I'm not going to debate the raw food thing. Just wanted to state the obvious. When the vet says they don't recommend it there was a reason but since the debate is over I won't get into that.

Thanks for all of your responses. I think we can safely assume that everyone who participates on this particular thread loves their pets, not one of us more than the others:)

I am not up for cooking two meals a day for three dogs. That would also entail making sure all the nutritional needs are met, and since I have no background in veterinary nutrition, and have a busy life, I will be staying with the bagged dog food.

I would not feed raw either, but for those who do, I am sure you feel you have good reason and are getting the results desired or you would not be feeding it.

Let's all hope that this recall goes no further.

Lastly - QQ, please provide details on problems you have heard regarding the quality of Nutro's products. Thanks.

"Actually raw food has the same risks for animals that it does for humans. "

Very true.Consumption of raw food can lead to WORMS,e-coil,and other problems.I wouldnt feed meat to my pet unless it was cooked first.

Labmama - I also use Nutro products for my puppies. I haven't switched and at this time I don't think I will. The list of ingedients doesn't include wheat gluten and I think by now, the dry would have been recalled if needed. Of course, I am watching the puppies carefully and since they both eat the same thing, if I see any problems in their potty habits or behavior, I will be off to the vet in a heartbeat. I too though would like to see a more postitive statement from the company about the safety.

I feed my dogs and cats dry Chicken Soup dog/cat food no wheat and meat as the first three ing. I make gravy for the dogs from Diamond Beef, Chicken, Lamb and rice canned food. My cats like Friskies the cuts that are recalled I only use the wet food to get them in for the night so I guess I will use hambuger or cooked chicken, they like that too.

I don't remember too many of the details. It was a forum post to my breed's mailing yahoo group list thingamabobber. Someone said their dog had loose stools or something and they called up nutro and they said to return the bag for a refund and someone else came in and said they had a similar problem. Then I told them how my older dog did poorly on nutro natural choice and always had gushy poo. that was the gist of it. I tried to search the thing for the string of posts because I can't find it. I was going to email it to you

Acorn - my husband found a site last night that said Diamond had recalled their variety packs food due to Aflotoxin, not the rat posion situation. He had done a "dog food recall" search. You may want to check about the cat food.

I have fed raw for 9 years with zero problems. Zero. I know it is not for everyone, but I am happy with it, and would never consider feeding commercial food to my pets. Not because of what is going on now, but because I just don't think it's good for them in general.

Cool Mama and SilverandGold, Please do some research before claiming such things. Everyone needs to make informed decisions on the best way to feed their pets. This is a place to share information not judgements. I often recommend premium manufactured foods here, because I believe some of the foods provide adequate nutrition, and I know that not everyone wants to feed raw. I don't claim that the manufactured foods cause allergies and dental problems even though many poorly formulated foods do - and worse. Quirky, This isn't a debate, it's about sharing information. If you only 'trust' information from your vet, that's your choice. But others prefer to investigate and make their own decisions.

Mboston -yes there was a recall of Diamond pet food a couple of years ago, it only affected food containing corn - aflotoxin is a contamination of corn - it was a very regrettable incident, however, the Diamond food acorn talked about - which is what I use, also, doesn't contain corn, wheat or soy, and basically their Diamond canned chicken/lamb/beef/and rice is just that - more pricey, though.
Using anything prepared by an outside source - for human or animal - is an act of faith.
I believe it is scary if one gigantic company is responsible for such a huge amount of products as is Menu Foods.

I just found out the dogfood I buy, Wellness, is made in part by Menu foods. I could not access the Old Mother Hubbard site today.
Menu also, in part, produces Wysong and Newman's Own.

May be switching to Canidae.

Here is a link that might be useful: An easy to read article about Menu

Sorry to read about the problems in the US with commercial feed and hope some good comes of it but this schmozzle just reinforces my confidence that managing my dogs' nutrition by feeding good quality species-appropriate raw food is safer.

Two relevant areas here are the use of human grade or otherwise 'clean' food, and the physiology of the dog; the dog no more being a little human than a cat is a little dog.

Cynthia- I did all the research I need to do... I asked my vet. The vet said she'd sooner recommend the cheapest of the cheap grocery store kibble over raw due to parasites and the hazard from harmful bacteria being spread around the house. We don't need any of that here. Ill tell you what one of mine would do if I gave him a bowl of raw chicken. He'd take it out of the bowl, shake it in his mouth vigorously then run over to his favorite spot on the carpet and tear it to shreds before eating it. The people that feed raw across the various forums are so obstinate that every discussion about this turns into a debate. Not only that a pound of boneless chicken breast cost about $5 here. And has an expiration date of less than a week later. What a pain to keep going back to the store to get more meat. And an expensive pain at that. Somebody suggested to me that I feed turkey necks, 2 per meal. Ok great. A pack of 6 turkey necks was like $7. For two dogs eating twice a day, that's almost $300 a month to feed them! I've only seen turkey necks in the store once and they only had one package of them. Gimme a break.

It wouldn't hurt to give them a raw chicken wing outside once a week. It's like a great multi vitamin. And I don't know where you buy your chicken but chicken here regularly, as in almost every week, goes on sale for 1.99 per pound for boneless skinless. Which is not what you want to give dogs anyway because they need bones and skin too.
I always keep chicken in the freezer so I don't know why you would have to run out all the time. Buy three packages on sale instead of one. I buy chicken wings and keep in the freezer.

I am presently feeding my Golden the Kirkland Signature Lamb and Rice and have not had any problems and from what I have been able to find it is not on the list.

But I found this recipe for a doggie meatloaf and while back and have been thinking of making this for her instead of commercial dog food or raw.

Mable's Meat Loaf - meat eater's version
(makes two large loaves - 24 slices)

1 1/2 pounds Ground Beef , Venison, Chicken or Turkey
2 cups cooked & pureed Beans and/or Lentils- I use Pinto Beans
2 cups Corn Masa Harina Flour (corn flour)- Masa Harina is a fortified, fine ground corn flour that has been partially precooked in lime water (which makes it easier to digest). It is usually used for making tortillas and tamales and can be found in the ethnic (Mexican) section of most grocery stores. If you cannot find it, you can substitute regular corn meal.
1 cups Rolled Oats (I buy in bulk)
4 cups cooked rice (I buy in bulk)
1 cup wheat germ (I buy in bulk)
1 - 2 cups liquid (water, milk, whey, stock, etc) - This amount will vary depending on the moisture content of your other ingredients.
2 eggs
2 cups (1 lb.) vegetables, pureed - You can use any vegetable. It's good to vary ingredients because variety in diet contributes to good health. I usually use frozen mixed vegetables, peas or broccoli. I buy them is a really big bags (it's cheaper that way) , thaw, puree in my food processor, divide into 2 Cup portions and refreeze for future use.
3 tsp. garlic (granulated)
3 tsp. Calcium Citrate -OR- 6 tsp. egg shell powder - a source of necessary calcium
1/2 tsp. salt substitute (potassium chloride) - a source of necessary potassium - you can find this in any grocery store where they sell salt.
2 Tbsp Worcestershire Sauce
1/4 cup ketchup (optional- not for use with diabetics)
6 tsp. Herbal Nutritional Supplement (optional, but highly recommended)
other optional supplements if necessary such as Arthritis & Joint Support mix, Glucosamine, MSM, Kelp, etc. (Mable got 1 1/2 tsp. of Glucosamine & 1 1/2 tsp. of MSM - Note: reports now suggest not giving glucosamine to diabetics)
It is important that your dog should also receive a good dog multi-vitamin each day (a vitamin formulated specifically for dogs, not humans), either as a powder mixed into this loaf, or a tablet given as a treat.
In a very large bowl. Using your hands, mix all the ingredients together very well. (Since ground meats differ in consistency, you may need to add more liquid). Put into two large loaf pans and spread out evenly. Bake at 350 degrees for one hour. Cool and store in the refrigerator. Makes 12 slices per loaf.

To serve, slice and cut into bite sized chunks. You can also slice off servings, put in ziplock bags and freeze them for later use.

Measurement of the loaf pans I use:
measurement taken from bottom of pan: 8 1/4" X 4 1/4"
measurement taken from top of pan: 9 1/4" X 5 1/4"
height: 2 3/4"
I bought my pans at Wal-Mart.
Serving amount:
You will have to adjust to fit the caloric needs of your own dog. See the Daily Caloric Requirements for Adult Dogs chart.

Mable, who was a 60 pound Basset Hound got two slices, twice a day (a breakfast and a dinner for a total of four slices per day). She also received other nutritionally adjusted home made foods (such as Mable's Peanut Butter Bones) throughout the day which contribute to her proper daily caloric intake.

Nutritional Breakdown for four slices
(one sixth of total recipe)
(made with ground beef)

(this recipe makes two large loaves total and I divide it into 24 slices)
Calories in four slices: 837
(one slice would have 210)

20% from Protein
33% from Fat
48% from Carb
Vit C 7 mg
Phos 659 mg
Calcium 1849 mg
Iron 10 mg
Protein 41 g Sodium 534 mg
Potassium 1350 mg
Tot Fat 31 g Magnesium 179 mg
Sat Fat 11 g Zinc 9 mg
Mono Fat 12 g Copper 1 mg
Poly Fat 4 g Manganese 4 mg
Carb 100 g Selenium 64 ug
Fiber 15 g Vit A 2739 IU
Ash 5 g Vit E 1 mg ATE
Cholesterol 167 mg Thiamin 1 mg
Vit B6 1 mg Riboflavin 1 mg
Folate 268 ug Niacin 13 mg
Vit B12 3 ug Pantothenic Acid 2 mg

this is the link http://fiascofarm.com/herbs/Mables_Meatloaf.htm#meat

Here is a link that might be useful: Molly's Herbals

I think I read the hazardous chmicals in the recalled food were in wheat gluten. If the pet food you feed lists no wheat gluten, I think you are safe on this recall.

That is only my lay-person's opinion.

Also, if you can switch to a food not made by Menu Foods Income Fund, you have less of a chance of getting the contaminated wheat gluten. Although another company (I forget which) just recalled their shaped treats because they were made with similar batches of wheat gluten that Menu Foods had used.

I know the recalled product's ingredient. What about the yet unrecalled food? That was my question. What do we have to look forward to????

Also, I am skipping thru these posts and the feeding raw thing. Someone recommended giving your dog a chicken wing likening same to a multi-vitamin. Dogs shouldn't be given chicken bones, they can splinter. Were you kidding?

Daily lurker here, but I wanted to share this link about Nutro products.

I have fed my 2 black Labs Nurtro dry food since puppyhood with the approval of my vet.

Their Kongs get stuffed with a Nutro Tartar Control biscuit & then I smear each side of the biscuit with low fat peanut butter.

Here is a link that might be useful: Letter from Dave Kravis, President & CEO, Nutro Products

Labmomma, fast grown, uncooked, chicken bone surrounded by enough flesh to encourage adequate ripping and chewing is as safe/ safer as a processed nugget. That's to say, with a living organism, incidents can happen with either. Cooked bones of any kind a whole different thing and dangerous from splintering, impaction.

The people on the rawfeeding yahoo groups spend a lot of time assisting owners of dogs (and cats) which are new to chewing, in safe practice. These groups aren't about discussing whether raw is better than dry. They are not barf groups and involved preparation is not part of their regime; sourcing a variety of quality animal parts including organs and stockpiling them in the freezer is.

Having dalmatians (= metabolic hiccup) means for me modifying this raw lifestyle only somewhat. Any thoughts of making patties are gone for good.

You might like to have a look at Tom Lonsdale's site, rawmeatybonesdotcom He was treated so abysmally by the veterinary establishment back when, it was obvious he was onto something or they wouldn't have bothered. History keeps repeating itself apparently. His two books are downloadable free, the man is not about white noise, nor about making money.

Cheers
Rose

Interesting letter from the pres. of Nutro. Over a week ago Nutro had been removed from the shelves a few towns away and recently a friend told me it has been removed from the shelves in our town as well. I am quite sure they are at least examining it as there have been issues.

My 2 cents - especially since your dogs are older - keep feeding them what you have them on. Changing dog diet can really screw up their systems. I changed my dogs diet when the local pet shop ran out of the brand I like, within 2 weeks he was throwing up after every meal....I would stick with what you are suing now, chances are if they have not gotten sick yet, they wont..of course there are no guarantees. Good luck

Hi All,

Just my few cents worth on the raw food issue.

I guess having 8 vets in 16 years has had some positive impact. Although at the time I was having problems with them, I didn't see it. Anyway. Almost all of them said not to feed raw food of any kind. Since I have had to cook for my dogs for various reasons over the years, they got boiled food. This keeps them from getting to much fat.

As for feeding a high quality food. It does cost more, but also gives more. I'm convinced that my old girl made it to 14 even with her numerous issues, partly because of her good food (plus I cooked for her for at least 3 years and added that to dry).

I now have a 11 year old Lab/Terrier that acts like a 2 year old. She gets venison and potato food. My Shepard/Hound (1.5 years and Lab/Weimaraner (5 years) gets Armitis.

SG

I like to believe that food makes a difference but my parents dog, whom I took care of in the end, ate a small bowl of ice cream everyday and kibbles and bits. He lived to fourteen and died of a brain tumor. I like to think he would have lived to 18 if he had had premeuim food.

bumblebeez - my old gal gets a little dish of Spumoni every nite. She is doing exceptionally well given the challenges of severe hip dysplasia, epilepsy, leaky bladder, etc. She eats the Nutro for sensitive stomachs which has served her well since I put her on it a few years ago. Now and then I have to go with Eukanuba Low Residue, but for the most part, we are happy with the Nutro product she eats. She has outlived my parents dog by 3 years now. If I would have taken a bet years ago, I would have bet she would have been the first to go. He developed liver cancer and died very quickly. At best, it is a crap shoot even when you feed the best food you can afford.

I really don't think the premium food would have prevented a brain tumor. I've seen dogs go to 14-16 eating Purina Dog Chow? Life is random.

Uh, duh cynthia - my comments about raw food ARE based on research. Plus, for me it makes sense. Humans don't typically eat raw food because it is DANGEROUS. It would make sense that the same dangers would apply to cats - that they are also susceptable to food poisening and parasites found in raw meat. Please don't YOU make judgements that we didn't do research. Besides, if you read my comments I said it was not FOR ME ("I would not go that route myself"). That is based on my RESEARCH. I did not say you shouldn't, NOR that you are a bad person for doing so. So, please - use your own advice "This is a place to share information not judgements". No one was judging you, so don't judge us for not signing up for the raw food.

The people that feed raw across the various forums are so obstinate that every discussion about this turns into a debate.

If you re-read your post(s), you are actually the obstinate one. At least in the vein that you state things as facts when they are not facts at all, only what your particular vet told you. Not all of my vets have been in love with what I feed, however they have not taken the stance yours has. I recently lost one of my dogs to cancer, and just prior to her death my vet asked for the breakdown of what I was feeding, to see if it was appropriate for her disease. She found no problem overall, and also sent the diet info to an Animal Nutritionist. The *only* thing that came back from the nutritionist was that I should add some Vit C daily.

Re: bacteria....I don't know about yours, but my pets lick their butts and sometimes eat very questionable things while outside. Still, in 9 years, I never had one problem with my dogs or my family getting sick.

Not only that a pound of boneless chicken breast cost about $5 here. And has an expiration date of less than a week later. What a pain to keep going back to the store to get more meat. And an expensive pain at that. Somebody suggested to me that I feed turkey necks, 2 per meal. Ok great. A pack of 6 turkey necks was like $7. For two dogs eating twice a day, that's almost $300 a month to feed them! I've only seen turkey necks in the store once and they only had one package of them. Gimme a break.

If you're buying retail, yes, it is expensive. (although you don't feed boneless breasts...it's necks, backs or wings.) I live in a decent sized city, and I buy chicken necks wholesale. 25 cents a pound in 40 pound cases. I simply started calling wholesalers in the yellow pages and found two that will sell to me. A friend of mine lives in a more rural area (in a different state) and gets her stuff from the local farmers for even less. I buy in bulk, portion, and freeze. It takes about an hour or so to make a month's worth for 2 dogs.

I'm not trying to argue that you yourself should feed raw, just pointing out that it in no way costs $300 a month, or even close to that. I spent about $20.00 a month to feed two dogs. That includes the chicken necks, ground beef, fresh veggies, raw liver & gizzards, eggs, etc. Even if I had to pay retail, it would cost about $60 a month if I bought on sale @ $1.99/#

Humans don't typically eat raw food because it is DANGEROUS. It would make sense that the same dangers would apply to cats - that they are also susceptable to food poisening and parasites found in raw meat.

It would make sense if we were the same species as cats and dogs. We are not. Every species on the planet is designed to eat a species appropriate diet. Sharks eat raw fish and raw seals daily. Wolves eat raw prey. Bunnies subsist on vegetation. Birds eat seeds and earthworms. Frogs eat flies and garden slugs, while they are still alive. Spiders eat various insects that get trapped in their webs. None of these would be appropriate for humans, but they are appropriate for those animals. Why would it be any different for cats and dogs, a totally different species than humans?

That particular point has nothing to do with us being different species. In fact, cats digestive systems are very sensative - more than ours. I am not going simply off what my vet said. Unless it is something my cat just killed, I am not willing to take a risk. I know all about the fact that cats are carnivours - has nothing to do with the fact that I am not trusting food that is processed in bulk, or even something fresh from the butcher. Quit being so obstinate yourself, and leave us alone. From our research, these are facts that we determined. Your research led you a different path. I am guessing you are not a feline nutrionist - so your facts are no more valid than mine to anyone else on this forum. We are simply stating what we have learned ourselves.

FYI - here is an excellent document discussing the pros AND cons of the raw diet. There are others out there, but this one is very good.

Here is a link that might be useful: Raw Feeding

I am NOT trying to convince anyone to feed raw, nor are any of the other raw feeders. Nor am we slamming people who are feeding what we consider unhealthy food. It's just irritating when opinions are mixed in with facts and posted as such.

The undeniable fact is that a huge amount of commercial pet food is being recalled, dare I say because the manufacturers are more interested in profit than in our pets. It is unforgiveable that some pets have died, and that the rest of the owners are in a panic about what to feed theirs. I sincerely hope that everyone is able to find safe food, and that the pet food manufacturers will be investigated and closely monitored in the future.

I wouldn't use Wikipedia to defend any side ....They are not credible.

The Diamond recall is a year old the problem with google sometimes is everything is there. When we at the feed store decided to get in pet food and pet supports we checked out the companys we picked Diamond because they were the only one that made their own products. We figured they would be more accountable. Then there was the recall, it didn't affect us here on the west coast because there is a western plant and an eastern plant and the moldy corn came from the eastern plant. The food under Diamond didn't contain corn the food under the name Country Value does. I am not feeding anything that contains wheat gluten, I am also not eating anything that contains wheat gluten myself. I read all my lables, I might feed myself rawLOL.

I'm a raw-feeder too. If anyone wants to know more email me or start a pro-raw food thread and I'll participate - I'm not here to argue about it though. I do feed some cooked "human" food as well.

This whole pet food recall make you wonder what's really in that processed food you yourself are eating. Ugh. I stay away fro most processed foods, but I do like condiments and sauces, and those are highly processed and full of additives too. Lights a fire under me to start making more of my own sauces and things I buy like sausages and pickles.

That wheat gluten is MSG, there are a lot of different ways food processers add MSG to our foods and not call it MSG. So they're putting it in pet food too - figures.

Ugh, how did this get to be all about arguing feeding raw? I didn't ask if you are feeding raw. I asked if you are using products by a manufacturer who has had some products recalled and, what are you thinking about the rest of their products.

Please start another thread if you want to banter about feeding raw.

TIA

Raw is an option Labmomma. Information was shared by those who have experience. There was no proselytizing. The only arguing and emotion I saw came from those who had strong opinions against raw. There are others reading the thread who may have learned something. There is no risk free food for animals or humans. So it's up to everyone to collect the facts, evaluate and make their own decisions.

TIC.....because I wasn't correctly socialised by the appropriate age (reared in the bush sans siblings), I try to figure out what real and cyber people literally mean by their words.... so when I read your post title, it never occurred to me that raw wasn't a legitimate option to respond with.

There are the remains of a small bag of kibble in our kitchen; when I buy another, it will be kept in the freezer (tropics here) for emergencies. Meanwhile I'm going to continue to read widely on nutrition for many species.

Cheers,
Rose

Weed30- you are the worst one in the bunch with this topic of conversation. I was once open minded to feeding raw then I starting asking questions about it to learn more. The more I found out, the more I knew it wasn't for me. You TRY to turn this into a war every time but I never have participated until now. Yall are like those religious zealots that come knocking on the door trying to get people to convert to some cult.

If a debate is really what you want, then it's a debate you got sweetheart...

I wrote: The people that feed raw across the various forums are so obstinate that every discussion about this turns into a debate.

weed wrote: If you re-read your post(s), you are actually the obstinate one. At least in the vein that you state things as facts when they are not facts at all, only what your particular vet told you. Not all of my vets have been in love with what I feed, however they have not taken the stance yours has.

What did I say that was not a fact? And for your information I did consider this for quite some time and discussed it with more than just person. And what stance did your vets have, darlin?
weed wrote:
I recently lost one of my dogs to cancer, and just prior to her death my vet asked for the breakdown of what I was feeding, to see if it was appropriate for her disease. She found no problem overall, and also sent the diet info to an Animal Nutritionist. The *only* thing that came back from the nutritionist was that I should add some Vit C daily.

Sorry to hear about your loss but what the hell does this have to do with anything pertaining to anything? Your vet probably didn't want to get in an argument with you since you wouldn't have listened to him or her anyway and told them they were dumb and didn't know the facts. Am I right?
weed wrote: Re: bacteria....I don't know about yours, but my pets lick their butts and sometimes eat very questionable things while outside. Still, in 9 years, I never had one problem with my dogs or my family getting sick.
Really, not a single stomach flu? No diarrhea? Then that's great, You must take extra time and precaution to clean up afterwards. I have a long haired dog and another one that takes his food out of the bowl and drops it on the floor prior to eating it. I don't like to clean.

I wrote: Not only that a pound of boneless chicken breast cost about $5 here. And has an expiration date of less than a week later. What a pain to keep going back to the store to get more meat. And an expensive pain at that. Somebody suggested to me that I feed turkey necks, 2 per meal. Ok great. A pack of 6 turkey necks was like $7. For two dogs eating twice a day, that's almost $300 a month to feed them! I've only seen turkey necks in the store once and they only had one package of them. Gimme a break.

Weed wrote: If you're buying retail, yes, it is expensive. (although you don't feed boneless breasts...it's necks, backs or wings.) I live in a decent sized city, and I buy chicken necks wholesale. 25 cents a pound in 40 pound cases. I simply started calling wholesalers in the yellow pages and found two that will sell to me. A friend of mine lives in a more rural area (in a different state) and gets her stuff from the local farmers for even less. I buy in bulk, portion, and freeze. It takes about an hour or so to make a month's worth for 2 dogs.

More power to ya. I can't even get a stinkin piece of fish in this god forsaken place. It takes me about 8 seconds to scoop out kibble and drop it in a bowl. And another 3 seconds to rinse out the bowl in a sink every once in a while. You want to know what I had for dinner tonight? Mrs. Pauls fish sticks. I hate cooking, I hate cleaning.
Weed wrote:
I'm not trying to argue that you yourself should feed raw, just pointing out that it in no way costs $300 a month, or even close to that. I spent about $20.00 a month to feed two dogs. That includes the chicken necks, ground beef, fresh veggies, raw liver & gizzards, eggs, etc. Even if I had to pay retail, it would cost about $60 a month if I bought on sale @ $1.99/#
Oh that's fine. I thought you were trying to argue that I didn't have the facts. Well I guess I did have the facts, just that I can't get chicken for $1.99 a lb or wholesale and I don't want to waste time sanitizing the place every time I feed the dogs.

Fact: I pay more money for kibble forumlated in a lab by professional pet nutritionists that companies spend many millions of dollars to develop and distribute, fresh and ready to use. Evidently I don't have the skill set to do this on my own or have the time and patience and can barely make a piece of toast without screwing it up or burning down the place. So dummies like me will stick to the bagged stuff and you can continue to imply that we are not giving our pets the best. Whatever makes you feel like a winner.

OY!!!..............

Quirky, you need more exercise. Got to redirect that aggression. :-)

LOL Cynthia. The argument was started by you by accusing those that didn't agree with you of being underinformed and judgemental. You obviously didn't reread your very rude post. You started the arguing and emotions by being rude, argumentative, and emotional to those that don't agree with you !!! Up until your post, we were just discussing various options and sharing opinions - you turned it into a PERSONAL issue with your post. Don't be so blind to your own rudeness.

Labmomma in answer to your original question I also have fed my dogs Large Breed Nutro for years. I have been very satisfied with the health of my dogs and so is my vet. There is really nothing to indicate that the dry foods are contaminated.

Of course every time a dog takes ill for any reason now the owners will tend to place blame on the food as a knee jerk reaction. Some stores will remove product that is fine out of confusion and or fear of lawsuits.

In the meantime I will continue to feed dry and stay away from canned food. I used to give my dogs used to get a quarter of a large can each as "gravy". Now they will be getting cooked or canned veggies or broth instead until the canned food issue is completely resolved.

Cooking for 2 85 pounders is out of the question for me. The nutritional supplements I would need to buy alone would bankrupt my doggie budget.

I won't touch the raw food debate with a ten foot pole only to say I have never met a person of science or a vet (I've asked many) who condones it without some major misgivings.

I feed my dogs Eukanuba kibble, but am interested in the raw food issue. I think it is becoming more understood and accepted as a good choice, and it makes sense to me. I may get some raw chicken wing and necks -- I already make up cooked rice, carrots, barley, hamburger, and kibble into frozen treats (stuffed into marrow bones), so adding some raw food gives some variety to my beloved dogs.

My reply was on the rude side.
My sincere apologies to weed30 and the rest of the folks here that read my reply.

I get a little upset when the raw feeders indrectly suggest that unless you feed raw you don't love your pets. That's all.

And cynthia you're right I could probably benefit from some good chewtoys when I read the forums here.

Bunblebeez,

Wellness is not affected by the recall. Some of their food is made by Menu foods, but it is not made in the facility that the problem food came from, it does not contain wheat or wheat gluten, they do not buy ingrediants from the Chinese exporter at issue, and the machines are cleaned before the Wellness food is made.

Here is a link that might be useful: Letter on Wellness website

Maybe I am just dense but...

Why wouldn't you just cook the chicken and/or beef you would feed your pet and avoid any possible health issues? What is the difference?

klimkm, cooked bones splinter easily and so are dangerous. I was surprised when I first read that, I would have thought that raw bones would be bad, but apparently not so.

I was in Trader Joes last night and some of their foods are made by Menu. They had a sign on the display that they had removed their foods even though their brand was not affected.

JanCarkner, This is a really nice FAQ on the subject of Raw -

http://www.njboxers.com/faqs.htm

Here is a link that might be useful: FAQ

For cats, if you cook meals and don't know a lot about nutrition, you could really do some damage. Cooking can remove taurine and cause serious issues for cats.

Also, along with qq's notes. I have no problem with the people discussing raw notes. I find it interesting in fact. My only issue was with being accused of not doing research, being judgemental, etc. I.e turning the discussion personal, instead of just discussing. So, if any raw food people think I'm jumping on them about raw food - I am absolutely not and I apologize for that.

QQ - Apology accepted, thank you. I really don't mean to imply that anyone that doesn't feed raw doesn't love their pets....I know every person here is abnormally mad for their pets :) I just get a little upset when *some* of the things that are stated about raw are not true from my experience and the experience of others.

I will freely admit that yes, I do not think that the majority of vets know a whole lot about animal nutrition. I won't go into why here....that's not important, and medically, they are excellent. So it all works out for me.

silvergold - excellent point, and definitely something to consider if anyone is thinking about switching to a cooked diet or a raw diet. You definitely have to do some studying so you do not end up with a 'natural diet' that actually harms your pet because it is unbalanced or lacks a particular nutrient.

The raw vs commercial diet will always be a hot topic. I wish there was a way that all of us could stop getting our panties in a knot over it ;)

klimkim - you are not dense at all. People that feed raw believe that pets are no different than any other animal on the planet, and that a raw diet is what they are made by nature to eat. We all might very well be whack jobs, but it works for us :)