KD's tend to lean to beauty verses function and sometimes forget function all together (my experience). For instance the one who set the stove in the doorway ::eyes rolling::

I've tried to make function first, and then be sure to incorporate aesthetics in the function. Honestly I think I'm getting both without compromise so far...but then again, ask me this when the kitchen is finished :oP I might have a differnt answer.

sacrificing function in the name of aesthetics is just laziness. a good KD will be able to achieve both. function always comes first, and things that represent aesthetic challenges will be transformed into architectural features/focal points by good designers.

There was a thread here about a month ago that asked what was the feature we designed around. Quite a few of us found that windows were the defining factor. Only you can know if the addition of better daylight and enhanced view is worth the loss of cabinetry space and the expense of moving the sink. For me, the windows were the first thing I put into our kitchen and then everything else had to fall in around them. Having a kitchen that I want to be in and one that doesn't make me feel cut off from the rest of the world was an important feature--I would consider it as much a functional aspect of the kitchen as the placement of the range. My advice, would be go for the door and sidelights if you think it will enhance the happiness factor when you're in the kitchen, as long as you still end up with a well-functioning space within your budget. Now if you were asking a question like, 'would you buy a faucet that was beautiful but didn't function as well as an uglier one,?' I would say go for function over beauty.

You actually have two different questions- does practicality win over beauty is one. Does more window space win over storage space is the other. Window space is not necessarily not practical- if it opens up your kitchen and makes it more enjoyable and useable it's practical as well as aesthetically pleasing!

I am biased towards windows (as many on this forum are). In my last kitchen I had four long windows a foot off the floor and french doors onto our deck- we lived on a gorgeous acreage backing onto a ravine and those windows and doors were the shining star of our kitchen. My kids would sit on the sills (windows opened up high- so no danger)and we could watch deer saunter up and nibble on my lilies- (didn't like that part!)- it was great! I have two greenhouse windows and a sliding glass door off my kitchen in this place, and did consider making it one whole wall of windows, (maybe I should have...), but this kitchen is fairly small, so just had no other space for my dishes...

I can't imagine regretting putting in that expanse of glass- sounds like a wonderful idea to me...

Like zelmar, the almost floor-to-ceiling windows and french door with transom (and 2 skylights) went into the design first and everything revolved around them. I sacrificed a great deal of storage and counter space for them which led me to be meticulous about defining my functional requirements.

I worked in my old kitchen for weeks with a 6' ruler across the back of my 8' island (always had 2' of 'stuff' on it) that was my main prep area. I noted the amount of counter I used for varying types of meals as well as any other counter used. At the end I could define that I needed one counter that was 3.5' uninterrupted plus a couple of smaller pieces. No KD would have been that compulsive.

As a result I have a very functional kitchen with enough storage, enough counter and great light. I 'owned' the kitchen from the moment it was done. Everything worked with precision for me personally but visiting helpers work easily. I also don't keep anything that I don't use regularly unless it can fit on the top shelves of the wall cabinets (Christmas cookie tins, novelty cake pans, egg container that came with fridge, etc.)

You can have both function and aesthetics; it just takes some work.

Thanks for the advice and ideas! I am thinking much more broadly about the possibilities as a result of all the great input on this forum. Wish I had done that for the bathroom remodel!

My KD says that first, he makes a kitchen functional, and then he can make any functional kitchen beautiful.

I think there has to be a balance, but basic function has to come first.

For me, I honestly don't cook that much, and when I do, I make pretty simple meals. So I made decisions based on aesthetics that might not have been so functional for someone who cooks 3 elaborate meals a day in his or her kitchen.

For instance, when I am standing at my range, my back will be to the table. Some people would hate that, because they want to interact with their guests while they are cooking. I wanted my beautiful range (a Cornufe) and the mantel hood over it to be the focal point of the kitchen. Had I chosen a location where the range faced the table, most people would never see it, given the way traffic flows in our house. I also would have had very little landing area next to the stovetop in that location. When I do cook, it is often for large crowds and very chaotic, and I'm too stressed for small talk, and I would have hated having a small landing area. I weighed all these considerations, and chose what worked for ME. Other people would make different choices. But before we even considered aethetics, we first made sure we had adequate clearance, a good place to vent, etc. Basic function.

There are certain aspects of our design that I am nervous about, so we'll just have to see how it all works out.

I'm going to use rough-faced slate behind the stove and a mosaic marble backsplash for the rest...Definitely 'aesthetics over practicality' choices that scare me a bit. I am terminally practical, so this choice is out of character. My fir counter on the island probably would also qualify as putting looks first, but it was nearly free, so brings enough economic practicality in to make it OK. :-)

"Form follows function" is a rule of good design. That means function first, then beauty. Forgetting that results in beautiful but useless room that people can't live in and you find people rarely using.

Sue

I've made a couple aesthetic choices over practicality. I chose a polished antique marble island and sink. It WILL etch and need periodic sealing, but I LOVE it!! I choose an antique gas/wood/coal cast iron cookstove for my gas cooktop. It's massive, not the most pratical use of space, and needs a match to light it. However it's really cool looking, LOL. I don't have a lot of stuff so less storage isn't a big deal to me. And in my house, too much counterspace is an invitation for junk collections.

I guess it comes down to what you're willing to give up to have that aesthetic feature. If what your giving up isn't a big deal to YOU then I say go for it. If you think you can give up the counterspace and storage and the extra natural light is worth it to you then by all means put those windows/doors in!

I suspect that the most functional kitchen would be closed off, entirely stainless steel and tile, and cleaned from ceiling to floor by using a steam lance at night. By that standard, nearly any kitchen anyone would tolerate for residential use has already traded away efficiency for aesthetic requirements.

I am going to guess that second to the window space versus cabinet space trade (that should include the open space concept versus cabinet space trade) is the trade between using a large and efficient ventilation hood and achieving a refined look where no component is outsized.

kas

I was trained as an engineer and invariably tend toward the practical. We hired an architect whose avocation was painting; he tended toward the aesthetic. We fought...a lot! But fortunately, we were able to maintain respect for one another's views and find compromises that ultimately optimized both the aesthetics and functionality of our home. It's difficult to imagine hiring a designer who has a fundamentally different way of looking at things than you do but we found it to be a great solution.

For those unfamiliar with brain function, the right side of the human brain is the center for artistic processing, intuition, wholistic views, etc. and the left side is the rational, analytical, iterative processing center. Many people have a dominant side; I'm a lefty and my architect was a righty. When you can tap inputs from both sides of the brain, I think you'll wind up with a better design overall.

Well, that's my rational, analytical view on things...

Bob

I'd definitely start with FUNCTION, then make your functional space beautiful. It's easy to make any practical design attractive using beautiful materials, but trying to make it WORK well when the layout's bad is just plain impossible.

There's always tradeoffs -- But the best you can do is make INFORMED tradeoffs. As Judeny said:

"I worked in my old kitchen for weeks with a 6' ruler across the back of my 8' island (always had 2' of 'stuff' on it) that was my main prep area. I noted the amount of counter I used for varying types of meals as well as any other counter used. At the end I could define that I needed one counter that was 3.5' uninterrupted plus a couple of smaller pieces. No KD would have been that compulsive. "

That's very similar to what I did. I went through my old kitchen and inventoried the countertop and cabinet space that I used most, middle and least. I then determined if that space was 'enough' or not, and if not, how much I really needed. Just having those numbers written down made it easy for me to evaluate different design options, and know which potential trade-offs really hurt the functionality and which didn't.

You mentioned an example of more light for countertop space. Well, do you need all the countertop space? And do you know how much countertop space you really need? It would be a mistake to choose more light when it leaves you with only 18" of prime prep counter space; but a great choice when the counter space you 'lose' is space you don't need and wouldn't use often.

sweeby, re: your comment on prime prep countertop space, our KD quoted a study that claimed that the vast majority of the time, people use only the front 15" of countertop depth. Of course, everyone's different but it does suggest that you test your assumptions about how you actually use your kitchen.

Bob

Hey gang!

I know the ULTIMATE functional, easy clean environment!

It's called PRISON!

And I don't want to spend ANY time there.

The balance between function and aesthetics is an extremely personal one. Everyone needs to find their own balance, and I bet wherever they fall on the spectrum they feel is the optimum.

Me? I err on the aesthetics side.

Or at least I'm honest that I err on the aesthetics side. The restaurant kitchens I worked in when I was young were not places you would ever want to spend time in. Although they did make an impression on me. If function were everything, we'd all have really ugly kitchens.

So do what you think is right for you. Don't intellectualize or second guess too much. Or think you're going to become a different person or a different cook just because you have a different kitchen.

It's one thing to not have room to cool 2 dozen breakfast muffins. But a new kitchen is not going to magically give you the TIME to bake muffins every morning. So if that's your reason for getting 2 ovens, you're owed a re-think.

Find your own balance, that makes you feel good, and enjoy it!

Bob, it's funny you should mention being an engineer and leaning to the function side. I'm a design engineer (lots of creativity required). I appreciate function but lean toward asthetics and I'm right-handed, interesting...

Interesting....my original "dream layout" has a 48" range centered on an 18' back wall of my kitchen. This would then put the clean up sink on my island(which was not my first choice as I always wanted an appliance free island)instead of the sink on the same wall as the range. So, this is now my battle between form and function. Although both layouts might "function" the same, I didn't want to function with the clean up sink on the island, but I love the form of the range being the focal point of the kitchen centered between 2 windows on the back wall.

It all comes down to choices and trade offs!!!

Both my KD and I were all about function first - beauty and aesthetics second. We spent a lot of time first talking about our lifestyle and current cooking habits along with what they might be in the future when we had a new kitchen and even beyond that when we might have more free time. From there we spent alot of time on the layout and design to meet our functional needs. When that was all done we got into all the aesthetic choices - color, materials, etc. That is where I felt like I made those kind of choices - not in the layout or design of the space. The one real trade-off I felt like I made for practicality over aesthetics was to get a porcelain tile floor instead of limestone tile. Good decision - no regrets.

As far as windows go, I have lots of big windows throughout my house and I basically kept the kitchen window situation the same in the new kitchen - other than getting a new sliding french door considerably wider than the old slider - so I now have an eight foot wall of glass. It would have been more practical (cheaper) to get a smaller one that fit exactly in the old space.

The problem with giving up function for beauty is that beauty fades. What I mean is, if the function you're giving up really hinders your ability to work well, if it's something that will bother you constantly, that beauty will turn ugly very quickly.

I'm not saying to make everything totally utilitarian as in a prison or a restaurant kitchen. There's an in-between. But you have to consider the function carefully before going for the beauty instead. And you also have to consider how "beautiful" that beauty really is.

For example, some people are dead set on symmetry, to the point where they give up function for it. I believe that symmetry is not only not that important, but that it sometimes can be more beautiful to have things asymetrical.

So you really have to weigh the value of the function against the value of the beauty. Some beauty is worth giving up function for, depending on what the function is, and vice-versa.

Regarding your windows, you have to decide how much you will miss the extra storage & counter space. Will that be less than you have now or are you going to have more either way, just maybe not as much more if you do the windows? How dark will your kitchen be without the windows? Will you be gaining a ton of light or an incremental amount that might not be worth what you're giving up for it? This decision is totally subjective and you have to decide which one will work better for you in your particular layout.

Most of the KDs I talked to were very concerned with aesthetics. I think that's because the look of the kitchen is what most of their customers judge. We here on the KF are the rarer breed who agonize over the details. Based on the discussions I had with (many!) KDs and GCs, the vast majority of remodelers prefer to leave the details up to the KD and/or GC and just want a beautiful kitchen when it's all said and done.

As an example of this, if you ever look at model homes, even high $$ homes, about 90% of those gorgeous (and they are gorgeous) kitchens are lacking in the functionality department. But when people buy a house, most of them are not looking at how functional the kitchen is, just how beautiful.

Great post, lowspark. But then, as earlier stated, I'm a left-brained, functionality-oriented engineer.

The comment you made about beauty fading is analogous to what happens when you select a mate. He/she ain't gonna look like the wedding pictures after 5-10-20 years. The relationship issues are what's gonna really matter because that's what a marriage is all about. Similarly, for most folks, a kitchen will soon become more about food prep and less about impressing visitors with your great design tastes. The "form follows function" mentioned earlier is a great place to start your design process.

And you're right about many spec home kitchens. Their beauty is mostly skin-deep. The focus of the builders is on making a great first impression and on increasing their margins. So you don't find full-extension drawers and lots of practical details that add nothing to "the look" but everything to the functionality.

It's fine to strive for optimizing both aesthetics and function; just be especially cautious when you compromise function.

Bob

I'm totally agreeing with 'beauty fades'...and not over time, but while you're in the midst of working. When I walk into my kitchen for whatever various reason, I notice that the cabinet doors aren't painted, the drawer fronts are missing, the black pans underneath the burners on my rangetop are a mess, and we have a temporary bright green laminate top on our island. When I'm cooking or baking, I don't see any of that...Only how great the layout works, how fun and useful it is to use my 2-burner griddle pan with powerful burners, how great it is to have my pots and pans in drawers right under the rangetop and have ovens nearby but out of the way, convenient it is to have a prep sink --in a handy spot and not work over dirty dishes, how wonderful it is to have my kids working with me, etc., etc.

The other day I noticed the messy floor and almost wished I'd gone totally commercial style so we could really swab down the floors without babying anything...But really, I still want it to look nice when I walk in in the mornings, when I sit at the table with a cup of something waiting for the muffins to get done, when we sit at the table to do a puzzle, etc. It does primarily have to function well as a kitchen, then I can enjoy it. If it wasn't aesthetically pleasing and comfortable to be in, it would take away some of the uses of the room, which wouldn't be as efficient in terms of the square footage use of our house...So in that sense, having it be attractive is also practical.

On the general subject of aesthetics v function, function should always come first...if you are irritated by having to use a beautiful but annoying widget (faucet, cabinet, fridge, whatever), eventually you transfer your irritation to the widget and it becomes ugly to you. On the specific subject of choices that I made in the interest of aesthetics over function, about the only ones that comes to mind right now are, potentially, the faucet and sink. I have a two handle, beautiful faucet (Grohe Bridgeford type), because the modern ones did not appeal to me, but I've noticed that people here like the one handled pulldown Grohe Ladylux types a lot for ease of use. The Shaw's sink is also beautiful but, possibly, prone to dripping from its front (per Consumer Reports). We shall see.

Judeny, loved that you assessed your counter needs and went from there. So often folks posit a 'need' for great swaths of counter, saying even 5 feet in an island "isn't enough". I am a believer that the well placed 3.5 foot run is perfection. And with proper access to range and water and storage, the well functioning kitchen is born. That said, I do love my 5 ft island. But I have no clue what more I'd do with an 8 ft island.

When the counter work space is where you need it, long runs are unnecessary. So the aesthetics can then drive a beautiful design with the flexibility of the remaining space. That's my 2 cents.

I am definitely a function over form person, but my DH is the opposite. (He also doesn't cook.) But whenever there was a rub in decision making, function always took precidence. Our kitchen is now almost complete and far more beautiful than I could have imagined even though extremely functional. We still need to make a decision about an island (not built in) and are wrangling about it a bit. I want butcher block that will definitely be used; he's unsure. We'll figure it out but I'd put my money on butcher block winning!

celticmoon, it's good to hear from someone who appreciates a compact work area. You are so right about 'well placed'. In any kitchen I have ever worked in, no matter where the big counter is, I cook to the right of the stove and the left of the sink so that 3.5' had to be in one of those locations. And I never want it to be more than a step and/or turn between the sink and stove.

My 3.5' is to the left of the prep sink on the island where I face the big windows. The cooktop is opposite the prep sink with the oven undercounter to the right of the ct giving me 2.5' of counter there.

In spite of the fact that my kitchen is small, I do not feel hampered by the size. My splurge on windows which necessitated the well defined requirements ultimately enhanced the functionality.