Are you tall or short? Are you younger or older? Do you use an oven once a week or everyday? Do you think you will hate the uc or be glad of the extra oven?
I am short, middle-aged and use my oven several times a week but not everyday. I have an uc in a 30" and a 27" that is set in a bank with a microwave above it. I use both comfortably but prefer my uc b/c it is not in a walkway.
You might consider the 24" or 27" Miele b/c they are shorter than most ovens on the market today. You can fit a drawer under both sizes.
I am planning on doing a uc in our renovation and it will be the Miele. For me it was about counter space and from day one I wanted a Miele.
hth

Yes, for sure I'd do it again, crouching to get a good look without opening the door as a tradeoff for generous counter space, bending at the waist to pull out a pan to baste (but I can see the back good once it's out). But my knees and back are all just fine, I'm not a big hobby baker, and since I don't exercise routinely I felt it was important to build in a little bending and stooping here and there to at least keep me from deteriorating. Not everyone feels that way.

I am going with a cook top and double ovens b/c I don't like to crouch to get things out of the oven (yes, one of the DOs will be lower but at least one will be at a decent height). I hated my range b/c of the oven.

I am also putting the MW in the pantry to free-up counter space.

Are you sure you will lose that much counter space with a DO? Do you dare let us see your layout so we can change all of your hard work and come up with a DO solution????

Thanks for feedback so far.

Owls, I'm of average height (5'4") and young(ish) ;-) . So, the not liking it isn't down to any physical limitation. And, I cook almost every evening, but more creatively and extensively at the weekend. I can see the benefits of having one: energy efficient, cooler in the summer, can bake and cook at the same time, would have a spare "just in case," but if I'm being really honest, I wouldn't say I need it. We're a family of 2 to 3, depending on the season, and I give small dinners, not blow-outs.

And, counter space is indeed important. (My layout is in revision mode, so I don't think it would be helpful to post it.)

I think I'm just feeling it would be an extravagance (budget has been stretched as it is), and would fall short of this image in my head of what a wall oven should be (eye level thing), as well as not being v. comfortable. I'm also weary of thinking it all through, which no doubt is having an impact ...

The Miele is a v. nice piece of kit, though.

i can't really comment but just wanted to let you know that i'm putting my turbo chef under counter. it was a "last minute" decision to include it in with my appliances. i REALLY don't care for the looks of the thing so it's going on the back wall of the island where no one will see it just walking through. since there's a bit of a learning curve with this oven i expect i'll be squatting quite a bit until i can get the hang of it. but as a designer i know i'm allowed to forgo form over function whenever i want. after all, it's my kitchen and my choice. i'll live with it, happily!

I went from wall oven to undercounter oven and much prefer it, for the increased counter space.

I'm 5'4 and youngish and have no problem with UC ovens. I like I can pull out the rack and pan and look down to see all what's going on in there. I also prefer the idea of having a heavy pan that I pull/heave up out of the oven onto the counter rather than having one high up, where I'd be sliding the pan out and then having to use my weak arms to try and get it to not drop down once I was supporting all the weight myself, if that makes sense.

Hmm.

kate, you say it was a last-minute decision. Does this mean it's not an "essential" component, but something you decided to add for its functionality nonetheless (if that makes sense)?

sara and donka, in the same vein, is this a secondary "inessential" oven for you, or one on which you rely (e.g., because you have large families, cook and bake all the time, etceteras)?

venice_2008: It's my only oven, unfortunately :(

Me too, my one and only. and, although there's only two of us, I make bread every other day, quite apart from dinner. So it's in regular use.

I also agree with earlier observations:
1. Bending and stretching can be good exercise (and I don't do any, except for gardening)
2. I find it much easier lifting up from the pulled-out rack, than lifting something down.

No way! UC ovens are even lower to the floor than a normal oven in a range. B/f you commit to one...go to a Kitchen Showroom or elsewhere where they have UC ovens and try them. Now, think about constantly having to lean over to peer in or to lift things out, up, & over.

If you mount a wall oven properly...no higher than hip or waist...it's at the perfect height for getting things out and there's not too much bending to look inside while monitoring whatever is in the oven.

It's all very well to piously say "...bending and stretching can be good exercise..." but in reality that particular type is not what you should be doing. Besides, it's a rare person who makes it into their 60s, 70s, or beyond who does not have some sort of knee or back problem. While certain exercises will help, these will not.

This came up several months ago and I mentioned to a PT the comments here that "bending/stooping/stretching" using an oven as being "good for you"...he rolled his eyes & shook his head. I don't remember now exactly what he said, but it was something to effect that if you're in good shape already AND you know how to bend/lift things w/your legs and not your back, then it shouldn't harm you...but don't use it to try to "get in shape" or to try to fix an existing problem...it'll just make it worse.

OK, you're 5'4"...is everyone who will be using the oven as short as you? You also say you're "youngish"...do you plan to stay in your current home when you're "not so youngish"?

We also toyed with the idea of an UC oven, until our KD told us to check them out before we committed....she didn't come out & say "no"...she said to check. So we did...just seeing the handle practically hit the floor was a rude awakening...then we when we bent down to peer in and to pretend to reach inside to check/baste/whatever and then to lift something up...that clinched it...no way! Note, though, that I'm 5'10" & my DH is 6'5"...but my 5'6" mom much prefers our wall ovens (at least the lower one) to her oven in a range...she's "not so youngish" but is in better shape than I am...(regular aerobics/stretching/strength exercises for the past 20+ years! I wish I had her dedication to exercise!)

In the end, it's up to you...but I suggest you find a place to check it out before spending the money on an oven.

I agree about checking it out first - My experience with the one I'd had in London, my sister's AEG, and certainly with the Bosch I now have is that the door is nothing like as low as you suggest.

In fact, I just measured my Bosch: the handle is 7" above the floor when it's fully opened flat. In practice, I don't generally need to open it as far as that anyway.

And for those of us with small kitchens (small by US standards - this is still the biggest kitchen I've ever had) there are compromises we have to make: mine was bending down, so that I could actually have some prep. space. YMMV.
In reality, how often do I cook on the bottom rack? Practically never. So, in practice, I'm not bending (in fact, I crouch) as far as you might think.

So, while I think the wall mounting is ideal in an ideal world - i.e. one with lots of space - I think if counter space is important to you, then having an undercounter oven isn't a big deal. (I'd also recommend the Bosch 500 for its knobs, which are easier to operate at that level, than touch controls)

On thinking about this further, it occurs to me that my mother's oven, in London, is a regular stove with a side opening door. The bottom shelf of her oven is actually lower than mine.

This is why this forum is so great: you can really get a range of other people's experiences, and decide what's important for your needs!

Ya. I like it. I'm short (5'3") and to be honest, the pre-remodel oven which was at "normal" height in the wall was too high for me. It was harder to pull heavy things out of it with my arms raised, than to pull heavy things out of the UC oven while bending.

I decided to put my oven UC to get more counter space. If I hadn't needed the counterspace, I'd have done a double oven in the wall but low so that the bottom one was at the same level my UC oven is now.

I do bake regularly, so I'd say I use my oven, on average, 2 - 4 times a week. I have put fairly heavy things in my oven with no problems going in or out. Kitchen was completed in Nov 04 so I've had a few years to work with it this way. Works great for me!

We are getting the GE Monogram with the glide racks and putting it under an induction cooktop. The full extension racks will make it easier to reach things and baste them. I'm shortish and oldish but I think I'll be able to handle the bending and lifting for a while yet. Also, if I remember correctly, a lot of ADA material says that if someone in a wheelchair needs to use an oven that the undercounter placement is better than a higher wall mount. I'm saying my prayers that I'll never need to use a wheelchair but you never know what the future holds. My main consideration in the undercounter placement, however, was that because I am short any wall oven more than a few inches above standard counter height has the hot oven door hitting me in the armpits. I also agree with the poster who said they find it easier to control lifting up than lifting down for a hot and heavy pan.

Regarding not building in exercise, there's a whole new medical discipline called Physical Medicine. A very large percentage of their patients are crippled primarily from deconditioning. Weakened muscles from lack of exercise is a very frequent cause of bad backs. I had one, was put on an exercise regimen by an orthopedist, and now I don't. Another way-too-common problem so many of their patients have is deconditioning combined with excess weight--a prime cause of bad knees.

I got some specifically negative feedback the last time I brought this up, too, but the whole ergonomics of kitchen design, not just convenience, is an extremely valid subject for this forum. The issue isn't whether exercise should be built in but whether our personal preferences are to exempt or include the kitchen from this necessity.

BTW, like Sara, I find lifting up to the counter much easier, and safer, than sliding a pan out above my waist and carrying it to wherever I'm going to be dealing with it next.

Check out this new GE wall oven.

It takes up the space of a single oven . . . but it is actually two smaller ovens in one. It is pricey but I "gotta have it" in my new kitchen. I think having the large oven in my DCS range, plus these two smaller ovens will be ideal!! Plus, the doors are each smaller than a full size oven door and won't be a problem opening into the work aisle, etc. IMO this baby under the counter will be handy and not inconvenient.

I thought it would be helpful to also post this description from GE:

GE Profile Built-In Single-Double Wall Oven
Now, you can double your cooking pleasure without sacrificing valuable kitchen space.

Whether preparing for dinner parities, holidays or everyday meals, you'll enjoy the ability to cook multiple dishes at different temperatures all at once in this wall oven. And, our advanced baking technology like the exclusive PreciseAir convection system in the lower oven and our dual element bake ensure evenly browned, baked and broiled foods for great-tasting meals.
Other Features:

Accommodates a 22-pound turkey in the lower oven (two ovens provide a spacious combined 5.0 cubic feet).
Preheats in less than 8 minutes.
Comes with multiple cook modes, including pizza mode, slow cook mode and delayed baking options.
Includes two self-cleaning ovens.

venice 2008, I think you might really be asking if it is okay to have the luxury of a second oven? I'm a cooktop gal through and through so I'm leaning toward one uc Miele oven. Now I'm wondering if I should go with a 36" cooktop even though for 6-8 months I've been thinking 30" is plenty. I think we are both having difficulty with feeling self indulgent when so much $$$ is already being spend on the whole kitchen.
It seems that you are justified with wanting that second oven based on your usage. You seem to have thought it through. If the budget allows it then go check out how the uc oven feels in the showroom. I do think height of the primary user should be taken into consideration. I have considered and used many of Buehl's ideas in my planning (and re-planning) but I am 10" shorter than she is so we will not be comfortable with the same placement of appliances.

venice:

well, when i say "last minute" i mean i thought of it AFTER i fell in love with my layout. i believe the turbo chef will get a lot of regular use as we have two small children who are into immediate gratification. it was researched and even tested at an appliance store before i committed. essential? maybe. as essential as any other piece of kitchen equipment.

as for problems/injuries due to bending: it's not like it's going to be a regular, repetitive motion. open the door take the pan out. i think the chance of injury from a set of steps is greater. i'll take my chances.

I don't have an undercounter oven, but I do have a range with multiple ovens after years with double wall ovens. The main oven is very low to the ground. I'm 5'11", and this has not been a problem for me at all. There are other things I don't like about my ovens, but the height has never entered my mind as an issue.

I woke up this morning resolving to put the oven on ice, and be happy for the extra storage instead, congratulating myself as I did so for saving those few thousand dollars. And then I read the follow-up posts! Thanks to everyone for thoroughly throwing my resolve into disarray! :-)

For me, owls hits it on the head. I am feeling like this is a luxury, and there is a guilt blanket that seems to want to wrap itself around me, esp. b/c it's not my only oven, as it is for kate and sara.

DH, to his credit, says we can do it if I want to do it, but it's precisely b/c he is so accommodating that I feel I need to be even more level-headed about budget (another topic entirely) -- he pretty much says I can have whatever I want, but of course I want all the lovely things that cost more than the not-as-lovely things, and boy, we could really get into trouble there if I ran away with that thought ... So, I watch budget carefully and make sure I can justify the decisions.

I'll take the advice of checking one out first, but I don't think bending over will cause me strain; nor do I think it a fitness benefit, as I exercise regularly. Being not-youngish is a few decades away yet, and I don't expect to be in this house then. If we are, it'll be time for another reno.

owls, your thought re. 36" v. 30" -- I love those "extra" (but essential!) 6". I do much (if not most) of my cooking on the range top, and I frequently have all six burners going, even if it's just a dinner for two! And, when I don't, there's more room for my big pots and pans. It never feels crowded. Love it.

One thought that occurs to me that could help both budget and space is that I could shrink the 36" fridge to 30", and apply savings gained there toward the UC oven (why is Miele so pricey?). But, that brings up a whole other question of if a 30" fridge is enough ...

Just to throw my 2 cents in.... I'm going with a wall oven installed U/C and at 5' tall don't think it'll be a problem. Now... which oven to decided on is another problem...!

If an additional oven isn't a necessity, why not put a warming drawer with another ordinary storage drawer beneath it, instead of the extra oven. You'd gain additional storage, and you'd have a useful appliance for warming plates or bread, and for keeping foods hot as you're finishing with preparing a meal. I used to struggle to get everything finished cooking at just the same time. Now I can relax a bit. If something is done cooking a few minutes before the other dishes, I can just stick it in the warming drawer and it will remain hot, without over cooking.

I use my warming drawer constantly for heating plates and bowls, warming bread, proofing dough, and as a warm place for resting roasted meats after they come out of the oven. It's also great for warming things like fruit pies that I'll be serving after dinner. I just put the dessert in the drawer as we sit down for the meal. By the time we're ready for dessert, it's all warmed up.

actually, the turbo chef is not my only oven. i wanted it because it offers speed cook technology so i got it to compliment my 48" range (so it's actually a third oven).

Just wanted to give an update on the decision: decided to use the space for more drawers instead of an UC wall oven. Reading these responses was helpful in coming to that decision, if for no other reason that it helped me see what a good many options I had. So, listed and weighted pros and cons (not having it at eye level really was a big one for me, b/c I've always thought that was such a great feature of them), tallied them and took a decision. Surprisingly easy in the end.

I'm excited about the extra storage, as it solves some problems for me. And, best of all, I was able to call the KD and confirm final layout ... so, one more set of drawings, and then it's done -- in and booked!

Part of the decision not to get a wall oven was down to realizing that it would take me a couple of weeks to do the research on options and check out some in person. The thought of yet another delay was not appetizing. Sometimes, one just needs to let go and make it happen ...

Thanks to all for your thoughtful responses.