In your situation, I would purchase some heavy ropes, or possibly climbing ropes and harness, and get these set up on the roof, so there is something secure to hold onto. Then I would get up there and repair the leak as necessary. I have done this on our house, and I am still alive and free of major injuries. You might spend 2 or 3 hundred dollars on climbing equipment, and maybe 20 dollars on roof patch compound and flashing material.

Thanks, but I am SCARED of heights. The only way I was able to help fix the other roof was because it was very low and I was able to climb out a window onto the roof and not have to go up a ladder.
I don't think my husband feels confident enough to do it either. I wouldn't even know where to secure a climbing line either. That is what bothers me too. We shouldn't have to do it. We have the money and are calling people and yet noone seems to want to do something. I think this would be an easy job for a roofer. Sometimes I would like the luxury of having someone do something for us and not have to do it ourselves.

There has to be other people that feel this way also! We have been working on our house for five years, and I love our house. Sometimes I just feel like I need a break though.

Renee,

Roofs are scary things and if you don't feel OK with going up there, then don't stress over that. (In reality if you had ladders -including a rook ladder- it would probably feel OK, but it's hard to tell.)

I have a roof story for you: Big leak, big problems, endless hassles getting people there do it, finally getting workers there (over and over) and paying (over and over) and still having a leak. But I did get it solved.

However I've got to run now. Here's something that might staunch the water for a short time. Take rolls of paper towels (Bounty if my pick for this job) up there lay them, unwrapped, against the chimney where the water is running down, with plastic wrap under them so they don't pas the water on to the ceiling. They will collect, and hold, a surprising amount of fluid. Of course, if you see the drip place, put a bucket under it; if a bucket is too tall use a roasting pan.

I'll be back, later.

Molly

Sometimes you have to leave things up to a professional. Roofing is a serious job. When installed and repaired correctly a roof should protect the building and it's occupants for a number of years.

If water is already coming inside of the house you should think about the water damage you don't see. Most states you have to be licensed to do roofing. Plus if a Do-It-Yourself repair leaks, you have no warranty. If you have a hard time with contractors, find a service in which files complaints. (such as Angie's List or the better business bureau)

Actually, Angie's List is a good resource for finding contractors in your area that people have used and recommend for their quality work and service. Haven't used it myself, but a couple of my friends did and were pleased. I think it costs $75 for a year's membership. They have all kinds of services and contractors, not just home building and repair people.

As a fellow old-house owner, I can sympathize with the leaking. We've experienced three roof leaks (different areas) and wouldn't dream of repairing it ourselves -- husband and I are both fearful of heights and falling. Our experience is that even though we have a roofer who we've used for both small repairs and renovations, we still have a hard time getting him to come out if it's raining. I guess that's the obvious thing -- if it's raining he's deluged (sorry, couldn't help myself) with calls and/or it's impossible to tell where the water's coming in because everything is wet. The panicky part is waiting and hoping you have enough towels to make it until the weather clears. It is a pain to have everything get wet and it's stressful not knowing what the damage will be. Hang in there!

I like housekeeping's idea about the paper towels. Wish I'd had that tip when I needed it! Yes, the roasting pan works well in tight attic/ceiling areas for catching drips.

Tina

Renee,

Sorry, I had to be so sketchy this morning. I hope you understood that I was suggesting you use the roll (s?) of paper towels in the attic, not on the roof, because that's what I meant.

OK, here's my roof-leak story: In the winter of '97 my Mother died at her house in VA. When my sister and I went down there it was obvious she also had a major roof leak along the chimney, down into the first-floor wall. It was severe enough that it visibly flowed down the wall and pooled on the wood floor. That was also a year of unusually heavy El Nino rains. You may remember that I live now, as I did then, up here in NY.

I didn't know a blasted thing about roofs (and didn't like being up on that steep, slippery, wood roof) but I needed it fixed ASAP. And under the circumstances, I would have paid almost anything to get it taken care of so I could return home quickly. First, I tried for weeks to actually get someone to come out and just take a look at it. I exhausted all local friends' and acquaintances' contacts and even rumors of knowledgeable workers, and finally was reduced to playing the "poor me, my Mama just died and her roof leaks, can't you please help me" card at likely looking hardware stores and contractors' hang-outs.

In the end, I had (multiple) roofers (it was a cedar shake roof), 3 metal workers (it was copper flashing), 1 mason (it was a brick chimney), 2 chimney workers (it was one of three clay flues that served a woodstove) and a couple of contractor/handymen. Each time, they all said they knew exactly what the problem and the solution were, and I agreed with their analysis (after all, I hadn't a clue) and paid whatever they asked for to do the work. And each time it rained, the leak came back, sometimes worse than before. I had the chimney cap raised and remortared; I had the roof shakes removed and replaced, three times in all; I had the brickwork repointed and sealed; I had the flashing replaced (twice), I had the roof deck and underlayment replaced (and that was after I'd already had the shakes replaced, so I had to do that all over again, too.

Once it seemed like it was finally fixed and I headed home after 3 months down there. Just after I crossed into NY, south of Binghamton, the watchman called me on my car phone and told me it was raining, and you guessed it, leaking again! I admit, I pulled right over at that rest stop bawled my eyes out.

When I turned around, I decided that if all those workers hadn't found the problem, there was no choice for me but to find out why it was happening and then hire someone to do exactly what I told them to do, and nothing else.

This is a very hard thing to do for two reasons: first, this was in VA, which may be last bastion of male chivalry/chauvinism. More than once workers wouldn't even discuss a price or the scope of work with me, and instead insisted on calling my husband in NY - even though he had nothing to do with the matter, and it wasn't his property, and secondly, to be honest, I had no idea what consituted a good roof installation or how it should look or how it should be repaired.

So, I sent for all my old house care books, including all my back issues (from the beginning) of Old House Journal and all my National Park Service Preservation Bulletins and I bought every old house care book I knew of, but didn't already own. And I sat at my Mother's desk and studied them, while the water streamed down the wall 6 inches away and I collected it all with sponges and rolls of paper towels. (Which, by the way, do eventually dry out and can be reused.)

Next, I screwed up my courage and laddered the roof and crept cautiously along the peak, scooting along it like a saddle. It took several tries, and few times of getting so scared I couldn't move forward or backward for an hour or so. Once, I got so desperate I peed in my pants because I was too immobilised to get down in time. (Geez, I hope the new owner never reads this!) After a couple of days, I was finally comfortable enough to get all the way from the edge of the roof to the chimney to look it over.

It had a wonderful new masonry cap; the brickwork was tidy and neat and freshly resealed; the new copper flashing gleamed; the caulking bead was intact; and the shakes were thick and new. (And I knew the decking and underlayment were fine since I could see that from the attic.) I had even paid the last flashing guy to do what everybody claimed to have never heard of in VA, which was to use a masonry saw and cut a groove in the brickwork for the top layer of flashing to be installed in. We always do that on chimneys in NY, but in VA they just butter up the flashing and stick it onto the surface. However, even with the groove I'd ordered and forced on the worker, and with an obviously intact caulking bead along it, water was somehow still getting in.

In a moment of blind frustration with the whole damned situation, I smacked the new flashing (I think technically it was the counter flashing which hangs down over the flashing, but I may have those terms confabulated) and it pulled loose from the groove and unzipped like a zipper that had lost its tab. (And then it promptly slithered right off the roof onto the ground, as well.)

When I looked closely at the groove, it was plain as day what the problem was: when the new groove was sawed, the worker being unfamiliar with the whole process, had failed to take an air compressor and clean out the brick dust before he gooped up the bent edge of the flashing, stuck it in the groove and caulked over it. And therefore the caulking was stuck into something with holding power of talcum powder. At the first serious rainfall, that dust was washed out, so the rain just ran under the caulking on the counterflashing and straight down the masonry, through the attic, past the by-now-damaged ceiling sheetrock, down the wall and straight on to the floor.

OK, so now I knew what had to be done: clean out the groove, scrape off the remainder of the caulking, drag the flashing back up to the roof (after banging out the dings from the slither) and reinstall it, including doing a perfect job of caulking.

I started with caulking part, as that was skill I had heretofore been really rotten at, and now was going to have to do while scarily perched on the roof. (The chimney, I should add, was one of those giant three-flue affairs so I couldn't just reach around it, I had to climb around over a distance of twelve feet or so on each side and over a cross peak in the roof).

I bought a case of caulking, and fancy caulking gun, and set up a dummy of the flashing groove and over a couple of days, I practiced enough so I could do a pretty nice bead on a flat surface while standing on the ground. Then I moved on to practicing on a beveled groove and then I set up a thin board up on saw horses and hung the practice beveled-groove up in a tree and practiced caulking where I had little support and no balance point, which was as close as I could come to imitating the chimney up on the roof.

Then I did as one poster above suggested and went to a big box store and bought yards and yards of fat rope. At first, when I ventured back up I just tied rope around the massive chimney as a kind of hand hold. But once I lost my grip and slid off the roof, face-down (on cedar shakes - which splinter --ooooW) and over the gutter (bent that en route). I was concentrating so hard on the way down to avoid getting tangled up on the multi-wire grape trellis running just under the eaves, that I forgot that I was headed for the slate patio. But I remembered the instant I smacked into it! Fortunately this was only a one story house, and except for lying there with the wind knocked out of me (and the splinters in my tummy), I was fine.

I went to the library the next day and borrowed a book on knots and climbing, bought more rope and a tree-climbers' harness, and then tied a rope on the axle of my car parked on one side of the building, and ran it up over the peak and around a harness belted on me, and got busy. It was the work of only an afternoon, once I got everything all set-up (and me hitched up to the ropes and the car), to clean out the groove, get the flashing repositioned in it, and run a b-e-a-u-t-i-f-u-l bead of caulk over the joint. And it was done.

Well, almost, I finished the whole thing off with a couple of masonry nails at the flashing edge join. The thing is, that even with proper nails, and an official masonry hammer, no one explained that you have to have really whack those suckers. (Well, duh, of course, it's concrete, after all!) And I ended an otherwise successful day by finally giving a mighty slam, straight down on to my other thumb.Fortunately at that point in this saga, one of my early workers, a part-time Pentacostal preacher, the Roofin' Reverend Ricky, was not scene, so I didn't embarass him with my fluent NY cursing as I whimpered over my thumb.

It is an anticlimax to report, that it was the correct fix, and aside from a little touch up on the "20-year" caulk bead after about five years (the sun in VA is fierce), I never again had to worry about that leak.

However, I did get one big benefit from it (aside from finally learning how to caulk); I learned how roofs and chimneys intersect, and so, I think, Renee, (Remember her? She's the one who asked for a roofing story.) that what you have is a fairly simple, and inexpensive to fix, flashing or caulking problem. And that might be a part of the reason you're having trouble getting people to come out, since it doesn't have the prospect of big bucks with a tear-off/re-roof job.

I am completely sympathetic to you're not wanting to go out on the roof. Only fairly desperate circumstances drove me out on this one, and while I learned to feel OK out there, I still try to get someone with the correct equipment to do it. In your case, I think that would be a ladder with a roof jack over the peak, plus assorted ladders up to the eaves.

Once you get someone to go up there, try to make sure they actually take it apart enough to be able correctly locate the problem and put it back together correctly sealed up. A sloppy fix, which may or may not see you through the winter, is just to goop everything up and hope for the best. But if it fails in January it's way harder to get done.

Now, as to getting someone there, well, I'd continue to try roofers of course, but you might also call chimney builders, and flashing or metal workers. It isn't a terribly skill dependant problem, but it does need someone who has done it before. The good news is that I doubt it's going to very expensive (aside from any touch up inside due to the leak, but that you can probably do yourself.)

I hope my long saga has encouraged you and perhaps even given you a chuckle. At least, it's wordy enough you may have had a nice long break from stressing over your own roof.

BTW, it's pouring here now, and when it started I hoped that at least you'd sent it on to me and you were getting a break.

HTH,

Molly~

thanks Molly. It was good to read your story. Just because I guess it made me feel like we could do it if we need to.

I also think that it is a simple chimney flashing issue (I too own a library of home repair manuals! :) ) It actually run down the chimney so I think the flashing must have pulled away from the chimney and when it rains it runs down the chimney. At this part of the house we don't have any attic at all, just a small crawlspace so although it bothers me greatly to have water in my house, really it is most likely not doing too much damage (cross fingers) because it must be running down the brickwork and hopefully not getting on too much wood. The damage to the ceiling is very minimal.We also had HARDLY any water in my bucket. We put a towel down and it wasn't really wet either.

My husband called a roofer and a chimney sweeper we have. I am not sure if the chimney sweep is a mason. I hope that he is as we have used him before and he is very nice and gets the work done.

When I look at the chimney I see that there is alot of tar around it, also making me feel that the flashing was just slapped on. There was evidence of an old, small leak when we bought the house but it was dry. Don't you LOVE how there is nothing you have to disclose in NY !

I was also pondering paying to get the grooved flashing (what is that called?) Our chimney is small. How long does it take to do this? I assume it would be a simple day job?

I just wish people would call back. The only thing we have had done for us is having some windows replaced. We have re-roofed, fixed plumbing, fixed electrical, concrete, jacked up the porch, repaired and replaced beams, and cut down trees and I need a break.

Is it SO hard to just ask for ONE break? I guess it isn't really a break, I just bought new wallpaper for our dining room and I guess I would rather do that. So really, I wouldn't be getting a break!

Sometimes I feel like it is a little harder for us too because we don't have any family here. All my siblings have family near by and they have a repair crew ready and willing. We don't have that support and I wish we did.
Although I really don't want my parents visiting everday, so I guess it is a trade-off.

-renee

Molly, what a great story. You certainly have a lot more courage, energy and confidence than I do!

Wow.

ugh. another Day another no show.

My husband called another roofer and he said he would be at our house between 6-6:30 yesterday. Of course he never showed or called.

and it is raining out again.

sigh!

-renee

I belong to Angies list. I rely on them a lot. It really is a good resource. If you call one of the service people on the list and they dont show you can report them. This goes on their record for the next person to see.

You might want to try calling Home Depot or Lowes or one of the other big boxes. They always have service people avaiable.

Also I would look around the neighborhood to see if anyone else is having a big job done. They dont like to make a special trip for a small job but if you can catch one thats already in the area they might be willing to work you in.

I did check out angie's list and it is new for our area, just started this month. First of all they had comments for stores that have been out of business for over a year. I found that odd. Then I found alot of comments that made me suspicious. They appeared to be comments by the business owner. This may be a problem because it just started this month here and not many real people put their two cents in yet.

Home depot and lowes contract out, which means I have no idea if I will get a good worker or not. also the worker I had my husband call (who didn't show) is doing a job down the street. He still hasnt' called back to say anything about why he never showed up.

I am hoping the weather will be nice this weekend. Then my husband may be able to see what the problem is. I am just about ready to call someone and say "i think I need a new roof" just to get them to show up. But then they would most likely be mad and do a bad job.

Renee,

Where is your chimney in relation to your roof (Well, I know it's up there, but where, in the middle, along a gable ...?)

I may have some suggestions about how to ladder it in a way to make it easier to go up and check on things. If you have a picture that would be great.

Meanwhile, I am looking for a diagram of the flashing in a groove thing to explain it better.

Molly~

Thanks,

Our chimney is located at the end of the house. However we do have a one story room that is at the end of the house also. I think we can get on that lower roof and I guess put a ladder up there and then get to the higher part of the roof. I hope the ladder doesn't hurt the shingles though. The lower roof is only slighty sloped. I think if we could secure the ladder we wouldn't even have to get on the higher roof because we could just look around and see the chimney from there.

There are windows that we crawl through to get to the lower roof also, (they are actually right next to the chimney!) so I think we could carefully squeeze a ladder through the window.
Other than doing that, it is a sheer two story drop to the higher roof.

Renee,

Oh boy, it sounds complicated and I'm a little worried about part of your description.

Let me see if I've got the description right .... The leaking chimney is at the end of the house - presumably at a gable end with the roof peak running at right angles to it. And nearby, in fact along side the chimney, is another, flatter and lower roof that you can climb out on from a window in the taller part of the house.

And you want to take the ladder out of that window and stand it on the (slightly sloped) lower roof and lean it up against the taller part of the house next to the chimney, right?

Are the two parts of the house (taller and lower) two boxes, each with a roof peak and two falling leaves of their own or is the lower one essentially a "half-box" which is attached at right angles to the main box and only has one slope to its roof - sort of like an enclosed porch?

When you climb out on the lower roof how much higher is the edge of the main roof where the top of the ladder would rest beside the chimney?

Does the roof surface of the lower roof extend around on all three sides of the chimney or does it end where it touches the chimney, leaving the chimney clear on one or two sides?

And when you say the chimney has a clear two-story drop, do you mean the peak of the roof near the chimney is an attic over a two story building (that would make the height of the chimney, actually closer to three stories) or is the tall part of the house only one or one and a half stories plus attic?

On the ground beside the house near the foot of the chimney, is the terrain sloped or flat?

And where are any overhead electrical lines or connections in relation to this whole area, either your main service drop or any lines going from the house to outbuildings?

And finally do you have an extension ladder? Or are you talking about a step ladder going from the lower roof to the upper one?

Sorry for so many questions, but I don't want to suggest something that would get you into trouble.

I did have one other thought. Is this chimney a solid fuel one (wood or pellets), if so perhaps you could call a chimney sweep to look at it. The scope of work that they do is much less complicated and so they may be more likely to be able to come and take a look on short notice. They will also know which masons, metal workers to call to make repairs. (And if you haven't had your chimney swept recently it should be done anyway!) And if it's just bad caulking, they might be able to fix it on the spot.

HTH,
Molly~

ok here goes..

"And you want to take the ladder out of that window and stand it on the (slightly sloped) lower roof and lean it up against the taller part of the house next to the chimney, right?"

-yeah hopefully

"Are the two parts of the house (taller and lower) two boxes, each with a roof peak and two falling leaves of their own or is the lower one essentially a "half-box" which is attached at right angles to the main box and only has one slope to its roof - sort of like an enclosed porch?"

-it is just a sloped roof, enclosed porch sorta thing. There is no roof peak, just a roof that slightly sloped away from the main house.

"When you climb out on the lower roof how much higher is the edge of the main roof where the top of the ladder would rest beside the chimney?"

-the lower roof is 9 feet from the ground and the higher roof would be about 8 feet from the lower roof, I think. I am estimating here. Each section is one story.

"Does the roof surface of the lower roof extend around on all three sides of the chimney or does it end where it touches the chimney, leaving the chimney clear on one or two sides?"

-mmmm. Oh, I had to think about that one! The Chimney is INSIDE of the house. So you can see it IN the back bedroom, but not outside the house. It is on the end of the back bedroom where the wall of the house is. So it kinda pokes out of the roof where the eaves are.

"And when you say the chimney has a clear two-story drop, do you mean the peak of the roof near the chimney is an attic over a two story building (that would make the height of the chimney, actually closer to three stories) or is the tall part of the house only one or one and a half stories plus attic? "

-uhm...Well, we have two full stories where the chimney is but the back room ceiling slopes with the roof line (like a cape cod) so we do not have a full attic here. The front of the house is tall and we have a larger attic there

"On the ground beside the house near the foot of the chimney, is the terrain sloped or flat?"

-The chimney runs between the back one story room and the tall portion of the house so the foot of the chimney is actually in the basement. The house surrounds the chimney. All our ground is mushy and it mostly slopes away from the house.

"And where are any overhead electrical lines or connections in relation to this whole area, either your main service drop or any lines going from the house to outbuildings?"

-these are in the front of the house. The chimney is in the back.

"And finally do you have an extension ladder? Or are you talking about a step ladder going from the lower roof to the upper one?"

-we have like five ladders! we have one super long one, one medium one, one that you can fold in a billion ways, and 1 metal and 1 wood folding ladder.
My husband has tried cleaning out the gutter at the top of the house and he hasn't felt comfortable doing that. Our ladder does reach there though.

"Is this chimney a solid fuel one (wood or pellets), if so perhaps you could call a chimney sweep to look at it. The scope of work that they do is much less complicated and so they may be more likely to be able to come and take a look on short notice. They will also know which masons, metal workers to call to make repairs. (And if you haven't had your chimney swept recently it should be done anyway!) And if it's just bad caulking, they might be able to fix it on the spot"

-They chimney is not used. I think there was a pot belly hooked up to it at one point but now it is gone. We have capped both sides because we didn't want water coming when it rained. We thought this would be better for the chimney. We did call our chimney sweep but they recommended a roofer. They are not masons. I was hoping he was.

this looks like our house, except we have a one story roof (like a porch) off the back where the end chimney is. This also shows how the end chimney is pretty much at the back of the house, but the chimney itself is inside.

http://www.oldhouseweb.com/stories/Detailed/10328.shtml

(the sketch of the house)