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Pump out water from below ground pipe?

15 years ago

I need to install a connection to a 1" pvc pipe that is about 18" deep, and my problem is that I don't want the hole I dig to fill up with muddy water when I cut into the pipe. I would like to remove the standing water in the pipe first.

The pipe, from where I can turn off the flow, is about 100' feet long, which I estimate holds about 4 gallons of water. There is a threaded hose spigot at each end, and what I would like to do is connect some kind of inexpensive pump to one spigot and then open the other one to relieve the vacuum while I pump. I am considering using either a shop vac or an electric drill transfer pump, neither of which I own at present, so I want to be reasonably sure of success before I buy anything.

Both sound like they might work, but my main doubt is this: since the hose bib is about 36" higher than the pipe, will either the shop vac or the transfer drill be able to suck up the water from that height. I guess there will be water in the riser when I start, so the system will be more or less "primed", but if I lose the prime will either of the two pump methods be able to start by "sucking air"?

Comments (12)

  • 15 years ago

    Do you have poor drainage or a very high water table? If not, I'd let the water drain out of the pipe and soak into the ground.

  • 15 years ago

    Thanks. I could let it drain, I guess, although I'm in Northern California in the wet season now, and the four gallons of water in my 1' x 1' hole would take a while to go away. Also I am a little worried about getting mud into the water pipe if I do that, because once I cut into it the pipe would be under water for a while. This is part of my attempt to install my own water well pump for the well I had drilled and hook into my existing water line, and I'm trying to be clean and neat.

  • 15 years ago

    What's the whole setup here? Both existing and what you're trying to install.. I'm confused. This is the supply line for your house? Why are you connecting to the middle of it to install a pump?

  • 15 years ago

    Either of your ideas should work although I like the shopvac better. A compressor also should work to blow the water out

  • 15 years ago

    Perel: I presently have over-priced (moving towards $19/hcf) "city" water and I plan to stop the service. The line from the meter to the house is about 90', and there is also a teed lateral about halfway along the line and about 70' long which runs over to a hose bib at one side of the yard. The well happens to be about 20' from the end of that lateral (which is 1" pvc, like the main line) but is 110' from the house service entry. So I decided it would be easier to tap into the lateral than to run a new pipe all the way to the house. Probably about 50' longer run over all, but easier because it's already there. I'll probably abandon the hose bib and run new irrigation lines from the pump after I get the pump up and running.

    joed: Yeah, I'm leaning towards the shop vac because 1) they're MADE to suck air, and 2) the Amazon reviews I see for drill pumps sound like a lot of them are junk. But I wish someone could tell me if a shop vac would actually do what I want. A compressor sounds like the real tool of choice, but I've read that amateurs have to be really careful not to use too much force and damage the line.

    Thank you both.

  • 15 years ago

    "I presently have over-priced (moving towards $19/hcf) "city" water and I plan to stop the service."

    Best check with your AHJ.

    Many places will not allow you to go back to a well once water service has been installed.

  • 15 years ago

    Just want to point out that once you're on well water, you will sometimes have to deal with muddy water in the pipes, particularly when the pump is removed and replaced.

    Where I live, your plan would definitely be illegal.

  • 15 years ago

    What's AHJ?

    I said "city water" but actually I live in an unincorporated (not a city) area where we are "served" by a private water company. It used to be small and locally owned but was bought up by a large corporation, at which time the rates began to climb. I'm sure they would love to pass a law or ordinance that "will not allow [one] to go back to a well once water service has been installed", but so far that doesn't seem to be the case. My next door neighbors have always been on a well, and I am following the lead of two of my neighbors down the block who, three years ago, drilled wells and disconnected from the water company. One of them figures he has already paid for the changeover in money saved.

    But, to return to my question, what do you think about using a wet vac to suck water out of the line so I don't have a big sump of muddy water to deal with? Would it pull it from a 36" high riser?

  • 15 years ago

    That is unusual to be allowed to go back to private service. Will they allow you to keep your municipal sewer hookup without water service? If not you're looking at going back to septic and many areas won't issue a septic permit if you have municipal service available.

    That being said, since this is a supply line outside the house, a hot tap fitting would be preferable. That way you don't have to worry about cutting in to the pipe in the first place - you just put the saddle over it, bolt it on, and you're done. Unlike the flimsy little saddle valves that are used to install icemakers, these are heavy-duty - generally they're what the utility uses to connect from your meter to the water main.

    Here is a link that might be useful: PVC hot taps (one source of them)

  • 15 years ago

    Yes, I am keeping my sewer line, and it's hard see what interest the county would have in my not keeping it. What WOULD affect my ability to obtain a well permit is if there were any septic systems near where I had my well drilled; but fortunately there were not.

    Thanks for the hot tap link, but it appears that such taps always drop down somewhat in size. Since I want to go from 1" to 1", I think it would not be suitable.

  • 15 years ago

    It never ceases to amaze me as to the lengths some people will go to make a simple job complicated.

    As you already stated a 100ft length of 1" pipe contains approximately 4 gallon of water.

    1 Cubic foot of water slightly less than 8 gallons. In the time it will take you to drag your shop vac to the hole you could have dug out another 4 or 5 shovels full of dirt and let the water fall to the bottom of the hole below your point of contact.

    Having said that, before you begin this project you better check with your local authorities. As was stated above, in most areas where a public water system is available you may not drill a well, but even if you would be permitted to do so keep in mind that you will still be on the municipal sewer and sewer is not free. Generally the sewer tax is computed on the water consumption rate, but given that you would not have a monthly water consumption they would then have to estimate your sewage tax and you would have no way to dispute there estimates without a water consumption record.

  • 15 years ago

    You may be right about just digging a sump beneath where I am going to cut the pipe. A few shovelsfull isn't really that much, is it? In fact, I have an old hand operated bilge pump that would probably get most of the water out after the dirt settles a bit, and I need to excavate some room to work in anyway. Don't know why I didn't think of that. I guess 4 gallons sounded to me like more than the 2/3 cu. ft. it really is.

    I'm not sure how I'm being charged for sewer at present, but I don't think it's based on my water usage as reflected by my water meter readings. More likely it has to do with things like number of bedrooms, existence of a swimming pool, hot tub, and the like. I don't think gardening counts, because the water stays on the land. But thanks for the idea -- I'll look into it.

    I have to say, I'm a bit surprised at how cautionary many responses have been about the legal aspects of having one's own well. As I've tried to point out, many of the households in my neighborhood are presently on wells, and some have recently changed from "company" water to nature's. A number of the parcels are larger than my 1/2 acre, several people have horses, and one neighbor has a horse and a mule. As far as I know there is no problem keeping chickens or goats. And every once in a while, I hear what sounds like a gunshot or two and wonder what that is about. My wife and I were "allowed" by the county to design and build our own home 20 years ago, and she and I did the whole shebang, including plumbing and electric, while being visited frequently by our, sometimes intrusive but usually helpful, building inspector.