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lmfoodie

stumped by kitchen-plus remodel

19 years ago

Hello,

I'm quite new to Gardenweb, and, unsure if my quandary falls under Remodeling or Kitchens, I've posted to both. Thanks in advance for your attention to this long post.

Here's our scenario: we live in what we believe is the home from which we'll retire (another 25+ years?). We *love* it, with 3 exceptions: 1) the kitchen is teeny and falling apart, 2) we desperately need a mudroom+storage+entry-type space and 3) there's no garage. Unfortunately, the only way to truly improve the kitchen is to bump out and knock down foot-thick stone walls, rejigger several interior and exterior walls, and move a powder room. The kitchen is our focus; we love to cook and entertain. Our house is a '40's Tudor with a slate roof, so excellent exterior work would also be required.

After spending months attempting a solution ourselves, DH and I contracted an architect to draw up basic plans. We specifically asked him to include a kitchen where family and guests could gather, as well as a mudroom and detached garage, BUT to enable us to do the renovation in phases if necessary, in keeping with our financial constraints. We also requested that he minimize the additional square footage (the kitchen area is very close to our property setback limits.) He delivered, I think, admirably. We also agreed that our target budget for everything (all interior, exterior, appliances, extra HVAC) EXCEPT for the garage would be roughly $175K.

We are now receiving preliminary bids from builders/contractors...at almost double this figure!!! We are beyond dismayed, especially since we spent countless hours researching this type of constuction, vetting architects, reviewing our long-term financial plans, and talking to people in our geographical area who have undertaken such projects. I also am aware that this is a relatively high-cost project, but we've saved and lived modestly so that we could afford a home (and eventual improvements to it) just outside a major city in a great school district.

We're still waiting on a couple of bids, but will doubtless need to have a serious conversation with our architect. What next?? Interview more contractors? Simply gut and remodel our existing kitchen and deal with it being a shoebox? Buy an armoire for our coats and build a shed for our cars? Scrap the whole project? We're not in a position to serve as GC ourselves, to possibly save $ that way. I am disheartened by this situation, and would welcome your thoughtful feedback.

Thanks!

Comments (4)

  • 19 years ago

    Well, a lot depends on where you live, but $300+K sounds high.

    I can tell you that we easily spent $150K in Calif 11 yrs ago by adding on a bedroom and storage room, bumped out the laundry room and gutted 2 1/2 baths.
    The architect isn't the one to talk to regarding cost......building is just very expensive right now! Continue getting bids and have the contractors break down where the major costs are.
    Just the fact you have foot thick exterior stone walls is pretty costly in itself.

    Have you considered just moving and investing the money in a larger home that suits you better??

    I must admit we've done the same thing you're considering.........remodeled our home to become our dream, retirement home...........three times in three different homes!!
    Just saying that things change over the years and look carefully at how you invest huge sums of money.

  • 19 years ago

    You don't mention what area of the country you live in, and costs do vary widely, but even here in expensive Northern New Jersey, if we sold our house and added $175k to the sale price (not even the $300k your builders/contractors are suggesting), we could get a very differently configured house than we now have. A bigger kitchen, bigger garage, mudroom, etc.

    If you really are planning on laying out that kind of money, you owe it to yourself to see what kind of house you could buy that would be more appropriate for your needs. You just might find it right there in your current school district. There's a lot more inventory on the market these days.

  • 19 years ago

    I started my kitchen budget at about $40,000. Then we realized we really wanted the master bath done so we went up to $75. Then we talked to designers and realized we should pop it up to $90....then we started getting bids and pricing appliances...and we're now at $200,000. I'm not going above that dangit! heh heh

    We did increase the size of the job, and unlike you we have no major exterior work, but we are re-doing every room in the house. I'm in the process of interviewing contractors and find the bids to be wildly varying. I expected a range of $60,000 to $75,000 given my research (I'm buying EVERYTHING but the stuff you put on (sheetrock) or inside of the walls). One of the guys I really liked, I mean really wanted to hire right there said I was very light on the budget...sigh...I expect his costs to be about 65% of the hard item costs, which will put him over $250. So....I began the interview process again.

    This sucks, really sucks, so I understand where you're coming from, but keep it up. And don't settle for one guy who does come in at your goal if the balance aren't even near. Low ball bidding never works well.

    I would agree you should talk to your architect again and discuss options to scale it down or in phases. And I'd ask for recommendations from the architect. They should have done an approximate budget using norms in your area, so they should have some idea who fits in their budget schematic.

    One other thing I suggest you do is to get an "As proposed" appraisal and make sure that what you are doing makes perfect sense in the market. When you start talking about a $200 or $300,000 job, you should make sure it makes some sense. You shouldn't expect 100% value right back, but you do want something close to 60% or 70% of cost when it's finished. It will cost you about $600 to do this, but it's well worth the money spent.

    We took a hard look at what we were doing, since we were spending about a significant percentage of our homes future value on this remodel, but we couldn't find a comparable property to what we'll have for under $900,000 (our value will be $500,000 when finished). And that $900,000 needed a remodel :o( We live on a lake and just couldn't reproduce our location within cost, so spending what we're spending makes sense, and after the appraisal, shows we'll be recooping our funds in value fairly quickly.

    Never do the remodel with a 25 year plan ahead of you. Look more in the 4 or 5 year field. You NEVER know what will happen. One of you could get sick and need to move for medical care, or someone dies, breaks their back, loses their job, etc., Stuff happens, so don't spend $200 if you can't recoop that value fairly quickly. You don't want to end up backwards in the house and then need to sell.

    (20 year banker talking here so I have seen this happen SOOOO MANY TIMES I just had to lecture you!) :o)

  • 19 years ago

    Wow, this sounds incredibly familiar. We live in the Seattle area and hired an architect about two years ago for an addition to our house, including a kitchen upgrade, attached 2 car garage, family room and master bathroom. After a few meetings with the architect, he gave us a rough estimate of 150-200K. 1.5 years later, our architect gave us another bid, this time reviewed by a builder, and it was closer to 360K--we felt completely deflated. Now, we are looking at roughly 400-420K, two years after the first estimate from our architect. Our architect was the first to say that he "could give estimates all day, but in the end, it wouldn't necessarily mean anything." We've received two bids, the second is exactly 100K higher than the first, without any clear reason.(guess which GC we'll be using?) We're leaving a fairly high contingency, as is recommended for remodeling projects, just in case there are anymore surprises . . . But as another poster mentioned, do keep your eye on the market--make sure you can't buy what you need without the cost and headache associated with a remodel. In our area, remodels are hugely popular because real estate prices are still high. Best of luck to you!