Building a pool or rather dealing with my PB was one of the most infuriating experiences I have ever had. Welcome to the club. I didnt use valium. margaritas help though. One day every few weeks is what we got. never on the day they promised either. They seemed to be able to magically sense each time I was ready to call my lawyer and showed up.

I feel your pain and good luck.

Is he a hands on PB?

Tell him you plan on following him to his other job sites to talk with his other customers of his progress on their pools.

poolio- You're so right! Margaritas DO help! The only problem is that we usually want to go outside on the patio with our drinks - and then we're sitting there just STARING at the big empty pool. I so wish I knew how to finish it myself! I've been contemplating doing the work, believe me! How long (dare I ask) did it take to complete your pool?

z1700 - Hi. That's an excellent suggestion, however, he's definitely not a hands-on guy. We've only seen him a couple of times in the last ten months. The only time he makes a special trip out is to collect the money, though several times he's sent his wife. He usually calls us and wants to know what needs to be done on the pool. He's absolutely clueless about the work going on out here. The guys working on it always ask us the questions. I have to go down to the ROC tomorrow, I could ask to see the files of the other 2 complaintants (their cases have since been resolved). I think they're public record. Maybe I could contact them. Thanks for the advice!

Birdbath and poolio...I am SO there with ya! I've never seen such a lack of work ethic in all my life! I'm getting ready to start my 6th month and my pool is just a basic no frills inground vinyl. Nothing NEAR the magnatude that you are building birdbath! I finally called a lawyer and talked with him. He said to put everything in writing in a letter (sent certified AND regular mail) to the PB giving him 30 days to finish or you will find someone else to finish it for him and he will have to pay the difference in cost. It sounded to me like this was pretty much the norm in this situation. Since I had already threatened him to have it done by 4/1 I haven't mailed that letter yet in hopes that he will actually do it. Amazingly enough, the liner was dropped today! Have you tried getting ugly about it?? I'm learning that apparently they don't understand anything else. It's kind of like the squeeky wheel is the one that gets the oil! Good luck!

This is such a tough spot to be in! It'll probably cost you more to finish it up than what you owe the PB, but it might be worth it not to sprout more grey hairs and/ or shave years off your life! You probably would forfeit any warranty work, but then again I doubt you would ever get this PB out there for warranty work anyway. One thing is for sure, no matter how much he begs/ pleads/ yells do not give him any more money unless he is 100% finished! If you do decide to dump the PB, you might make one last effort. Write them a letter telling them that they must finish on "X" date or they can consider themselves fired. You might also mention that you will file a complaint with the BBB afterwards. Who knows, maybe they will be "inspired" to jump on it and finish it up. Sorry you have to go through this!

midtgal - So sorry to hear you're having problems too. The fact that they put the liner in today is very hopeful! I'm not sure how much you have left on the pool to do, but maybe they really will finish in time. I never thought about a certified letter, that just might work. I DID send an email to him tonight and told him that this was just not working out for us. We need our yard - we've all tripped and fallen in the trenches (including my mom last night). Not only is it exasperating to wait so long, it is just downright dangerous to have these open trenches and an empty pool right off our patio. I'm afraid someone is going to really get hurt. I told the PB that we needed his plan and schedule for the pool, that we were pursuing an administrative hearing with the ROC, and that we would really prefer to work this out with him and come up with an agreeable solution. He does need to live up to his end of the contract on this pool, as we have lived up to ours. We also offered our assistance, such as filling in trenches, etc. My husband tried to call him tonight. No answer. All we want is for the guy to finish. That's it.

tresw- Good point about the warranty. You're probably also correct in that this guy won't show up if we ever do have a problem. He's not showing up now, so it's doubtful he'd show up then. I don't want to give him any more money up front, but our contract says that 4000.00 is to be paid after this rock/tile phase is done, and then the remaining balance on the day of Pebblesheen. Of course, that contract is technically invalid, as it also states that he'd be done with the pool by now! Maybe we should tell him no more money until the day of Pebblesheen. If he refuses to do anything, then we can get someone else to finish. Man, I hate this stuff. The BBB is a good idea, too - we haven't filed anything with them. We run our own business, and it's unthinkable that we would treat a customer like this.

birdbath, that's exactly what I've been saying as well. I also run a business and if I ran mine this way I wouldn't be around long. It's amazing isn't it that they DO get away with it?? I will be going to the BBB when he gets done, you should too! Someone needs to stand up to these people and let them know it's not OK to do this.

Track down the workers. Since the PB doesn't know what is going on, maybe the workers do? Find them and work directly with them and not the PB. Offer an incentive to the workers directly.

Are you sure his subs are being paid? Have you gotten proof for the work completed thus far?

Word of mouth is the best form of advertising. Hopefully your PB is getting what he paid for.

I'm so sorry you're having these problems. It sounds like he's really taking advantage of how patient you've been. It may be time to get ugly. I've noticed on several posts that people are having to pay for everything before the pool is complete. Our contract states that the last 10% be paid once the pool is COMPLETE TO OUR SATISFACTION. We didn't ask for that clause, it's just standard for our PB.

Ok, so we got a reply from our PB this morning by email. He said if we proceed on with the ROC, then he will cease all work on our pool and we won't be swimming for months. He said it will take the ROC that long to resolve it and that he is angry we are threatening him with the ROC. He also said that it's been four months since we gave him money (this is the really crazy part - according to the contract no money is due until this particular phase is done. They started this rock and tile work back in December and they're still working on it!). We have ALWAYS paid immediately whenever the next payment is due. Our PB right now wants us to go ahead and give him the next payment for the plumbing equipment. He said that he will install it so we can fill in our trenches and do the patio. Then, he will go back and finish this phase. He also said we obviously don't trust him enough to give him that payment, so we are the ones holding him up. Why would we agree to advance him the next payment when this phase isn't even done? I can't believe this guy - he is blaming us for the slowness of the pool. He said by finishing the rocks/grouting first WE are slowing down getting the pebblesheen done, not him. Why in the world would they pebblesheen without the rest being completed? His own contract states the steps of the work - we haven't dictated it to him. We are only asking that he complete this phase before the payment for the next phase. He stated that he has never walked off a job in his life, and he wants to finish our pool - but that we need to trust him. Sorry I'm rambling, but what in the world are we supposed to do? We've been trying to reach him by phone, but he won't answer. Our deadline with the ROC is today to file for a hearing - if we proceed now, the PB says he'll stop all work. It's only 8 in the morning, and I'm thinking that a margarita sounds good. Good grief.

Not sure of the price differences in your area vs. Calif where I live but based on what's left, $8K is far short of the cost of what's left to do based on equipment cost and pebbletec install alone! If he's asking for the final payment before the work is complete (and in violation of your signed contract with him), it could be that he's short cash or his credit with his subs has been revoked due to non payment. If you pay him all thats due, you potentially risk losing that money and will have zero leverage to get the work finished. I'd contact a lawyer to best understand your options and would also promptly contact the subs that have completed worked on your pool to see if they have been paid by the pool builder yet and whether they have provided a release of lien. If they haven't been paid by your builder, you may risk a mechanic's lien (this applies in Calif and some other states in the US) and you could wind up having to pay the subs directly (even though you already paid the builder for their work) or have a lien placed on your property deed.

First off, it is good that you now have this e-mail as it will be proof that he is not living up to his own contract if he is writing something that is different than what has been signed.

I would respond back that you would like a sit down meeting ASAP before making your decision today in going to the ROC. Either way I would not issue him any more money.

I'm not a pool builder, but am a commercial general contractor and knowing what my pool costs and understanding work remaining vs. labor, etc. I don't think 8k will cover the completion from where you are sitting now.

That sounds like blackmail to me. What a horrible position he's put you in.

Boy howdy! He has got MY hackles up!! :) A professional business person does *not* threaten their customers...PERIOD! If this were me, he'd be done! I would absolutely proceeed with the ROC AND contact a lawyer. Like I told you before, a lawyer can MAKE him either get it done pronto or make him pay the difference to get it done by someone else. Under NO circumstances would I pay him another dime! Good grief is right. Who does this man think he is??? As I was told by others, WE are the ones with the rights...not them! Good luck and keep us posted!

Wow. It's interesting that he goes out of his way to tell you how everything is your fault. He drags out the construction and then complains that you haven't paid in months? That takes some big cajones!! At this point I wouldn't pay for ANYTHING in advance. He says you have to trust him, but why should you? He certainly hasn't earned your trust and trust is something you earn, it's not given out of charity. I'm not sure if there is a way to escrow the funds, but perhaps you can have a 3rd party hold the funds with the agreement that he gets paid AFTER he does the work. For example, you give the equipment funds to the 3rd party and after he completes the equipment installation then the funds will get released to him. Then maybe he'll have an incentive to get the work done quickly instead of dragging that out for several more months. I don't understand why you don't have equipment yet, usually it's installed when the plumbing is installed. I also don't understand why the trenches are still open, the piping can be pressure tested even if the equipment is not in yet. The bottom line is he is in breach of contract by not meeting the agreed-to date and he will not provide you with a new date. I'd definitely proceed with filing for the ROC hearing, he needs to know you're serious and won't be scared by his threats. I agree with the others that it may be time to contact a lawyer as well. Even though you've paid him, that doesn't mean he has paid his subs. As was mentioned above you could find yourself getting a lien attached to your house, or getting sued by a sub. Better to get a lawyer now and start protecting yourself then wait until it's too late! Best wishes, hopefully it'll all work out in the end. I suspect that the PB will shape up after he sees how serious you are about this.

I just can't believe this guy! It is outrageous. He seems to be VERY short sighted, you are going to have a gorgeous very custom pool that you would think he would want on his "resume" and be able to point to when attracting other customers!

Is there anyway you can take him to small claims court? In CA there is a $5000 limit but if you won that, plus your $8K, you might be closer to what you need to finish the pool?

Ugghhh, this should be such a wonderful project for you and your family and this jerk is turning it into a nightmare. I sure hope there is such a thing as karma.

Birdbath, I had the exact same experience from our building contractor. He kept wanting more and more money and kept falling further behind schedule. Once he realized that there was more work left than money owed to him, he walked off the job and then accused us of slowing his progress. He also sent us a letter saying that it was costing him $50k more than he budgeted and that he would be able to fit us back in his schedule if we paid him the additional monies.

What we ended up doing was 'firing' him due to breach of contract. We then hired subs to come in and finish the work that the contractor did not do as well as things he did horribly. Essentially, we paid twice for things that were never done or done so bad that they had to be fixed. To make a long story short, we are in the process of suing the guy to recoup actual damages, compensatory damages, etc.

Its a hard pill to swallow, but I would contact your attorney immediately to apprise him of the situation. And like others, do NOT give the guy a dime or sign any addendum to the contract. Chances are, the pool contractor wants to play hard ball and the contract is what is deemed a 'builder's' contract in that essentially it is written for his benefit. Firing, hiring your own subs, and going after the guy for damages is probably the best and fastest way to get your pool done.

Quote: "He also sent us a letter saying that it was costing him $50k more than he budgeted and that he would be able to fit us back in his schedule if we paid him the additional monies."

I am absolutely astonished at what some of these pool builders think they can get away with. It also amazes me how some previously good builders with solid reputations end up resorting to tactics like this. If these stories got more press about half of us probably wouldn't even have bothered getting pools! It's scary to think of going through what you guys have.

Some of these pool builders think they can get away with this kind of stuff because they CAN get away with this kind of stuff.

The guy who put my pool in has ripped off dozens of people, literally taken deposits over a year ago and has had no further contact, and is still in business. He's changed the name of his business about 6 times, is being investigated by the NJ state attorney general and is still allowed to sell and install pools. How is this possible?

Oh, and he's done all this while on probation for theft. It's really hard to protect yourself against this type of con artist.

tlbb

Birdbath, I'm sorry for the bad turn of events in your pool build. Mine took months longer than expected so can understand your frustration.

First, everyone here is right. Do not give them another cent. Very important. You'd completely loose any leverage you have with this guy.

Second, I would sit down and type out each and every breach in the contact he has made and number them and provide dates. Specifically spell out his missed deadlines.

Then remind him it's been four months since your last payment because he's four months behind on the job.
...and he's not going to get another cent until he performs.

Don't let him place this guilt trip on you.

I see you quote: "but our contract says that 4000.00 is to be paid after this rock/tile phase is done, and then the remaining balance on the day of Pebblesheen."

But, is there anything in the contract that specifies a payment at the time of the plumbing equipment?

What is your entire payment term schedule?

He's trying to hold you hostage because he thinks that you're desperate to get your pool done (I felt that way at times too) and that you'll cave in just to get it completed. Don't let him wear you down.

Tell him if he ceases work on your pool that you consider him "fired" and you'll be finishing the pool yourself and he will hear from your attorney.

Take control back - don't be blackmailed. You'll feel much better.

Good luck, I'm sure we will all be following your story closely - because you're are going to have a spectacular pool.

I compared it to having a baby. It took 9 months, hurt like heck, but after it was done was worth the pain, and all the frustrations have been eased away by enjoying our beautiful new pool.

:)

THANK YOU for all of your replies! You have no idea how much it has helped. We did talk to the pool builder and explained again that we wanted to work it out. They believe they can get this phase done with one more day's work and then move on. Our pool contract addendum states that we will pay him 5% after completion of this phase, and then the remaining (and final) 5% before pebblesheen. Our PB told us that we could either - A. Pay him the 5% immediately and get two days of work from him in a row, or....B. Pay him after he finishes this phase (as the contract states) and he won't be able to schedule us again for two weeks. He said it would be unfair to his other customers to be at our place two days in a row. He also blamed us for the four month process - saying that I hadn't chosen the grout color in a timely manner. Unbelievable. He is obviously looking for any excuse at this point. To top it all off, the stacked stone steps to the spa he built on Wednesday have been falling off. It seems that they mortared the vertical walls to DIRT, I'm no mason, but I do know that grout, cement, etc. doesn't stick to dirt. I'll post pictures tomorrow morning.
I had called the ROC immediately after our PB had told us that if we pursued an ROC hearing, he would abandon working on our pool. The ROC told us that if our PB did that, it would be seen as retaliation against us for trying to protect our rights, and would NOT be in the interest of the PB. It is a direct violation of the statutes. At least our PB was kind enough to threaten this in an email, easy proof for later. The ROC also told us to forget paying this guy another penny (as all of you have suggested) until the final inspection is complete. Our payment schedule has been way out of line from the norm - we had paid him way too much up front before finding out from the ROC what the payment schedule should be. So, we are sending the PB an email in the morning to let him know we expect him to finish this pool. After final inspection, before Pebblesheen, we will give him the remaining 10%. If he wishes to stop work on the pool, we will consider it job abandonment and take it up with Administrative Judge at the ROC.
What a friggin bummer. I absolutely hate that it's come to this, but we are just so tired of being brow-beat from this guy! If he does stop work on our pool, so be it. We tried to make the best of it tonight, telling each other that we will just focus on the BBQ kitchen, get some other outside bids, and enjoy other things. What's another couple of months to wait when we've already waited so long? It will all turn out OK. It is, after all, just a pool. THANK YOU AGAIN for all of your terrific advice. I might just be posting pictures of my kids or something for awhile since we won't have any pool pictures :). But someday soon, we will have water!

Birdbath,
I believe that in one of your other posts you had mentioned that your PB had lost most of his help (from not paying them is my guess)and it sounds like the work quality of his remaining employees is also suffering (stacked stone mortered to dirt!!!)...my guess is that even if you continue longer with your PB that there will be some items that he will never finish and you will have to hire subs to complete...you have been more than patient with your PB but it sound like you have just came across one of those bad people in life...good luck on your build and if you give him the boot make sure he doesn't take any materials from your site (stone,equiptment?)if you can legally keep them.

I had some problems getting my pool builder to finish the work, although not as bad as your situation sounds. After I made the final payment, the effort they put forth practically disappeared. Eight months later, I finally got them to finish, including some reimbursed money for my water bill in having to drain and refill the pool twice to fix their mistakes. Some great advice on these posts, but some other things I did/suggest: Keep a log book and write down every communication/attempted communication you have with them, including date & time. I filed a Better Business complain against them, but also went on an internet campaign where I logged negative comments in several online internet communities, homeowner association bulletin boards, etc., so that essentially whenever anyone did a search on Google for them, it turned up negative comments about their business. Be careful to stick to the facts in the comments - it's not slander if it's true. I think this had a negative affect on their business, because after they completed all work and passed inspections, they asked me to contact some of the websites to retract my comments. I understand your frustration. In the end, I waited 8 months, and it took them only about half a dayÂs work to complete all of the discrepancies. Good luck!