I have a few thoughts, but without a floor plan of adjacent areas, they may be thoughts that don't need to be shared. You can just pencil what's adjacent around the kitchen if you don't already have the house layout.

Also suggest you make a measured drawing of the layout showing proposed aisle widths. Don't forget to add 1.5" for the counter overhang beyond the cab depths. A sketch on graph paper will work just fine.

Right now I get: 24" (cab base) + 24" (island base) + 13" (shallow cab on back of island) + 3 X 1.5" (three counter overhangs)= 65.5" (total used up by cabs and overhang. Subtract that from 142.5" (narrowest width of kitchen)= 67" to provide circulation for two aisles or 33.5" apiece, which is quite narrow. Not impossible but potentially so unsatisfactory to work in that you will rue the day.

This is why looking at the fixtures without a measured floor plan can lead you astray. It's not about how it looks or feels, it's about how it works.

One solution would to make the island much narrower and combine it with an extremely shallow pantry (perhaps only 9" - so easy to see everything in that depth!) along the wall opposite it.

There are many other options, including not having an island which is marginal in your space. The hike from your fridge (in this layout) to the stove is longer than it would be if you had those appliances on opposite walls and no island in the middle.

Think about how you want the food to move around within the kitchen and where it will be eaten.

HTH,

L.

Sheesh, I had a calculator sitting right here, too!

142.5 inches less 65.5 inches (fixtures and overhangs) isn't 67 inches, it's 77 inches.

So your aisle possibilities are better at 38.5" apiece, but still pretty narrow, especially for the main working aisle between cabs and island.

I think you'll have more flexibility w/o an island. If you deepen your cab depths to 30" you'll have improved counter/work space and shrink the size of the open area in the middle.

Your kitch varies between 12' 5.75" and 11' 10.5" in width. I also have a narrow room, but my narrowest width where I have an island with two aisles and counters along the walls is 13'8". I can make it work with two critical things: 1)totally custom-made cabs to accomodate an slightly narrow counter -24" including the overhang on one side with a DW position partly recessed into the wall - and a deeper counter on the other side -30" to accomodate an older pro-style range.

And 2) I have an extremely narrow island -just 26" across that is a for working space only.

My fridge is on neither of these walls so its depth isn't driving my design.

I have 42" aisles which I settled on by creating a working model in my existing kitch to test. I've been using that width for a year now, so I know it will work.

I also suggest you try putting your fridge on the short wall where the range is now since you have more depth there for it. And move the range to the exterior wall for better venting options. (Not suggesting specific location swap, just a wall swap, IYKWIM.)

HTH

L.

@Aloha2009 Here is a new sketch with the other rooms listed

@liriodendron - We're looking into Wood Mode Brookhaven cabinets. I'll have to check to see if they offer 30" deep cabs. the only thing that worries me about that is that cabs will be deeper and harder to get things in/out of.

I might be able to swap the fridge with the pantry? but all the designers have been putting the range centered there since our kitchen will now be completely open to our dining room and they are trying to create a "focal point" with the range centered on the long wall. Above our kitchen is attic space so venting isn't an issue.

Not sure what is on the other side of the kitchen. Is that an exterior wall? Another room? A grid would help also? W/o knowing what else is going on as far flows, it hard to know what walls could be adjusted and what ones aren't. It doesn't need to be with computer software but just graph paper which you can download for free of the internet if you don't have any handy.

As it stands I too don't think you have enough room for an island with seating, but you may have for a pennisula that seats 3. Have you thought of creating a new wall between the kitchen and dining room with a doorway for access on the left side?

Whether or not, you could then create a pennisula for seating on either the dining room side or on the bottom side of the kitchen.

Here is a link that might be useful: graph paper

Sorry about the bad link.

Here is a link that might be useful: Graph paper

How about something like this?

You can seat 3 at the island table.

There is a bigger Pantry to make up for the loss of storage in the island. Be sure to make it a pull-out pantry or put roll out shelving in it so you can see/reach the back of it.

I also went with a standard depth Fridge and a standard MW that you can put in an upper cabinet - this will save money, if that's a concern. I'm sure you'll have upper cabinets other than the MW cabinet, but I only drew that one :)

Two trash pullouts were put in because to avoid traffic jams with just one.

The DW should really be moved because it is right in the prep zone. If you are up for plumbing changes it could go around the corner, next to the Fridge.

I just saw your latest message.. the Pantry/Fridge wall won't be much of a focal point for you from the DR with standard cabinetry, but maybe you can get a paneled Fridge and do something like mirrored glass on it, and/or the upper cabinetry and upper parts of the Pantry. Then it would nicely reflect whatever pendants or chandelier you choose for over the island.

Woodmode/Brookhaven will customize depth, but if you do 30" depth you may just want to pull a standard 24" and mount it away from the wall. That is what we did with my hutch base, but to 27". The advantage of 30" deep runs is added counter space more than storage below because most folks use 24" depth and you are right that more would increase access issues inside the cabinet and traffic issues if you do deeper drawers or pullouts. I don't remember if they will make the drawers and pullouts deeper if you make the cabinet itself deeper, but I suspect you can -- for a price.

If the OP is going to get a paneled frig, they may as well purchase the counter depth frig on the other wall. Sounds as if the dining room may be used quite a bit and I can only imagine the nightmare of trying to set the table and put things away for dinners. 12'+ across from frig to table would not be fun, especially when prior to dinner it's "crunch" time getting all the last minute perishable things on the table.

If the OP doesn't want to go with the pennisula, I think it would feel much more open to do away with the island and put cabinets along the opposite wall.

@aloha.

Below should give you a better idea of our 1st floor layout. I can try mapping it out using grid paper later tonight.

Also, here is our current base cabinet layout:

We currently have a wall with a pass through to the dining room. We also have a door that goes to the screened in porch. We were thinking about removing the wall, closing off the door and putting in Andersen 400 Series Hinged patio doors in the dining room to the porch. We had selected the GE Cafe 30" range, Kitchen Aid 36" Fridge (counter depth), Bosch 800 Series DW and Sharp 24" microwave drawer.

We really want to make the best with the space we have. I'm open to any suggestions.

I like the idea of changing out the window to the patio. With an attached patio, the extra window (to the floor) will allow additional light.

What if you actually utilized that bump out (in) from the living room to your advantage. You could shut off access from your front foyer. This would allow more privacy for visitors at the front door from a room (kitchen) that can get messy during prep. You could then utilize the extra 7.5" and recess a regular depth frig. There are many threads about the loss of interior space with the counter depth frigs but perhaps you thought of it. With the standard depth you would more fully utilize the extra 7.5". You distance then from frig to dining would be 8' which at least more duable. You can then create a 36" or so entry at the right bottom end of the living room. This would provide much easier access to and from the kitchen and living room instead of going through the foyer to get access. Putting in such a small entry through a load bearing wall wouldn't be at all cost prohibitive. By keeping the doorway from living to kitchen on the end, it shouldn't inhibit any decorating or function of the living room. Where is the entrance now from foyer to livingroom?

At that point you would have a U-shaped kitchen. I would then place an island perpendicular to the orientation you suggested. You wouldn't have to worry about seating that way. You could have 30" pathways on either side since nothing in essence would be there. This would allow for over a 6' wide island across the kitchen giving it the illusion of being wider. The depth you can determine what you prefer instead of having to allow walkways on the backside because of a wall.

Depending how much you want to go through the dining, through the patio to get to the backyard, you could then possibly keep the kitchen to patio door. If not I'd put a new window in. IMO you need as much additional lighting as you can. Perhaps you could center the range along the long wall between the two windows. I would consider then putting the sink where the range was suggested with additional windows. If your house is brick/stone that could be cost prohibitive though for you.

Don't know if this helps, but I have a first floor similar to yours (house is a split-level) and am considering doing something like this. My rooms are smaller, but I'm hoping to work it out.

Here is a link that might be useful: removing kitchen walls

@dccurlygirl. I like the concept of a completely open floor plan. The only downside with this is that it would take away wall space where we currently have furniture placed against.

@aloha - oops forgot to show you the pass through from foyer to living room. Below is an updated image. The only problem with closing off the entryway there is that its very close to our stairs and we would have to always go thorugh the living room / dining room before we could get to our kitchen.

You are correct but we're only talking maybe 24" (this is where it's nice to have the graph paper). You could even take out the small walls on either side of the foyer. Instead of having the 3' walls on either side of the living/foyer entrance, you could have a two 3' OPENINGS instead and then a wider wall in the middle (opposite of what you currently have. This would then direct your guest traffic right into the living room. No one would even need to see what if any kind of mess is going on in your kitchen. The family traffic from the steps could go straight into the livingroom and off to the side for the kitchen.

I'm assuming the majority of the time is spent in the living room and not upstairs, I would think the benefit of having a closer entrance from the living room to the kitchen is more necessary then from the steps to the kitchen (though even that distance wouldnt' be too bad).

Coming straight into the house and seeing a kitchen can be a HUGE deterrent when trying to sell. Even if you plan to stay in the house for many years, I wouldn't want to see my kitchen (and we're fairly neat). No matter what you end up with the kitchen, I would advise strongly in closing the kitchen off from the foyer. Though guests could still sneak a peak into your kitchen, it would be in the corner of the room, and much less likely to draw much attention.

It's good to get feedback like you are doing on ideas, because it gives all of us the direction you like.

Rereading your response tells me you may have missed the idea of moving the entry into the kitchen from the foyer to the bottom right hand corner of the livingroom (adjacent to the foyer). Again about 2' further then it is now, not all the way into the living room into the dining room. That would be a nightmare. Those 2' cuts off the kitchen mess from those arriving at the house.

All - thanks for all of your help with this. I'm very excited to get this kitchen renovated but want to make sure i"m making the best of all my space.

Below is our current floor plan. If anyone has any other suggestions with how to layout the 1st floor more effectively, I'd greatly appreciate it. Thanks again to all that have responded. I have been using this forum a ton to research products for our kitchen.

I've printed off your plans and I'm trying to pencil in some of my ideas and how you might utilize the adjoining areas. I realize this is about your kitchen, but you want to make sure the adjacent areas work as well (or even better). As I was drawing things out, I remembered my inspiration for a foyer, that was awesome. I wanted to do something like it but w/o key aspects, it wouldn't work for my house but I think it would for your. I thought I'd include it to show you some possibilities for the foyer.

Also if you change the entrance of the living room where the openings are on the sides of the foyer and the middle is then walled in (opposite of what you now have), you could put a flat screen TV or entertainment area on the living room side of the wall hidden from initial visitors. With the wall being 6' wide, only your budget would get in the way of a HUGE screen and not a great place to put it. All they'd see is your living room furniture.

Here's is my inspiration for a foyer. Plenty of eye candy for a long narrow foyer IMO

[mediterranean hall design[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/mediterranean-hallway-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_743~s_2109) by phoenix architect Carson Poetzl, Inc.

I was having all kinds of trouble with photobucket this morning or I would have posted earlier.

I darkened in all the walls thoughout the house. If it's not darkened it's an opening. I missed darkening the 7.5" wall along side the frig.

Depending on the cost of adjusting a likely structural wall, perhaps you can adjust your dining/livingroom opening a tad to elongate your dining room table on occassion. If it's too costly, you should still be able to utilize the opening for making a continous table if you ever have huge gatherings that everyone is sitting at the table at once. You'll just have to pull it 1-2' closer to the kitchen to fit through the 5' opening you now have.

I would definately have 12' cabinets on the opposite of 24"" base cabinets for the pennisula. Though it may not be easy access, it's at least storage.

With creating a large wall in the foyer instead of just end corners, you allow for more versatility in both the foyer and living room. I created 2 intimate areas in the living room opposed to one large area. My preference but perhaps not yours.

Please let us all know what you like and don't like about this arrangement. This will help the rest of us give suggestions that would work better for your lifestyle.

I added a large window over the sink which should provide a very pretty view from the dining room. If you don't want a large window because of lack of view, you could have a smaller window, with glass uppers which always looks nice.

I was having all kinds of trouble with photobucket this morning or I would have posted earlier.

I darkened in all the walls thoughout the house. If it's not darkened it's an opening. I missed darkening the 7.5" wall along side the frig.

Depending on the cost of adjusting a likely structural wall, perhaps you can adjust your dining/livingroom opening a tad to elongate your dining room table on occassion. If it's too costly, you should still be able to utilize the opening for making a continous table if you ever have huge gatherings that everyone is sitting at the table at once. You'll just have to pull it 1-2' closer to the kitchen to fit through the 5' opening you now have.

I would definately have 12' cabinets on the opposite of 24"" base cabinets for the pennisula. Though it may not be easy access, it's at least storage.

With creating a large wall in the foyer instead of just end corners, you allow for more versatility in both the foyer and living room. I created 2 intimate areas in the living room opposed to one large area. My preference but perhaps not yours.

Please let us all know what you like and don't like about this arrangement. This will help the rest of us give suggestions that would work better for your lifestyle.

I added a large window over the sink which should provide a very pretty view from the dining room. If you don't want a large window because of lack of view, you could have a smaller window, with glass uppers which always looks nice.

Dining room living room opening - that was an idea we had as well but if we are going to change the overall floor plan for the first floor we will need all the wall space we can get in the living room for our couch / love seat / chair. I definitely know what you mean though as we have had large dinner parties and our wide dining room table does not allow for us to put it between the dining room and living room...its definitely a bit uncomfy when we get more than 8 ppl.

Living room - 2 areas idea:
I like the idea but don't want to spend $$$ for new furniture as we have younger kids and know it will get spilled on / ruined over the next few years. Changing the walls in the foyer definitely seems like a cool idea and it definitely takes care of the wasted space in the kitchen. The only downsides that I see are that it closes off the view of our downstairs living room from upstairs...not necessarily a bad idea since we do have family spend the night and they usually sleep in that room. the other concern that my wife mentioned was that we would be losing the privacy when people first come in the house but I also said if we don't want people to see our living room we shouldn't invite them in :).

Peninsula - I'm concerned that the new peninsula will be so close the the new door. It feels like it will be a barrier when someone walks into the kitchen from the new door.

Sink - the wall you put the sink on is actually a non exterior wall so I don't think it will work there or at least we cannot put a window in.

Below are a few renders I made using the dimensions of our home and some of our furniture sizes:

{{!gwi}}

{{!gwi}}

Have you considered flipping the Dining and Living Room spaces? This will allow room for bigger dinner parties. If you have a Family Room a few steps down (as I do in my split), the large living room isn't as necessary. Just a thought...

@dccurlygirl - I have seen that done before with our home style but i dont know if i like having the fireplace and bay window in our dining room area.

Here are the updated pics...not sure why they didn't show up here:

IMO by removing the small wall in the corners of the living room and combining them into the middle creates a more usable wall instead of more of a passage way as it is now. You have the option of putting the TV, or loveseat on the wall. With a corner, you only have a chair or putting a small loveseat at an angle. This new wall gives much more versatility. The chaise makes it difficult but not impossible, no matter what layout you end up having because the person is sitting so far back on the piece. They are so comfortable though :). When we had all 4 kids home, we kept our big rooms as one big room. I just wanted to show you options, Your furniture as you can see will be fine too.

I goofed and meant to make the new wall 8' wide and not 6'. This would only give your visitors a visual down one side of the living room and not the entire amount. A 3' opening though may be too small. You'd have to mock it up and see what it feels like for you.

LOL. You're starting to sound like my DH with the your logic of just not inviting others in if I don't want them to see the living room.

How wide is your dining room table? Ours is a shy 4' wide and I've rarely seen any wider. You currently have a 5' opening (my suggestion if that wall isn't load bearing) was to increase it to 7' wide. Unless you have a 6' round table you shouldn't have any problems. We purposely purchased a rectangle table so we could add on inexpensive tables to the ends if we should need extra seating.

I'm kind of glad you don't like the pennisula on that wall along with some of the other things.

What if you put the range on the back wall as you and your other designers had in the first place, place the sink under the window (closest to the new area for the range). Left of the sink, would be a 6' countertop, and the pennisula would be on that side creating a corner. You'd only have to add 5' onto the already 2' counter. You could then have a 5' walkway from kitchen to dining room. You would then also have the option of adding a 4th person at the pennisula and shrinking the walkway to 3' (a still decent size). I'd create a window from that door. How great to have that right next to those sitting and for work space.

This new kitchen would be much like what your 1st plan was with the island, except the island would be attached to where your frig was and their would be a window where the door was.