses Heavy Duty instead. What Electrolux did do, and this is nice, they added a jet to the washer to circulate wash and rinse water over the load - much like they do in Europe since the 80s: the famous Electrolux JetSystem. The Frigidaire sibling also have the jet - not sure about the IQ Touch units.

About the Perfect Steam feature: actually, there's no steam generator in these machines. What the option does is extend the main wash by 20 minutes and activate the water heater some more. Whirlpool's Steam for Stains is the same by the way, since they removed the dedicated steam generator.

And try a pre-wash (with spin!) on very puffy items. Spinning it will take a lot of air out and since it's wet, it won't absorb air as easily/quickly any more.

Alex

Odds are if the comforter wont wash in the TL then it wont wash in the FL either. Unless the FL has A LOT bigger drum than the TL which is doubtful unless it is a commercial one.
It will just be dry in the center instead of the top.

Fortunately we are not having any such problems with ours, our king size comforters and an over sized super puffy Queen all wash just fine, get pulled right down and pushed back up and roll and boil from top to bottom.

I just want a washer that works, and after now being through two washers in less than two years, i've lost hope, in anything that will last longer than both of these. I emailed that chris polk from electrolux and was asking questions about the wave touch washers, about life span, quality, negative reviews, about the wave touches not lasting long, or feeling cheap, needing a lot of repairs. Also about the white color, as i have not seen it in person, i thought it was a dull white color, also why they are still using a belt driven motor with these new models and why they havent switched to direct drive motor.

Warren,

Thanks for staying in touch. Now the direct drive system in our laundry units may be redesigned in the future, but to be honest it has been the proposed design for a while now. Can't really say why we have not changed, unless it comes down to patent information for manufacturing steps.

The white should have a pearl-like sparkle. It is not a dull, flat white at all. Now of course with any product or service you will certainly read reviews and experiences online that are more negative. We as consumers tend to voice our concerns in a negative light for the world to see and gain satisfaction rather than post positive comments and testimonials. But I can say that our products have less than 3% that need to be serviced or repaired early in the product's lifespan. Also Electrolux has one of the best warranties on the market. Of course you receive the standard one year manufacturer's warranty, but we also try to extend limited part warranties unto our units after that one year. No other competitor has any coverage, whether big or small, after the first year.

If you have any questions please contact me or our Center at 877-435-3287. Enjoy and Happy Holidays!

Chris

He was very nice everytime we talked and just felt what he said reassured me of electrolux quality. I hope i really do enjoy it!

"No other competitor has any coverage, whether big or small, after the first year."

Doesn't LG warranty their motor or something for 10 years?

My Miele is warranted bumper to bumper for 10 years for free (but that was a special Cdn promotion).

Good luck with the new machine. Let us know how it works out when you get it.

Fisher & Paykel is currently offering a 10-year motor warranty on select units based on serial number and purchase date.

Oh yea, i forgot about that, but after the 2nd year of ownership, if you dont have an extended warranty you have to pay labor to install the tub and motor. Labor from sears is like 86 dollars an hour, so how long would that take and how much would it cost in the end, even though the parts are free. I have now coverage for my Electrolux, when it comes, until oct. 2013. I plan on keeping the coverage after that as it has really helped me out and payed for its self like 5 times! I have the Master Protection Agreement. I paid 150 for one year, just to try the warranty out, right when my warranty ended on my "LG", Kenmore Front Load. 2 months later the spider cracked and the bearing went out, and about a week after the diagnosis i had a brand new washer! Which is the touch screen one i have now, that is getting replaced for an Electrolux, all free of charge, because i have the Master Protection Agreement, not a bad investment if you ask me!

Plus what was great is that, i paid, 1100 on sale, for my Kenmore Front load in early 2010. They gave me credit for the retail amount, not any sale price and the retail price of the washer was 1599 at the time! So i got a 1599 credit. So it was like i could upgrade my washer, even though it was top of the line, steam and everything at the time.

Any of you remember the Kelly Green Electrolux washers and dryers? When i was looking for a washer in early 2010, i did look at the electrolux and loved them and wanted the Kelly green color so bad, but i didnt have, or want to fork out another 500 dollars almost, for the name (as the Kenmore FL, had mainly all the same features or more, for 1100.) Im glad i am able to finally own an Electrolux washer, kinda sad that the Kelly Green color is no longer avalible and also it never made it onto a Wave Touch, it was on IQ only.

i really want to get the matching electrolux wave touch dryer, but i just bought my Kenmore 8027 dryer, in electric, for 380 at sears, during their floor model clearance sale! I scored, yes its electric and i've only owned gas dryers my whole life, but honestly, i don't see a different in my utility bill. And i really like the electric better than gas, the heat is like a dry heat, it gets really hot really fast, within a second or two! Just my opinion on it though!

you will have to post reviews on your lux when you get it. There are so few people on here that have them and report their expericences with them

So i switched to Seventh Generation Powder laundry soap and i love it. Yesterday i emailed the Chris guy again and asked about that "spray jet" because i know before this unit, the spray jet was not its own pump, now it is, to help i guess spray the water further onto the clothes. And this is what he said!

Warren,

It does indeed help circulate the water during all water-related cycles. This is a new system we are enhancing and trying out in the latest units. The previous, older, units had a little different design but also worked just as well. This will also help recirculate water and save energy cost since these units only use at the most 12 gallons of water.

In regards to your previous inquiry about the weight of materials or size, I tried to get more information from our Technical Team, but there is not a standardized weight or amount I can honestly report. I will say that I can easily wash a queen sized comforter with no problem - and dry it. However I have not tried to put a king size in the unit (do not own a king), but I am sure you could get away with it with the cubic feet. Just make sure you do not use powder detergent because that can not only clog the dispenser but as in normal top load units you can have powder residue on the clothing.

So i cant use powder? Then why is there an option to remove the liquid detergent tray for powder? What do you all think?

Sure you can use powder! Only if your load is really big (like a comforter) liquid is sometimes preferable because it'll dissolve faster.

The largest Electrolux is 4.42 cubic feet, which would be a max. load of 27.5 lbs. of regular/mixed laundry. Now, if it can wash a large load like this given the short cycle times (on most default cycles) I don't know.

Here're a very good review of the Frigidaire Affinity by a member of automaticwasher.org

http://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?30254

and

http://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?30591

Alex

Off-topic, but this is the amount of laundry (duvet and pillow covers) I can fit into my 3.2 cubic feet (DOE) Duet.

Filled the 10 cu.ft. laundromat dryer 2/3 when it was done.

Miele makes three powder varieties for their machines. Why would powder be an issue? I personally feel powder does a better job in FL machines.

Miele does recommend using liquid for their express and comforter settings. Assume, as Alex mentioned because of dissolving.

Hi there, boy you have a lot of machines! lol! U can do all different types of laundry!

Well i emailed the guy back and said i only use warm water, to extra hot, or sanitize everytime i do my laundry, also i always use a warm rinse, to help further break down the detergent thats left. Or i do an extra rinse. I was kind of let down that this Kenmore TL doesnt have an option for warm rinse at its 1600 price tag. Does your LG Wave Force have a Warm Rinse? This is what he had to say when i told him i only use warm- hot water, never use cold water during any of my laundry.

body

Warren,

As long as you use warm to hot water the detergent should break down as designed. Cold water tends to clump up the powder if at all you over use the detergent. Not saying you will have a problem, but in any machine powder (even in dishwashers) tend to be a little harder to dissolve since the FDA has approved the reduction of some chemicals and ingredients that help the dissolving process.

I don't think you'll have a problem since it seems you keep an eye on everything, and wouldn't abuse the powder measurements. Just make sure to check every so often in the dispenser for any build up and clean any out righ away.

Thanks,

Chris

My wave force washer has a tray for powder detergent, but it can clog in it, especially with cold water washes, so I just add it to the botton of the tub and all is well. Here's something interesting, my parents own the Samsung HE TL and they do not have a tray for powder, just liquid detergent. I guess Samsung wanted to ward off people complaining about powders clogging the tray.

Only the washer in the middle is mine - the other ones belong to other people in the house...

Yes the LG WT5101HV has a Warm rinse.
Warm being right around 90 degrees with cold water at 54 degrees and hot being 126 and hot water line flushed.
If your water heater is set to 145 warm would probably be 95 to maybe 100 depending on the other variables.

Thats weird that the Kenmore TL that i have now has now Warm rinse, but yours does, even though its the same machine, also mine has 1050 spin speed, as yours has 1100. kinda odd that they down graded some of the features on my Kenmore, but charge 500 more!

Your kenmore has a longer soak cycle, up to 180 minutes, vs my 30 minutes, also your stain treat option activates your heater to boost the warm and hot water when it is used. It starts out at a cooler temperature so stains do not set in and warm up to help remove them. I dont think you have been down graded at all.

actually about $900 more.

Ok so i got the Electrolux wave touch today and i am SUPER PISSED. Its a very nice, solid machine, but i went to wash my comforter and the drain hose started leaking, i was trying to figure out where it was coming from and there are holes in the drain hose. as i was feeling the water drip, i grabbed the drain hose to move it and it shocked me. i unplugged the unit right away and felt again and still shocked me! Why would it shock if the machine is "grounded" is the pump not grounded! What do i do, sears came and picked it up withing me having it 30 minutes and now im without a washer again, BIG saftey hazard if you ask me. I dont know what to do! But i did like it from what little bit of it i got to use!

I think you are just cursed.
Might be a good time to bring in a witch doctor.

Or maybe just get me a washer that works! LMAO! Geeze, now i'll be on the phone all day today, between the sears store here, sears executives and electrolux. I really want another, i just cant wait another 2 weeks. :(

I have a Kenmore Elite, top-Loading Automatic Washer; purchased on 12/3/10. tonight I was watching TV with my son and we heard a noise so loud we just ran out of the room. We had no idea what it was. Well...I walk into my laundry room and the ENTIRE TOP OF THE WASHER literally blew off. The drum is on the floor inside the housing; housing is all dented, the plastic brackets or whatever you call them are all broken. The force was so strong, it pushed into my dryer and dented the drum. So I have my little master protection plan and call SEars. They tell me the FIRST available for anyone to come look at it is January 5th...... I have been waiting for a call back from a supervisor for an hour already and will call again. The water is leaking everywhere and I don't even want to go look at my basement ceiling. I am still shaking from the entire episode because it was so loud. This isn't rocket science either . . . it would take about 5 seconds for someone to walk in my laundry room, say - oh yeah - that's broken - and haul it out of here. What has happened to Sears!!!! I have never had this kind of a problem with ANY appliance I have had from them.
I wish i could figure out how to add a picture so you could all see this. . . .

Pictures can be posted directly to the Laundry Room Gallery area, although it'll of course be a separate thread. Find the Gallery via a link [Switch to: Gallery] to the right side on the line that reads On-Topic Discussions which is immediately above the topic listing. I'm thinking that most people who play here aren't aware the Gallery section exists.

Posting a picture here in the main area requires it be hosted elsewhere online, such as at Flickr or Photobucket or other free online photo sharing service, and linked into the post via HTML code.