Do they have a gas range, gas hot water heater, and/or wood stove? Is there a carbon-monoxide detector in the home?

/tricia

Why would the mortgage company be responsible?
Or even an inspector unless there were visible signs of mold. (I'm assuming there aren't any or you would have said.)
They may have some recourse against the seller, but it's very possible the seller thought they had remediated things by putting in a new subfloor.

Find the problem before looking for people to sue...

Prove it.

Regardless of what is causing their illness (and I believe "sick building syndrome" is real) they would have to prove the previous owners knew about the cause and were required to disclose that cause but failed to. A mold inspection is outside the area of expertise of a general home inspector. One problem with the craze of using a home inspector is people seem to think their HI is going to catch everything. The HI just does not have the time or expertise to catch everything that might be wrong in a house.

Best wishes to them.

No where in my post did i say they wanted to sue anyone. These kids would be the last people in the world to sue anyone. No gas stoves, hot-water heaters or wood stoves. Yes they have a carbon-monoxide detector. I don't think they had a home inspector i think it was just one the bank sent out. When they first kept smelling something they tore off some paneling in the basement and the wall was completely covered with mold. They had some guy come in ( very expensive) and clean it up. He said, it would be ok and not to worry about it. This is the room the sub floor was put in and i'm thinking the mold has gone under the sub floor or was already there and that's the reason the sub floor was put down in first place. Health department gave them the name of a company to come and check it. He has a dog that sniffs out mold. They said, they had never heard of this but i did see it on tv once. In our state the environmental health will come out and check for mold because of it being such a health issue.

An FHA "inspector" is really just an appraiser for the lender. They should have hired a home inspector..and although mold isnection is beyond the scope of a home inspection, a good HI could have at least told them if there were conditions present that could indicate mold (if any)...and recommended that they hire a a specilaist to perform testing...which is not something an FHA appraiser is going to do...

That said, the mold can be inside the walls..in concealed areas...the best bet is for them now is to hire a reputable environmental company that specializes in mold testing...as the testing protocol is complex and generally not done properly by those who are not specialists with extensive training and experience. And...$100 sounds a bit too inexpensive to be getting the right level of expertise.

This company is a reputable enviromental company that is coming out. They charge $350.00 for the first room and $75.00 for each room after that. He said, he would take samples and send it to there lab to see which kind of mold it is. The company has to come from Salt lake which is 150 miles away. None any closer.

If they are getting strange smells, they also need to check the vent stacks on their plumbing. If the vent stacks are clogged, methane and other sewer gasses can back up into the house and this can be very unpleasant.

Also have someone recheck the heater, I can speak from experience that a crack can be missed the first time around. I purchased a house and got sick with severe flu- like symptoms the next winter and could not shake them, cost me a fortune in medical bills because I was so sick. I had the heater checked and was told everything was ok. Fast forward to the end of the following summer (no flu symptoms then) and had problems with my AC. The tech working on my AC also checked the heater and found a 10 inch crack (saw it with my own eyes). All replaced and no problems at all this winter. It's amazing what carbon monoxide can do. BTW, I also had a CO detector and apparently it did not work too well maybe because the levels were not quite life threatening, just enough to make life miserable (maybe it was faulty?).

What is the age of the house? Does it have synthetic stucco? That has caused a lot of problems with water intrusion and subsequent mold. If the mold remediators do come out, the SOURCE of the mold has to be determined and fixed, otherwise it is a waste of money.

"If this is mold is there a recourse to the mortgage company or inspector or even the person that did the inspection if they have to have there whole house cleaned?"

"No where in my post did i say they wanted to sue anyone."

What "recourse" would you have except a lawsuit?

Have the heater checked a second time.
There are a couple different methods.
The smoke bomb in the firebox test is often the worst unless a sensitive electronic sniffer is used.
Cracks small enough to not produce a visible smoke leak can still allow flu gas to escape.
The unit needs to be HOT when it is checked also.
Many cracks close up when the heat exchanger is cold, but thermal expansion opens them up.

Thanks everyone i will tell them they need to have all this checked again. I know they had a man there that checks furnaces and i will tell them they may need to get another check. The house is a split level built in the 90's. What ever they find, they will fix immediately.
Neither one of them like be sick like this all the time.
It has to be something at the house for the symptoms to go away while there gone. I asked if they had knew carpet installed thinking this could be it but answer was no. Liz, i'm glad you found what was making you sick and was able to get it fixed. Let you know what they find.

Its kind of a long shot but another thing to check would be their homeowner's insurance policy... most policies these days specifically exclude mold claims, but if the policy doesn't there would be funds for remediation right there - after paying the deductible, of course.

Radon is also a problem and you can get the house tested quite easily for it.

Radon is also what I was thinking, along with sewer back up and have all the vents checked. Does the house sit on a slab or is there a raised foundation? Could there be something under the house==loose pipe, broken pipe, etc.
They also may talk to the building dept and get some additional advice.

Radon will give you cancer, but I don't think it gives you flu symptoms. And it is odorless.

New building materials (carpet, plywood, cabinets, even paint) can cause sickness from offgassing, but it doesn't usually affect all people in the house and (IME) the symtoms are more allergy-like than flu-like. I was sick for about 6 months after we moved into our new house (stuffy head, sore, DH was unaffected.

Good luck finding whatever it is.

As others said, it is highly unlikely the bank would be responsible. That inspector was for THEM not YOU. It was to basically say, "yup, there is a house here and it basically looks like the descritpion". They should have hired a home inspector. But even if they had it would not have covered something like this. Their illness is caused by something unseen and not evident unless someone stays in the house for days. The previous homeowners might possibly be responsible IF you can prove they knew about the issues with the house and didn't disclose.

Good luck to your niece/nephew. I just finished dealing with a much smaller scale mold issue myself.

First, definitely get an independent mold inspector - not someone who will test and clean up for you (or someone affiliated with a mold clean up company). Our initial visit was $350 for the visit + $125 per sample. The second visit (follow up after the mold clean up crew came) was the same.

The mold inspector will try very hard not to disturb anything (so he won't tear up the subfloor) because this sends mold spores into the air. He'll more than likely use a moisture sensor to determine where there is a problem and then take surface and air samples of the affected areas.

We had a 4x4 area of mold removed to the tune of $2400. It was more expensive b/c they had to carefully remove kitchen cabinets, demo the ceiling, clean it, re drywall and reinstall the cabinets.

For your clean up crew - make sure that they use a good biocide and a good encapsulator - otherwise the mold problem will come right back. Also, make sure that the mold inspector comes back between the cleaning and the encapsulating so that he can accurately test the clean up crew's work.

The insurance company probably won't cover anything. I know in our case (we had a ring seal on the toilet leak for who knows how long due to poor floor installation) the water leak was deemed 'improper maintenance' and the mold wasn't covered at all.

"Radon will give you cancer, but I don't think it gives you flu symptoms. And it is odorless."

This is right. Our HI discovered elevated levels of radon in our new house before we bought it. The sellers paid to have it mitigated. I think it costs them $1500. But we were told that radon does NOT make you sick but could cause lung cancer if left untreated.

I have heard of mold in humidifiers causing problems. If the furnace has a humidifier they might also check there. It is a quick and easy check. Any time the furnace is run, the mold would get spread around. Doesn't usually turn up in furnace checks, because they don't bother to open the humidifier.

How about if the home was previously used for drug making - what is that stuff that damages the home's interior...is it meth labs? I don't know what the illness would be, if any or what the smell would be either.

There's a lesson to be learned here. No matter how adult you think you are having an extra set of eyes to help you look at what might be your future home is important.
It's a wise person who knows when to ask for help.

Other things they may want to check out.....what chemicals if any were used to clean the carpets?
Were the floors recently redone....as in refinished?
Did the house recently have a rodent or bug problem that the PO may have had someone treat for?
Have the new owners brought in new pieces of furniture that might have a chemical coating?

the inspector was there and they have mold everywhere. It's even in the furnace ducts. They gave the ok for them to tear a wall out to see it and pulled up the that sub floor and theres not a spot there that's not black. Some of it has been sent in to detect just what kind of mold it is. The inspector did tell them that he has seen people just have to move out ( walk away) from there homes because of mold, that it could never be cleaned up. Now there just waiting to hear about the test results to see where they go from there.

So that's two recent posts now that talk about buyers depending on the FHA inspections to guide them and those inspections coming up short of expectations. Is this a new trend or just a coincidence? I, too thought the FHA was much more diligent if only for their own sake. If this couple ends up "walking away" from the unlivable house it's the FHA that will end up empty handed.

And I guess I should add that I realize this couple would also lose their deposit and their good credit but that is another subject.

Patches, sorry to hear about this, thankfully it was found.

Not sure if you've seen this post, scroll down a little, you'll see a post titled more:
Posted by lkplatow (My Page) on Mon, May 7, 07 at 9:36

she leaves a link to her house which you can see here. It looks like lkplatow is still posting here.. I don't know how she made out with this, maybe she'll post

dianemargaret: "So that's two recent posts now that talk about buyers depending on the FHA inspections to guide them and those inspections coming up short of expectations. Is this a new trend or just a coincidence?"

A couple of years ago, the FHA was running very misleading TV ads, leading buyers to believe that an FHA inspection was very thorough...and many came to believe that once inspected by the FHA inspector, a home inspection would merely be a duplication.

Subsequently, many of the HI licensing regulatory authorities throughout the country as well as professional orgs made a huge stink....the ads were pulled...and the FHA website now makes the distinction, and strongly recommends that FHA buyers hire a home inspector.

IMO...people just don't seem to get the proper guidance on these issues...the person who handled the FHA loan should have advised them of such...also the REA and/or the attorney should know the difference between the two.....and advised the buyers accordingly.

That said, a house that has THAT much mold would more than likely show SOME visible evidence that it could existÂÂsuch as water damage, discolorations on drywall etc.

A good HI would have picked up on those signs, and recommended that the buyer obtain a qualified mold test.

In addition, new subflooring is a major PITA to install; chances are that they used a contractor to do the job...if so, there would be a paper trail...and perhaps they can find out if indeed the old subflooring was mold infested. If so...they may have recourse against the seller for non-dislcoure...but that will depend upon the state law.

That said, perhaps the OP can shed light on why her niece and husband chose to forego a home inspection.

You might check into getting someone to ozone-shock the whole house.

Ozone kills everything-spores, mold, bacteria, viruses (& people, plants, & pets so get everybody out of there), & leaves the house smelling like fresh earth, like a greenhouse.

I wish you the best.

Here's some info on ozone shocking:

Here is a link that might be useful: High ozone shock treatment

I would worry if there was mold on the surfaces OP describes and therfore probably "IN" those surfaces that the ozone shock treatment wouldn't be forceful enough to clean it out. Esp with how sick her niece has been. I believe it can be VERY serious - I will only preface by my TV watching of Extreme Makeover Home Edition where they had a house, young father of I think 6 died (had been sick of an on a bit but not really ill) WHAM! from mold, had to tear down the whole house. You don't want something that tragic to happen. Scary.

Wow, I had no idea.

sorry, I had heard of ozone shock several years ago, didn't have updated info.

DD has had lots of mold problems too from a roof leak and a basement flood. From our research and experience we learned that insurance companies not only do not cover the damage, but report the damage in a universal (industry wide) database making it impossible to ever sell so we were reluctant to report it. I'd seriously love to have someone refute this.

She paid a mold remediation company $350. to evaluate the situation and we were looking at discarding a huge TV, genuine leather sectional/sleeper (the worst of it was in a basement TV room her SO had built for himself and buddies at the time) and over $5,000 for remediation. And that's after a brand new Pergo floor and lots of drywall had been removed.

She knew someone who could place their industrial ozone machines in there and monitor them and the mold. Took maybe a week or two, but it actually did get down inside the furniture, etc. and kill it. She turned them up when she left for work and off/down when she got home. If you could leave and leave them running for a week it would probably work even better. Then we washed what we could with soap and water with bleach.

I know there is a controversy about whether ozone is safe but just saying, it was an option that worked for her. Good luck. Sandy

Yes, insurance co's can report mold/water damage to Choicepoint, aka the CLUE Report, and blacklist a house. This makes it uninsurable, which is often the reason the sale falls through.

I also believe mold can sicken people. The people I know who had mold were also very sick and not the type to make stuff up. It's pretty hard to fake nose bleeds or other symptoms recordable by medical testing, and no one enjoys going thru it. Contrary to some opinions, they also don't typically get big court awards. If someone is responsible there is nothing wrong with holding them accountable, even if that means suing. Bad construction, sellers who conceal it, etc, deserve to be sued.

Yes, former drug making facilities ("meth kitchens") can contain toxins. Many states' disclosure laws have wording about disclosing any material fact, etc. And, many states' laws consider deliberate concealment to be a violation, even fraud. But new laws about meth kitchen disclosure are in the works, (only to be equally ignored and unenforced I'm sure).

"If someone is responsible there is nothing wrong with holding them accountable, even if that means suing. Bad construction, sellers who conceal it, etc, deserve to be sued."

I absolutely do agree with this statement, my earlier comment ("finding the problem before looking for someone to sue") notwithstanding.

Given the extent of the mold problem and the fact that the new subfloor covered it up, there appears to be substantial evidence that the sellers knew about the problem and had a duty to disclose. If they didn't disclose, they may very well be legally responsible - though I don't know exactly what that responsibility entails.

Unless they did fully disclose and your niece and nephew ignored that disclosure, a consultation with a lawyer sounds like a good idea.

"From our research and experience we learned that insurance companies not only do not cover the damage, but report the damage in a universal (industry wide) database making it impossible to ever sell so we were reluctant to report it. I'd seriously love to have someone refute this."

I don't know if this qualifies as a refutation, but there is something wrong with the logic: if insurance companies do not cover mold claims, why do they even care if there is mold present or not?

because the presence of the mold indicates that other factors related to bad maintenance, etc., may increase their risk.

"the presence of the mold indicates that other factors related to bad maintenance, etc., may increase their risk."

well, maybe. I mean, I suppose you're right in the sense of that being the reason the insurance companies and the people that run the CLUE database would give, but that actual reason itself seems kind of shaky. I don't believe a house with mold is more likely to suffer tornado or hurricane or earthquake damage (the big three risks to insurance companies) than one that is not. I could be wrong.

Perhaps because serious mold does not form by itself...generally it is due to a good amount of unchecked water intrusion...which can cause all sorts of hidden wood rot and structural damage...as moisture is a termite magnet.

That being the case, the statisticians may have discovered it is cheaper to not insure at all...then to insureÂ...and get stuck covering the conditions that most likely contributed or even caused the mold issue in the first place....and the existence of mold is their perfect out for refusing coverage.

With insurance companies, it is all about them.

""the presence of the mold indicates that other factors related to bad maintenance, etc., may increase their risk."

well, maybe."

Mold requires moisture to grow.
Its presence indicates that moisture has gotten into the structure.
Along with moisture comes many other possible problems, like rot and termites just for starters.

It indicates poor construction, or a lack of maintenance.