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valleigh_gw

Please help with understanding windows!

17 years ago

We are remodeling and building an addition to our 1926 house that currently has double hung 6 over 1 windows, with sash cords and all. Some windows we are keeping and just repairing sashes, some are new, but going into existing walls, but new location and some going into new brand walls. The house is stucco. In total, we are adding about 40 windows so it's a sizable component of our budget. The new windows will be a mix of 24" and 36" wide also to be double hung, 6 over 1 and two casements in the kitchen.

My architect has specified a mix of Andersen 200 and 400. One prospective builder told me that with the tax credit, it is only a little bit more to simply do all 400s. Now someone else I know who did a lot of shopping around and also mixing old/new said to go with Jeldwen - that you're just paying for a name with Andersen and Marvin. Then one builder told me about a Canadian company Bonneville???

My main question is, what do I need to learn about windows and brands? Or is it more about how they're installed? We have bids from 4 prospective builders. SHould I be asking them anything specific about windows?

Should I just go with what architect specd or is there something comparable for less $ or better for the same $ that will look good with the old ones/function well (bit I guess not as good as the old glass.) Once you decide on a brand, is there much price variation depending on where you buy them, or should I just let the builder we end up choosing deal with that?

Any help or suggestions of good sources to learn about this would be great. Windows are so important, but I don't know how much I should look into this myself or rely on architect and builder.

Thanks!

Comments (4)

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Jeld Wen makes several levels of windows just like Andersen does so it is unwise to just compare brand names. (The Jeld Wen models used to be separate brands called Pozzi, Norco & Caradco) Jeld-Wen also makes all PVC windows.

    If you want wood windows but don't want to paint them your choices are aluminum clad or PVC clad. Only Andersen makes PVC clad window frames and the sash is covered with Fibrex (a PVC & wood fiber composite similar to Trex decking) on the 400 Woodwright and "Flexicron" paint on the 400 TiltWash and 200 TiltWash (no, it's not a "cladding", but a tough PPG epoxy paint). The 200 Narrowline sash is just painted; please don't use this window. Of these Andersen windows I would only consider the 400 Woodwright to be worthy of putting in a house I was going to live in. The other models just have too ugly a muntin (grille) design and poor sash cladding. The 200 TiltWash has a particularly poor sill design requiring an additional custom sill nosing to prevent it from leaking. I don't believe you would be paying more for Andersen because of its name, but because of the way that it is mass marketed the price is unpredictable. (I priced some Andersen windows at Home Depot and as I was leaving the salesman told me he would drop the price 10%.)

    The primary disadvantage of the 400 Woodwright is that it is only available in 4 pretty mundane colors. Aluminum windows are generally available in 20 or more standard colors and unlimited custom colors. Andersen bought Eagle Windows so they could reach the "upper end" market dominated by aluminum clad windows. I would consider Andersen to be a good middle of the road product for a reasonable price if you buy it from the right source. Make sure your contractor is not marking them up excessively. I have found this to be the case when they have recommended the 200 series which are heavily discounted to contractors.

    Aluminum cladding is applied in two ways: 1) a sheet wrapped over the wood base (roll-form) and 2) an extrusion applied to the wood base. To me only the extruded method is acceptable because the roll-form tends to have poor joints and can trap water so the wood rots. For me that eliminates a lot of window models.

    I believe many builders will tell you anything to get you to use their favorite window from their favorite supplier so I would not rely on their opinion entirely but they should know a lot about the suppliers. Your architect might or might not know a lot about windows.

    I've used the Woodwright twice with good results but only when the color was not an issue (they delivered the wrong color for one of the jobs). I've gotten good pricing with Eagle (aluminum clad) but there were some problems with leaking glass seals so I wouldn't use them on the ocean again. I won't use anything from Pella; sorry if that offends anyone. I've used Jeld-Wen's unclad middle window (Norco) with good results. I can't remember if the top of the line is extruded but I doubt there is a saving over Marvin. I don't recommend anything from Harvey Industries because they look really bad on the inside.

    Most of my projects use Marvin but that's largely because people who use me are usually willing to pay more for windows although that may now be a thing of the past. The Ultimate Double-Hung is an exceptional window. It may be expensive but it's not overpriced. Oddly it needs a custom sill nosing because of the poor sill overhang and that adds cost too. I sometimes use an aluminum clad sash in an unclad wood frame for clients that are picky about maintaining a traditional/historic appearance because the exterior trim can be installed at the factory the old-fashioned way. I believe Marvin and Eagle are the only companies that offer that option.

    I have also used all wood windows from Boston Sash when cost was more important than maintenance (my own vacation house). They even make a wood window with a balance system completely hidden in the sash. I once asked if they could provide cedar, cypress or composite sills and/or trim and they said to bring them whatever I liked and they would use it.
    On one occasion Marvin's extruded aluminum clad awning window above a kitchen sink was cheaper than Harvey's Majestic roll-form aluminum clad awning window. You can't know the cost of anything until you ask for a quote. Make a window schedule and shop it around.

    There are some folks on the Window Form who can help if they are still active there.

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Thanks mightyanvil.

    I don't really get the maintenance thing. Our original 1926 windows, though some a bit drafty, are mostly working fine The only thing we did was paint the house about 8 years ago. I don't know if the former owner did anything with the windows.

    Where is the best place to get an intor - is Home Depot good for that, or should I go to window stores?
    Thanks

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    valleigh-

    Mightanvil makes a great number of points. But, I think it depends on your viewpoint of "a window". if you basically want a window for some light and a breeze, i'd go w/ a reputable mfg and a good warranty. If your a stickler on the details, like I was, then I'd start kicking some tires and look at the various options that are important to you. We went w/ Marvin ult clad. At the time, they were one of the few mfgs w/ the hidden jamb liner. Woodwright and Lincoln were just coming out w/ these designs. Marvin's TDL and SDL options are awesome. Some mfgs (eagle at the time) frame their grilles w/ a surround, which imo, did not look authentic. they may have changed things since then. Loewen makes a nice window, too.

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    If the windows are operating and just drafty, there are a number of ways to tighten them up for infiltration.

    Resource Conservation Technology, Baltimore, MD has a large assortment of seals for double hung windows.

    'Flipper' seals are plastic placed in small grooves routed into edge of the sash (3/32 wide), and the bottom and top of double hung windows.

    Other seals are used at the meeting rail (where the double hung windows overlap in the middle).

    Add even some single layer storms with gaskets on the mating face and the infiltration losses will drop significantly.

    Most of the 'gain' from new windows is in infiltration loss.

    Windows use 'U' value instead of R value.
    R= 1/U.

    No matter how many layers and low E you add, windows have a horrible R value.

    Infiltration is a huge factor on older windows, but easily fixed.