Buster update and training question

20 years ago

Hiya,

Buster (2 year old newly adopted heeler mix) is doing much better and much less likely to try to herd Sparky (old creaky feeble baby). We have pretty much avoided having them outside together without us. Inside there's pretty good behavior except when they each want the other's toy. When we're outside, we watch them closely. I'm working on making Buster look at me often, by giving him the marker word ("Yes!") whenever he happens to glance my way, and giving him treats often. Also, when we're out for a walk with both of them, we get between Sparky and Buster if Buster gets too "herdy", and hand him a stick as a diversion. (Now I walk with a handful of sticks.)

Buster is also getting obedience training, which seems to be working fine (with the exception of him getting too excited in class, but that's another post).

So Buster gets a lot of treats, because I'm working on positive training instead of punishment. And so we also give Sparky treats for breathing very nicely. Today, two things happened. 1) Both dogs were bugging me for treats constantly even though I wasn't deliberately doing any training. Buster kept sitting down in front of me - "Lookit! I'm sitting! Don't I get a treat?". And Sparky kept poking at my hand for treats. 2) I took Buster for a walk, a time when I typically have been doing lots of recalling him, getting him to sit, etc. He started nipping lightly at my right hand - the treat hand. I yelped to let him know it was not OK and turned away.

So here are my questions: What am I doing wrong that makes Buster think he can get a treat for sitting when I'm not telling him to? How can I make him get that I decide when he gets treats, without screwing up the training I'm trying for? And did I do the right thing in yelping and turning away? We can't have that nipping at the hand nonsense.

Thanks!

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Comments (6)

chelone
20 years ago
You're not doing ANYTHING wrong! Our instructor described it this way: dogs have a "Rolodex", they flip through it whenever they think it will bring a reward. If you didn't ask then to do anything, a quick, loving look in the eyes, a "good boy!", and a pat is all that's required. Your dog wants affirmation more than he wants a treat! Really.

The fact that Buster is coming to you and sitting in front of you is AWESOME. I know my Rex still has his radar set on distant objects, he is always going to be a "tough sell". I'm jealous of the ease with which your dog has adopted the "you" focus. But I'm delighted for you!

I can't tell you how nice it is to read about someone who really WANTS to have an obedient dog. I wish you lived nearer to me!

Keep up the great work.
mollyavalon
Original Author
20 years ago
Thanks for the encouragement. I would think everyone would want an obedient dog, and I'm surprised by my friends with unruly dogs. I've asked a couple of them "Have you done any obedience training with Bozo?" and they say "No, I've never thought about it before." One friend's dog has pretty much destroyed their house, and hauls them down the street on the leash routinely. Seems rather unpleasant to me.
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girlwithaspirin
20 years ago
I agree with chelone (as always). You're doing everything right. What Buster's doing is most likely temporary. When I'm first training a behavior, I love to see my dog offering it without being asked. It means she's figured out what gets her the goods. Of course, it also means she'll offer it up at every opportunity. So I praise her like mad, but I only reward when I ask for the behavior.

Soon, you should transition to intermittent rewards -- rotate between praise and treats for the requested behavior. It keeps them on their toes and working harder. Think of it as a slot machine. They keep trying and trying, sitting faster and staying longer, knowing they've gotta hit the jackpot soon.
chelone
20 years ago
I adore my boss. But she has never once tried to do any obedience work with her two dogs. She's big on "tricks", but neither of the dogs LISTEN. They automatically go through their "rolodex" until she gives them the food reward. She wants me to be impressed, but I'm NOT.

I brought Rex into the shop one day when I needed to collect my paycheck on a day off. Her dogs were there and went totally mental. So did Rex. Until I corrected him and gave him a command to, "Down". He grumbled a bit but complied and was rewarded with a smile, "good boy", and a follow up... "Stay!". He did all of that with two little dogs racing around him, yapping incessantly. And he maintained the "down/stay", looking nervously at me often. Every time he looked at me I was looking at HIM, smiled, and mouthed, "good boy!".

My boss was ultimately unable to control her dogs and told me to take Rex outside. He obediently did as he was bade, while she frantically tried to hustle her dogs into the bathroom.

To this day she advocates the Invisible Fence as a "godsend". I don't deny it is a great invention. But no device will ever be the substitute for your TIME, LOVE, PATIENCE. That's the very essence of "obedience" work. You're building a bond of trust, love, and understanding. It's "salesmanship"... convincing your canine companion that YOUR way is more fun, that's all.

Keep up the great work. You will be the envy of your friends in no tme flat and then you'll do what GWA, Mazer, and I do... encourage obedience work.

Who's the other advocate of obedience work... I can't ever remember the "handle", but the advice is awesome and the humor great. Shroppie?
mazer415
20 years ago
God I have to laugh. You are doing great, your dogs are smart and dogs are opportunists, which is why they get to live in homes bugging mommie for treats while their wild cousins have to stay outside and hunt grasshoppers!!! Pat your dog on the head, say good sit and walk away. You can start reducing the treats now. Every other time they sit or stay or whatever they get a treat....oh boy...yep, smart dogs now training mom....
jenme
20 years ago
I'm a dog trainer and you're doing fine. I like to use a command called "all gone" and show my dog empty hands when they are begging too much for food or treats. It works great. Just hold out your empty hands in front of you and say "all gone". Just make sure you NEVER break the truth of the statement not even once. You can say "all gone" and then give them a treat a minute later. After they learned the command I use it also when they are barking too much at the imaginary things that dogs bark at. I never do it when someone is actually outside on the property then I tell them to go kennel and they go lay down, unless it's a pesky door to door salesman! Then it's bark away!