Wow! Lots of doors into a small room! Where do they all go and are they really necessary? What is the big thing at the bottom of the picture? Is there another way to exit to the outside from this end of the house so you could eliminate the door to the outside?

It would be helpful if you showed what rooms border your kitchen. People here have great ideas and should be able to help. - Stephanie

I have to second Auchmedden's comment...4 doors! AND 2 windows! Are they both "low"? You mentioned replacing the big one...what about the smaller one?

If you could post a to-scale drawing (on graph paper?) of your kitchen with dimensions and how it relates to the rest of the house, it would be easier for us to comment. Otherwise, we're just guessing. Include the door widths, window widths, lengths of walls, distance b/w windows and walls and doors.

* Can any doors be eliminated, made smaller, or converted to openings rather than doors?

* What appliances are you planning and what are their sizes?

* What size is your family? Any children (infants/toddlers/young/teen)?

Off hand, though, is that sink really usable? It's very close to your range as well. Yes, you need workspace...so if there's anyway to do something about any of the doors it would help immensely! Do you need a standard depth refrigerator or would you be willing to go w/a counter depth?

Do you have pictures of the current space? In this case, I think that would help as well.

Lastly, have you read the "Read Me" thread yet? It will help you with the process plus it has several useful links. I would check out the Finished Kitchens Blog, using the "small" kitchens category.

Here is a link that might be useful: Thread: Read Me If You're New To GW Kitchens!

I'd also like to see pictures, measurements, door swings and destinations (like living room, hall, etc).

Is there a pantry?

Would you consider the small, but mighty, LG 24" wide ref? If the ref you have is very old, this could save electricity too.

A 24" range? If you don't cook a lot of turkeys, it can be great! I actually lived with a 21" range for 7 years and entertained frequently.

Thanks for all of the feedback so far. I'll post some pictures of what the kitchen looks like now as soon as I can take them.

Look for a new thread because hopefully I can figure out the posting pictures thing.

Thanks again.

Strike the above message about a new thread. I'll just stick to attaching a link to my shutterfly page until I find some time to open a photobucket account (not enough time in the day when you have two kids under three!).

Follow the link below to some pictures of the kitchen how it is now.

The four doorways go to: the mudroom, the basement, the dining room, and the living room. When we moved in, the fridge was blocking the doorway to the living room. We moved it into the dining room in order to open up that door. We love having the doorway open and we wouldn't want to change that.

My husband and I live here with out 2.5 year old and our 8 month old. The house is 3+ bedrooms so anyone buying it would have a family and would need a kitchen with full-sized appliances. We have an 18' portable dishwasher right now and, although that works OK, a 24' full size would be ideal.

Like I said, we'll be moving in 2.5 years or so and are basically just looking to update the cabinets and make it a bit more functional until someone else with the time and the money buys the house and can do a complete remodel.

Thanks for your help!

Here is a link that might be useful: Our Kitchen Remodel Picture Page

I think your kitchen is really cute. If you are moving, I'd clean it up and let someone else dow what they want. I'd refinish the cabinets and put in a new countertop - either soapstone or granite (you don't have enough space to make it that expensive - use a prefab or remant), new undermount sink, new upper shelves, new backsplash and light fixture. I'd also put in new doors. For our doors, we have our basement door running through our kitchen, we took the single door (36 and put in two 18 inch doors so it is not so overwhelming and easier when you open them in a small space) - easy DIY if you can router out the hinges.

I would move the sink to under the window. The cabinets, IMO, will be headbaggers while at the sink the way it is set up now

There's a lot to be said for trying to work with the existing cabinets if possible and letting the new people be bamboozled by the charm. What this kitchen needs is structural change; avoid wasting money papering over a problem as much as possible.

If you do tear out to get your fridge back in, though, I'd suggest leaving the original west (?) wall cabinets with their original charm intact. You'd not use a counter over there anyway. People tend to work where it's initially most convenient, even if that's on an 18" sliver of counter with an elbow nudging the dirty dishes out of the way.

Wow - I'd be afraid to touch that one just because there's such sound original stuff there!

Seems to me this is a thread for Bayareafrancy!

Geokid, I can see why for function it might be kind of a pain in there, but there must be a way of making it work without actually destroying the sound original stuff - if you're selling, you really need a buyer who WANTS that (and there are those who do - again, I refer you to Francy as mentioned above - when she was house shopping an untouched, original kitchen was one of her REQUIREMENTS)

I guess the trick with this kitchen is to find a home for the fridge. Is there a cold larder or garage close by out one of those doors (maybe the mudroom?)

Sorry to be unhelpful as far as actual ideas, but I was really struck by how lovely the original cabinetry is in your photos - it really would seem a shame to gut it and start with something else.

Best of luck finding a solution that works for you!

I agree about all the original cabinetry especially the wall of pantry type storage. if you look at Mrslimestone's kitchen she just put in that kind of wall. To tear it out would really spoil the kitchen for a lot of future buyers. As an owner of an 1890 I agree with the others here like Francy that are so anxious to keep the bones of the old house intact. They don't make anything these days as good as the original, providing of course the original was made well to begin with. I really would not do anything except cosmetic, and completely agree with Divamum above. Good luck , Caroline

I agree that it would be pretty difficult to make a major improvement to the layout without a major renovation.

I love the wall pantry as it is, I don't think you'd gain enough counterspace to justify removing it. I also think that putting the sink in the corner and moving the stove would put the sink dangerously close to the stove. Could you keep the stove where it is and move a fridge to where the sink is and the sink to the corner?

Another thought to keep things pretty much as they are, could you put refridgerator drawers under the window by the sink? I know nothing about them, but that might get you some refrideration in the kitchen and then you could put a full size fridge in the garage or somewhere else.

hi i am a bungalow owner, so i have felt your pain-- many doorways, big windows, small kitchen. ours is surrounded by two stairways, so it will never be open to the dining room...that's ok. some people will like this! i have some suggestions that would make me want to buy this house (and keep in mind that i have foolishly already bought 2 1920s bungalows at different times). first, number all cabinets on your pictures and inside the cabinet in case you decide to remove any of them. then you can show the potential buyer how they could reinstall those cabinets to the original. that is important for some people. next, take out the cabinets under the window and see if you can put in a real dishwasher there, with a regular height counter. i suggest that black formica they have that looks very calm with white cabs. i would not remove that window...if you look at the old house forum, people are crazy for old windows, or if new, keep them the original size. your buyer may well want that window. someone a while back dealt with this problem and did put a counter just in front of the window. about the fridge..i would put in a small new one where the current sink is and move the sink to the corner, as someone else suggested.
now you have some extra lower cabs that you removed...maybe one of them could be placed next to the range, where the old small dishwasher was. don't touch that wall pantry! that is the one thing that will distinguish your 1920s home from the others on the market. good luck! kren

I too encourage you to work with what you've got. That style of original cabinetry (with the panel doors and original cupboard latches) is actually highly desireable to old house buyers, the floor to ceiling cupboard especially is to die for - if you pulled it out and sold it in an antique or architectural salvage store depending on where you live you might get $500 or more for it. Plus its very functional in a small kitchen - can get a lot of stuff in there!

The savvy old house buyer is going to see the original cabinetry, wood trim & windows as an asset, not a liability.

Guess Im not understanding why you would want to undertake an extensive (read: expensive) remodeling if you are planning to move in 2 years?

You might want to post this over in the Old House forum & get suggestions on how to spiff it up - a good paint job alone can do wonders - do a meticulous prep job with high quality alkyd enamel (cream or white) on the cupboards. Use vivid 1920s colors on the walls- sunshine yellow? With bright 1920s accents - red? old fashioned green?

If it was mine I'd rebuild the open shelving & paint in one of your accent colors, perhaps using decorative scroll sawing on the side panels, and similarly redo the microwave shelving to include more shelving space. Possibly rework the counters (not sure if that tile is original)?

PS - re: the fridge in the dining room, that's one thing I'd consider a real PITA.

What is the mud room situation? Is there room for a fridge with some cabinetry in there? I once had a walk in pantry with the fridge in it and I loved it. It wasn't too far to walk AT ALL & I really liked having the noise & bulk of it out of sight... wish I could do that in all my kitchens!

I just have to be another one to encourage you to keep the beautiful cabs.

OMG! Your taking out the cabinety!! Can I buy it? I'm putting in that exact style of cabinetry and would die to have the original cabinetry in my old house. If I was looking to buy that house and found out you removed the cabinets to sell it, I would be very sad.:( If you're not going to be in this house for very long then I would have the kitchen go with the period look (cheaper way to go and some people would love it), maybe put in a soapstone countertop and add a plate rack or repaint the shelves, put in period flooring (wood or old fashioned linoleum). IMHO I would put your money elsewhere in the house. From the little I saw with the pictures, it looks like your house has lots of charm and that can be a real asset for an old house lover like me.

Seeking ideas at the Old House Forum is a good suggestion. Obviously actually cooking in that charming old kitchen is more problematic than just admiring it from a distance, but perhaps a combined approach would be a win-win sort of band-aid. Such as keeping the north wall pantry and salvaging and refinishing some of the original doors for new cabinet boxes in a better layout. The unused originals could go to the basement, preserved for future nostalgians. By the way, remember that closed upper cabinets all around would make your workspace feel significantly more closed in. If there were any other place nearby for storage, using that might be a way to retain some of the existing charm.

One idea about the fridge problem, is there enough room to put a small fridge 24" in what looks like a back entryway? If it's just outside the door from the pantry cabinets, I think it wouldn't be too inconvenient. Then put a larger fridge/freezer in the basement (I think that's what the door next to the stove?) to replenish the small fridge as necessary.

Another idea is to remove the cabinet under the window, put a beadboard backing on it and then put casters under. Might need to reinforce with plywood on the bottom. That way you could wheel it over to the stove when you need more space there and then tuck it back under the window when done, or if you don't use the door to the left of the range often the rolling cabinet could go there. If you do that I would put a butcher block counter top on it. And then a small dish washer could go in to the right of the sink.

Thanks for all of the messages and encouragement.

Keeping original stuff is what my heart has been telling me, but my mind has been saying update. The kitchen does have a lot of charm, but also a lot of wasted space.

The cabinet under the sink is not original. Originally, the sink was a stand-alone and the previous owners built a box and re-tiled everything to make one continuous counter top. The back corner under the sink is a complete waste of space. There's some original shelving under there that you can't get to.

Also, the two cabinet 'doors' under the window aren't really doors. Those are the pull-out vegetable bins. We have our garbage in one and recycling in another. Convenient, but not an efficient use of space. Maybe we could retrofit one with shelves and make one a cabinet?

Finally, the open shelves on the wall are something we recently put up. They're 40 bucks worth of shelving and brackets from IKEA.

I think you guys might have convinced me to just work with what we have. We had wanted to do a small redo to make it more appealing to more buyers, but maybe we could still do that by reworking things.

I have an idea: Take out the fake sink cabinet and replace it with an actual sink cabinet. That would leave a 12 inch gap between the sink cabinet and the cabinets on the adjoining wall, but it would make the hidden original shelves accessible. We could get a full counter top to expand the gap though. Does that make sense?

That still doesn't solve how to get the fridge in the kitchen, but we could always move it back in front of the door to the living room when we go to sell. It's honestly not that inconvenient in the dining room, but prospective buyers might see it and be turned off right away. The mudroom is way too small for a fridge. I would have put one in there right away if that would have worked. As it is now, it's difficult to just have two adults in there at the same time.

I really like what kren_pa had to say about arranging things, but would having cabinets in front of a window look odd? What would you see of them from the outside?

I have some pictures of what it looked like before we moved in. We've done some painting, but that's about it. And you can see what it all looks like with the fridge in the doorway.

Thanks again everyone! And I just might move this to the Old House forum.

Here is a link that might be useful: Kitchen Pictures

And I want to say, I'm an old house lover too. We purposely bought this house because of the craftsmanship and the details. We are simply honestly concerned about selling our house in this market and we thought an updated kitchen would help us sell. Maybe it wouldn't. And maybe especially not to the other old house lovers out there that would appreciate the house like we do. I never thought of that angle.

My sister has a similar issue with the windows in an old kitchen. Her sink is directly in front of a window that is too low. The countertop just ends and you can reach down to open the window. You don't really notice it unless you're standing at the sink. I've never heard her say anything about water splashing down there.

What about keeping the pantry cabinets only and getting new everything else that look similar.

Can you close up the door area where the fridge originally was? Then, put the get a counter-dept fridge (we got a smaller one that is much less bulky as we have a small kitchen that allows a panel at sears outlet for $950 but that was pure luck) and then move the oven where the sink is and move the dishwasher/sink under the window? And, get some upper cabinets where the shelves are.

If you can access your basement, rewiring and the plumbing isn't that hard as new DIY (we did it - it was scarry but it is do able).

Wait a sec! you said the cab under the sink is not original that the sink is a stand alone! Wow! you may have a real beauty of a sink. Some people here search for those! I forget who snagged an old Kohler free standing sink.
I have a 1923 house, and the kitchen which was 5x9 ( DH knocked out one pantry wall to make it bigger)had been remodeled in the late 40's and they didn't do a bang up job, Too bad. I would have loved to have the original items to preserve and cherish and that was before it was trendy! Just think how many buyers will be interested! perhaps you can get one of the old fashioned stoves and frigs. Soapstone the counter. Leave the under sink space open( if it has wonderful legs)
My frig lives in the pantry- which is quite common in my old house neighborhood- its close enough and I would rather have a kitchen table.
Imagine your 1920 space with the doorways and windows without the lovely cabinets and it would look more like mine did for so many years. you are lucky to have such nice old things! Sue

Yeah-glad to hear you're keeping it! We old house nuts are an opinionated bunch aren't we?

Its just simple supply and demand really - the more people tear out the old stuff, the more valuable it becomes -- in people's minds and in real dollars and cents terms. Like old collector cars and Victorian oak furniture which was not too long ago considered too "dark" and "old looking."

Yeah the sink with legs would be over the top spectacular - I know Kohler makes a repro sink 4 or 5 feet long but its kind of expensive. I had an old refrigerator with legs and motor on top a long time ago - now I see that restored they cost several THOUSAND dollars - wish I wouldve kept it!

You know, with houses everything's a trade off. Is there really ever *the* truly perfect kitchen? Sure you might be able to have more work space and storage but if you lose the light airy feeling of it is it worth it? For some people it might be, others not. For me a little bit of light and vintage charm goes a long way!

BTW - where does that other door go, the one to the left of the stove? If its to the basement, could that be entered some other way?

Sue beat me to it . I had been looking at that sink and then read that it was free-standing. You can get replacement legs for it, if you need to. Check with Nor'east Architectural salvage, they have a web site. I have bought a lot of stuff from them . They will have lots of things to enhance your space or know where to get it. Good Luck....c

Sorry guys, but the sink itself isn't original. It's a standard Eljer top-mount double bowl ceramic sink. I wouldn't even think about a remodel if we had one of those old sinks. What I meant is that the cabinet under it is a custom (but not a do-it-yourself-er, not quality custom) cabinet. There is actually a radiator under the sink, hence the steel mesh doors to allow the heat to come out. When the sink was a stand alone, that radiator would have been visible.

LOL well we sure jumped the gun didn't we? Well, in any case your cabinets are spectacular and any one of us old house people would arm wrestle to the death for them! The windows are wonderful. And it has great charm too! I hope you enjoy the journey and share photos as you go! Sue

You've got a radiator under the sink, hmmmm. I'm assuming you don't want to get into money required to change that out?

Maybe you could post a sketch of your current layout with dimensions, including what is behind each door. Also label what is and is not original and any other critical facts (like the location and dimension of the radiator).

Also, would you be open to expanding the small entryway a little, just enough to include the fridge?

Would removing the coat closet and opening it into the kitchen offer any help in terms of layout?

so sorry to hear about the radiator...no wonder you don't want to put the fridge there!! lol... those radiators are a pain. our POs dealt with it by simply removing the kitchen radiator...now it is COLD.
about "but would having cabinets in front of a window look odd? What would you see of them from the outside? " i was thinking of a specific thread on this forum, where someone solved the problem and kept the window. it looked very nice from inside and i think they showed the outside. with a cafe curtain, you wouldn't notice. i don't know the search term to find that old thread, but maybe someone here remembers...

FWIW, i wouldn't put a fridge in front of a functioning LR door...the home inspector and the realtor of your potential buyer would probably freak out about that....i would get rid of the door with some drywall...it's not like people will be filtering in and out of that kitchen with cocktails in hand...it's too small.

good luck, i am happy to know the wall pantry will be saved!! (old house types are a little nutty) part of our own nearly extinct 1920s cabinetry is still around...one double cupboard installed in the basement, holding the computer wireless router....who says those old cabinets don't work for today?? kren

Oh I feel for you! 20's kitchens- theres never a place for the fridge. If you are anything like I was I'll bet every time you are in the kitchen you rack your brain for the perfect solution of how to fix your small and dysfunctional kitchen. We struggled and struggled to find a way to fit a fridge into ours. We finally chose to place in in the breakfast nook and to recess it into the mudroom wall. Not a perfect option as the fridge is visible from the dining room but it functions very well and is not in the least bit awkward.

Is there any chance that you could place yours in the mudroom and have it recessed into the wall so it would fit? Don't know what is behind the mudroom. Otherwise I would wall over the living room doorway and get a counter depth fridge so that it doesn't stick out over the doorway. It would be sad to block that entrance though.

I second everyone else's suggestion about keeping the wall cabinet if you can as it is really charming. I would replace the other side with a cabinet that allowed a full sized dishwasher. With a family of 4 I'm sure that you need it.

The stove side of your kitchen is begging for a vintage stove! A charming stove would help sell it to other old house nuts like us. here is a picture of the fridge as it sits in relation to the rest of the kitchen. it actually works out to have it in the breakfast nook in that it is convenient.

Hi Everyone,

I thought I would post an update to our kitchen. Posting on here has been great and it has completely changed our minds about what we want to do.

First, the mudroom is just a glorified porch. When we moved in, the outside door was actually in the kitchen (where the curtain is now). We took that door out and replaced the screen door on the porch with a real door. That made the mudroom. We insulated the floor from underneath outside, but the walls aren't insulated. Hence the curtain on the doorway. That keeps the heat in during the winter months. The mudroom is very small and there is no room for a fridge.

We thought about the suggestions of putting the fridge in the mudroom and we decided that solution really wasn't much different than keeping the fridge in the dining room. It would still be in another room. And having it in the dining room is very convenient for meals with little kids.

So, we talked with a carpenter friend of ours and we decided to do the following:
-Rework the original cabinets under the low window to allow a dishwasher. Our carpenter friend insists it can be done while keeping most of the original cabinets. This involves raising them to standard counter height. It will block the lower few inches of the window, but I've seen pictures of it done before (some on this site) and I think it will look fine.
-Keep sink where it is.
-Fill in the 36x24 inch space between the sink and the wall with a custom blind cabinet (carpenter friend will also make this).
-Keep stove where it is.
-Replace portable dw next to stove with a 15" cabinet.
-Install new cabinets above stove.
-Keep large wall of cabinets.
-Redo floor. Hoping the original wood under the terrible tile is refinishable, but if not, we'll lay another floor over it.
-Add pendants and install the cool ceiling fan we have but have never put up.
-Maybe put in cabinets on sink wall, but might just stay with open shelves.

Again, thanks everyone and we'll post pics when it's done. My goal is by my son's 1st birthday in July and since we don't have to move any plumbing or do anything major, I think it can be done.

Amanda

Oh, forgot to mention that we're going to get an apron sink.

And we're debating on whether to move the radiator pipes to below the other window (basement is open and would be easy), or just cap off the radiator and put an electric baseboard under that other window. Either way, the radiator under the sink has gotta go. It's really inefficient where it is - unless you have a need for heated counter tops since that's where most of the heat goes.

decodilly - love, love, love your kitchen. Looks like we have the same kind of features. We also have those same old hinges for our cabinets that you have. Found them in a box in the basement. At least previous owners had the sense to keep them although why they replaced them with hideous square brass ones is up to me.

"At least previous owners had the sense to keep them although why they replaced them with hideous square brass ones is up to me."

Meant: "beyond me" instead of "up to me".

Maybe I should proofread these messages more carefully before I post them!

Thanks for the update. It sounds like a good plan and having a carpenter friend should REALLY come in handy. I think moving the radiator to under the small window in front of the basement door is a great idea! Gains you that storage space below the sink. If you go with baseboard would you be able to open the basement door the whole way?

I was going through some old stuff on my computer and I found this thread that I posted years ago when we were just beginning the kitchen remodel in our old home (old as in age and as in former). I realized I never posted a follow-up and I thought I would do that....just in case anyone is dying to know how this turned out! :-)

Thanks to all who helped me and who gave advice. We think it turned out all right. The new owners *love* it and said it was a major selling point. I think we made some good decisions.

Thanks again gardenweb friends!

Here is a link that might be useful: Finished Product (and the journey along the way)