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PEX installation questions

19 years ago

Hi,

This is my first time posting here, so go easy on me! :-)

My home was built in 1974 and uses galvanized pipe throughout. We recently (last weekend) had a pipe burst inside the wall behind a bathroom lavatory. I had been planning to replace the existing galvanized with PEX anyway, so now I guess it's time to actually do something about it.

I have a couple of questions that I hope someone can address for me. First, let me describe my home's plumbing configuration: My main line (3/4" galv) comes in at one end of the house (by the bathrooms), and the water heater (W/H) is on the other end (by the washing machine). The main shutoff valve is under the house in the crawl space, where the main line comes in, and is easily accessible (just open the door, drop down into the crawl space and it's right there).

The 3/4" main line T's off to a 3/4" line that goes to the W/H, and a 1/2" line that supplies the cold side of the baths/sinks/toilets in the bathrooms (nearby). The kitchen sink is supplied by the 3/4" line (via a T to 1/2") before it gets to the W/H. Thus, water for the hot fixtures in the baths travels the entire length of the house (twice!), while cold runs only about 15 feet. All fixtures are supplied by 1/2" lines.

First question: I would like to install a PEX manifold (3/4" PEX inlet, 1/2" PEX outlets) with individual shutoffs. Given the configuration of my home, where should I locate the manifold? It seems to me that I only have two choices (because the manifold has to be accessible, right?): 1) by the main shutoff valve, or 2) by the W/H. If I put the manifold by the main shutoff valve, the *hot* water would have to travel from the W/H all the way back to the manifold, then to the individual fixtures, some of which are back by the W/H (washing machine, kitchen, D/W). On the other hand, if I put the manifold by the W/H, then the *cold* water has to travel all the way to the manifold and then via individual lines back to the far side of the house for the bathrooms.

Or, perhaps a manifold isn't the right thing to do in my case. What would be your recommendation?

Second question: What about pipe size? It is my understanding that PEX can/should be smaller than copper (due to water velocity and erosion issues), but I don't know if that same rule also applies to PEX vs. galvanized. It is obvious that the ID of PEX is smaller than the ID of gavlanized. Is it reasonable to replace 3/4" galvanized with 3/4" PEX to the W/H and the manifold, and then to use 1/2" PEX from the manifold to all of the fixtures?

Third question: To fix the broken pipe in the wall, I just cut it out of the loop and put in a couple of *temporary* 1/2" PEX lines using push-on type PEX connectors and drop ears. They were kind of spendy (about $7/ea at Lowe's), but seemed a little on the "cheap" side quality-wise. I do own a crimping tool for 3/4" and 1/2" compression-type rings (*not* SSC) and a crimp ring removal tool, which I had planned to use, but getting metal (brass) PEX connectors is nearly impossible through the local Home Depot or Lowe's (special order only). Though the cost of the plastic push-on connectors seems a little on the high side, they were easy to install and have shown no signs of leakage. However, it looks like I can get BESTPEX brass connectors and fittings (and manifolds) through PexConnection.com at pretty reasonable prices (though I am not sure if their prices are any better or worse than anyone else's). Would it be smarter to use the crimp-type connections (dependability) or the push-on (ease of installation/removal)?

I hope I have explained my issues and questions clearly. If not, please ask for clarification.

I will appreciate any and all help.

Thanks in advance,

Dennis

Comments (5)

  • 19 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    There is no reason you have to locate the cold manifold next to the hot manifold. They are not physically connected so can be located however you like. I do recommend a manifold system - it's nice to have one place to look for shutoffs.

    You can use 3/4 PEX for the line to the manifold and then 1/2 or even 3/8 to the fixtures, depending upon water requirements and distance to the fixtures.

    Best to use the crimp type in walls. Did you ask about the rings at HD? My local HD has them, but they are well hidden.

  • 19 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    The manifolds I have seen are combo units (hot and cold together in a dual manifold). I suppose I could use separate units, but then if I want to turn off all water to one bathroom, I have to do it in two different places. Not a big deal, but not very convenient either. And the next owner of my home will probably think to himself, "what were they thinking?" (something I have often muttered to myself when I see how the previous owner did things).

    No, I didn't actually ask about PEX fittings at Home Depot -- I suppose I could. Our local Lowe's is definitely special order only for PEX, and I don't go to HD much anymore because it's more crowded and more expensive than Lowe's (and since they are right next door to one another, it's just as easy to go to one versus the other!).

    Another question came to mind after my initial post: should I have separate home-runs for every fixture (sink, bath, toilet), or one home-run per location (bathroom, kitchen)?

    - Dennis

  • 19 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    In that case I would place both hot and cold near the hot water heater. It is more accessible there. The manifolds I have can be installed together or separately and have 5 stations each. I actually have manifolds at each end of my house because, like yours, it is a long way from one end to the other. It made the installation considerably less expensive. I have a utility room on each end of the house though. I would not install a manifold in a crawl space.

    Generally, a separate line (or set of hot/ cold lines) is run to each fixture. It is a much cleaner install this way with fittings at the manifold and fixture only, no fittings required in walls or other inconvenient places.

  • 19 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Thank you, that makes perfect sense.

    So when I install the manifold, it will be in the garage with the water heater. But just because it's in the garage, I don't think I want a mass of hoses (10 cold, 7 hot) to be visible. How are manifolds typically installed...inside a wall with a service panel to provide access?

    I'm assuming I will have to tear out sheetrock anyway, drill holes through a sill plate (not concrete, I hope!), and fish the hoses down into the crawl space to feed the rest of the house. So a new section of sheetrock in the garage is probably going to be necessary one way or the other.

    How about the question of pipe size? I currently have 3/4" galv. for the main and 1/2" galv. to all of the fixtures. Is it reasonable to replace galvanized with same-sized PEX? Or will that result in a pressure loss? (strangely, a 1/2" PEX pipe will almost fit *inside* a 1/2" galvanized pipe!) I understand there are fewer couplings, elbows, T's, etc. with PEX, but is that enough to compensate for its smaller diameter? Perhaps it is enough, and maybe it's even necessary in order to increase the flow rate, but it's very hard to find good information on this topic, so I'm questioning everything!

    Thanks again,

    - Dennis

  • 19 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    You can replace galvanized with same size PEX. Even though the PEX internal diameter is smaller, it is also much smoother and doesn't have elbows like the galvanized, so the pressure drop due to friction will be much smaller. It's like the difference between running your hand over teflon and running your hand over sandpaper. Which one will be smoother and faster? In addition, each elbow (and there are lots of them in a galvanized piping system) adds the same pressure drop as 5 - 20 ft of pipe, depending upon flow rate and pipe size.

    Generally the manifolds are installed on the wall surface, not recessed into the wall. Installation in the wall may not be code(but I'm not certain). A shallow cabinet to cover it would work though.