Tigerwood really needs to be klin dried material Im pretty sure its all delivered that way at least from EastTeak. I my self have never used any klin dried material for an outside project, never used splitstop screws I go with square drive trim head ss.

Seems like the warmer the material is the better while its going on,if its too cold to use TB111 it hardly matters what side of the garage its on. For the most part I dont treat butt joints or end cuts at all. I do install endgrain trim all around the outside of the deck. I dont use a beval cut on butt joints or snap lines for the screws the ol eyeball works for me.

The twp Folks are a strange bunch I am pretty sure they dont know what they have even with a Corp office 20 miles from my shop most of the time when we talk we dont agree on things I have been doing for 10 years or so. If you can get the 100 series use it, the 516 works about the same but takes longer to set up. Its around 65 here with full sun perfect weather to put on the finish.

All the exotic hardwoods need cross ventlation,air in air out.Using floor vents in places that cant be vented any other way works for me, I remove the controls and just install the vent. J.

John, thanks for the quick response.

The tigerwood I bought is kiln dried, so that's good. It's a semi-arid climate here in Colorado, so I'm thinking the kiln dried wood will be okay. Although I've come across a few posts, I don't think there's much participation from Colorado folks on this forum, so I don't know how the different woods behave in our climate after they're put down. I think it will be fine. (I'm opening up the market for you, Don! :o)

With regard to the SS screws, do you ever have the occasion to pull them out? I have read here and elsewhere that they tend to snap off. (From the context of some posts, they are difficult to pull out even when recently installed.) I would not know either way. When I removed my current decking, I must have pulled almost 2000 screws. They were in the deck about 18 years and were the old brass colored bugle head steel philips head type, 3" long. I'm guessing I snapped about 50, so that's pretty good. I just spoke with the folks at SplitStop. Their stainless screws snap more easily because they're soft, while their plain steel screws are case hardened, which makes them stronger. Their composite screw has few threads per inch than their wood screw, so it's a more agressive thread and will take more torque to install.

If I recall correctly, you glue your trim work. What if it's too cold? Do you wait, or install without glue?

Also, I assume by "endgrain", you mean you rip down decking to the desired width? What type of saw blade do you rip with? I'm using a friends 10" table saw, so I want to put a decent blade in it for the job.

I called TWP and they recommended the 100 series for the Brazilian hardwoods - just like you've been saying. They told me expect to spread between 2 and 3 gallons for the first coat. I've got 500 sq. ft. of deck plus another 100 for the steps and fascia. The local dealer is Kwal Paint. The TWP website says:

"All new wood must be thoroughly saturated and exposed to either rain or water; three or more times to open the wood grain and remove excess surface tannins. Allow a minimum of 48 hours of good drying conditions before applying TWP 100."

What do you suppose would happen if I put it down right after laying the wood, instead of waiting for it to be saturated 3 or more times like they are saying? Would the clear be better in this case?

It's getting pretty late in the year, so I'm thinking I don't have much leeway. I know you have much experience with Tigerwood. I wonder if anyone else can advise me. I hope no one thinks this is redundant. I've read many of the posts - I'm just trying to figure out which is better - finish now or use all the chems in the spring and finish then.

Thanks.

Kris its kinda of a deal with stainless screws it can be said they are soft compaired to case hard steel now if that is a bad thing depends on the person installing them. You have to remember your not killing snakes using ss in my mind ss is the only way to go with any outside project. When your puting down decking its really not in most Folks mind to uninstall it, no most of the time those wide thread cutter point ss screws do no come out gracefully.

I use Jesada saw blades/router bits and have for years,Makita makes some fine blades as well. Nothing but carbide of course. I always install decking and its trim with glue of some kind when its supper cold I use construstion adhesive rated for frozen preasure treated. Keep in mind the high grade adhesives will not set up until it warms up they just lay there like a spiked heeled ho on saterday night until the sun comes up but they will set up as warmer weather comes in. I have been know to set up a few space heaters on glued up curved frames when I have to, ghessss its a total drag to wake up and refule them but anything for a Buck.

I most always put on endgrain trim,rips of the decking glued and screwed all around usually my projects are skirted with 3/4 1'' stuff so 1 1/2'' trim makes for a nice reveal. This seals up the cut ends and with a router detail really makes the Wallet happy. Actually even 3/4'' trim would work if your not planing on a skirt.

Them twp guys,,,,Man the only reason I can think of for that wet the thing down thing is to cover their A$$ Some finish folks even recomend a high grade thiner be put on before the finish like that stuff is total voc probley makes the green mafia go into complete rage. Dont wait for anything but good weather to put that twp on that kd tigerwood is plenty ready to take finish, run out there when the high country sun is up put on a light coat,have a shot of Agavero, and wait for Spring. John

Am I reading this right? Do you really glue down all of your decking? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I would tend to think that this would cause a lot of splitting because the PT framing expands and contracts much more than the hardwood. Also, how can something be considered kiln dried if it's stored outside? Maybe it was initially dried in a kiln, but when you put it outside, the moisture content goes back up because of vapor in the atmosphere. All of the hardwood decking I buy is air dried. Kiln dried lumber is for interior applications. As far as the SS screws go, they can be a little bit of a pain somtimes. Even w/ pre-drilling, I find that every once in a while when I go to drive them, they "catch" wrong and the head cams out or snaps off completely. I then have to bust out the vice grips and manually twist them out. I still use them anyway (Headcote brand with the Smartbit, BTW). You never have to worry about corrosion w/ SS. I'm glad to hear that you are face screwing instead of using those cheesy hidden systems, especially on a deck that's low to the ground.

You stand corected,many kinds of S American lumber come kiln dried if they dident there would be way too much movement to the end user. If you have installed tigerwood,garapa or masenranduba you have installed kiln dried material and just dident know it.

SS screws do not catch wrong,if fact they dont do anything at all by them self its the instaler who makes the mistakes. J

I am afraid you stand corrected. I know some mills kiln dry the material, but if they store it outside and not in a controlled environment, then it's not "kiln" dry when you buy it. And you can't tell me that you don't strip out or break the occasional ss screw when you drive it into a knot or something. Furthermore, gluing down decking is wrong, wrong, wrong.

Let me amend my statement a little bit. I was a little bit hot from the wiseguy response from John. The drying method that the mills use is irrelevant. Whether they kiln dry it or air dry it doesn't matter at all. For decks and other exterior applications, what matters is the moisture content of the wood in relation to it's enviroment at the time you install it that matters. That's why they recommend that you let it acclimate when it arrives on site. And John, I know your website claims that you are the "master", but you're not the only one around here that knows how to build a deck. There's no need to be a smarty pants.

I've been building decks for over 30 years and I still snap a SS screw every so often. It happens, whether it is my fault or the screws. This happens much less frequently with non SS screws.

If you plan to remove the screws at a later date, I don't recommend SS screws. Use deckmates or something similar.

KD or airdried, the wood will take on the moisture that is in the enviroment that it is placed. Some exotic woods may be kiln dried to keep them relatively straight in a controlled drying process.

Mark

Kris,

Sorry to get here late, but here's my opinion...

1)
I've never used tiger wood, but your plan sounds ok for acclimatizing your boards.

2)
I don't know the splitstop screws, as I don't build with composites. I use 2.5" SS "headcote" trimheads. I use the brown for Ipe, but they come in lots of colors. I break an occasional screw, but it's rare. I pre-drill with the #8 SmartBit, and it works like a charm. Of course it helps to have a 14 volt Makita impact driver. It helps ALOT.

3)
I use Penofin on all my decks, and they look great...for awhile. No finish lasts long in the sun/rain/snow that we get here in Brooklyn (and everywhere else).

4)
Titebond won't work in cold weather...it gets chalky. I don't use anchorseal...I Penofin the ends.

5)
Those scarf joints from Joe's diagram can be nice, if you know what you're doing, but very unforgiving otherwise. I prefer to roundover (or chamfer) the tops of the butt joints. I like the look, and if it's not perfect, it still looks great. You should know one thing...the boards that you have won't all be the same width. 1x6 can be anywhere between 5 1/4"-5 1/2" wide. at least that's my experience with Ipe. It's makes butt joining a butt pain. I bring my tablesaw to take care of that problem.

6)
I totally screw down each board before going on to the next. I have a jig that I made for aligning screws.

7)
should be fine over a slab

8)
I use an 80 tooth forrest chopmaster for crosscutting. Expensive, but it cuts ipe like buttah. I like a freud thin kerf...i think around 40 tooth...for ripping.

get a bowrench or a board boss for taming your bowed boards.

good luck
steve

Thank you all for your time and wisdom. I greatly appreciate it.

I don't know much about working with fine hardwoods, and I certainly don't know about when in the process the drying occurs. I always assumed the drying, whether by air or by kiln, occurred prior to sawing the lumber up, so that the boards would be much more stable and remain a quality, sellable product after the sawing process.

Anything that happens after that should be relatively benign (I say this because the process evolved based on the experience of the people making a living with woodworking.)

The wood I have has been sitting out in a sheltered, open air warehouse about 20 miles south of me for the last two months. It still looks flat and I assume it has the appropriate moisture content. I am looking forward to laying it down and I am hoping for the best. I will keep you all informed as to what happens, since there seems to be less known about this type of wood among the users of this forum.

One other thing. I am going to be drilling some holes through some of the planks for electrical conduit. Some of the holes will be about 1" in diameter while others will be about 4" (for round junction boxes). Can I use a spade bit for the smaller holes (let's assume it will behave like ipe)? How would you cut the larger holes - a hole saw?

Thanks again.

I use a forstner bit for all of my visible holes. It does a much cleaner job. A hole saw will work fine for the larger holes.

One thing is still bothering me. It's this whole gluing business. Let me try to put this issue to bed with a real world example.

I built a deck and a screened porch on my house. The deck is PT and the floor of the porch is ipe. In the winter, the PT deck boards almost touch each other, and in the summer, the spacing between them grows to about 1/2". The ipe, on the other hand, has almost no noticeable difference in the spacing between summer and winter. What does this mean? It means that different species of wood expand and contract at different rates.

It is never a good idea to glue different species of woods together, especially in an outdoor environment, and especially with a hardwood like tigerwood and a softwood like yellow pine (PT). If you do, one of two things is going to happen, or a combination of both:

1) The glue bond between the boards is going to break. What's the point of gluing it if it's not going to hold?

2) The glue is going to hold, but the greater expanding PT is going to stretch the less expanding tigerwood to the point where it cracks.

Here's another thing to consider:

When you put glue on wood, it loses it's ability to breathe. If you slather the backs of your fascias with glue, you create a situation where the back of the board can't breathe, but the front can. What's the result? Cupping, splitting, cracking, warping. Also, if you accidentally get any glue on the visible portions of the wood, these areas will show up when you stain the deck, because these areas won't take any stain.

Here's my advice:

If you already bought the glue, find the receipt and return it. It's better practice to let wood breathe and move when it's outside. Everybody wants their joints to stay perfect, but it's not gonna happen. You're not going to win a battle against Mother Nature. The only thing I ever glue when I build decks are post caps.

Ahren,
I agree with you about using adhesives outside. I've said it here before...adhesives will eventually fail outside. I don't care if it's TB3, PL premium, gorilla, or epoxy...they will fail. I do use them for various reasons...I plug with TB3; PL premium makes a good moisture barrier between decking and substructure; gorilla has good gap filling qualities (if there happens to be a gap). So I use them.

I wouldn't depend on adhesives alone for holding joints together. I always use fasterers also.

Kris,

I would cut the 1" with a forstner bit, and a hole saw or my Bosch Jig saw for the 4" hole. About the Bosch...I just bought the new model (I now have 5 bosch jigsaws) and it is so friggin sweet. The new blade change mechanism is brilliant. They started changing blades with a screwdriver...then there was the "click". Now you move a lever, and the blade pops out. My assistant just couldn't figure out the "click" on my older saw, but now he can change blades.
I couldn't imagine life without 1...or 5.

BTW...I don't work for Bosch, or have shares of stock...just a happy customer.

steve

For the last hmmmm10 years or so I have used construction adhesive,a hevey bodied 409 type made by liqued nails,on the joists under the ipe decking. Not so much for the hold down power but to protect the dry ipe from all the water that gets out of the .40 preasure treated frame in the first few important weeks

With .40 pt material that comes up to .40 lbs of water for every cubic ft needed to get like a teaspoon of chem in the wood. Thats a lot of water. Using the adhesive combined with cross ventalation keeps my ipe projects from cupping in that first important time period. To make real sure that vapor gets out I run big fans under the frame after the decking is down and before any skirting is installed.

Using adhesive also helps even out the bad mill that always comes using pt lumber for the frame. The clip boys want the stuff used with their product as well for the same reasons.

This adhesive is not actually glue the way I use it,I am not trying to make up a joint, but it is really tough stuff far as holding power goes and it holds up well to a lot of stress/breakdown issues. John

I avoid this whole issue by buying KDAT (Kiln Dried After Treatment) PT. It is dried down to 19% moisture content and then stored inside until delivery. There is slim to nil shrinkage after install. In fact, I have to space my PT deck boards instead of butting them tight. An added bonus is that it weighs much less than green PT. I work alone, and it's a little easier on the old backbone to boost a 2x10x20' 10 feet in the air. I really try to talk my customers into face scewing w/ Headcotes instead of using clips. And I refuse clips altogether on decks that are low to the ground.

One of these years we'll finish our "deck" but we did ours with Fiberon (against the advice here/picked for color)and the splitstop screws. My husband really liked the splitstop. We ordered samples of browns from a few company's and they worked the best. My husband screwed down the deck quickly with no problems. He used the new Makita Lithium Drill (not impact).

The headcote screw top paint sample actually melted and it didn't go in as easy without predrilling. For us, they are a great screw. We took the advice here and didn't go with the clips despite it being the same price. The screws are so small they are barely noticable and look fine. Also, that way, if one board goes bad or gets scratched, my husband can easily replace it without taking out the entire deck.