My very first thought: Open it up and make the breakfast nook a peninsula / bar. Keep the hutch and just dress it up a bit. Classic built-ins are wonderful.

Since you are remodeling with view to sell, I would ditch the banquette and not replace it since it will be added cost plus the new owners may prefer different seating. I agree with pbrisjar on keeping the hutch. It's lovely. A cabinet depth fridge is going to cost more than a standard depth one with cabinetry used to create a built-in look. I'd put the refrigerator in the left corner on the other side of the WD. I would also get rid of the cabinets which turn the corner of the range wall but just bring them straight to the wall. Do the peninsula and open it up.

I love the built-ins too. Is something like this what you have in mind?

I had to switch the DW and sink b/c it felt too cramped otherwise, but I think the fridge doors would block the doorway to the laundry. I also wonder if it might be important in this area to get a counter depth fridge (not built in, but cab. depth). We're hoping to find some good deals on craigslist for gently used high quality appliances, and even today I saw several french door cab. depth ones that were fairly reasonably priced.

Hi, Rahime. Sorry to hear your kitchen gets to wait.

Regarding this house, since buyers in different neighborhoods tend to have different degrees of appreciation for old construction, if you don't know exactly what this home's market wants, start interviewing realtors. But be very careful in evaluating their opinions, which will vary widely in quality. I was a residential appraiser for years and was constantly asking them for information which ranged from dead on to fantastically wrong. Some neighborhoods pay their highest price for for unspoiled, unupdated original construction, others their lowest, and most are somewhere in between.

Keeping as much original detail as possible while offering updated function is often the highest-return route. For instance, keep the banquette and hutch, as Prbisjar says, but definitely have the banquette open to the kitchen. In neigborhoods that don't pay a premium for unspoiled original, moving them both is an option. Unless your market asks for it, don't bother with leaded glass. Plain clear will do very nicely, although genuine old or replicated old would be even better--if your market will pay for it.

Watch out for having fun spending on items that you won't get your money back on.

One thing that home, like many old ones, is lacking that most markets would want is a nice relation between the inside and outside recreational areas. The garden should ideally provide attractive views for people inside, with a reasonable degree of privacy, and be accessible directly by doors that do not require people to pass thru utility areas.

In a small home, usually that precious back corner of a house will be much better used as a sunny breakfast or sitting area than as a mud room. Let's face it, not many urban dwellers come for lunch after a hard morning working in the vegetable patch and digging crud from the cow's hooves. We put patios and lounge furniture outside those doors, and our need is for direct access to the fridge for a new drink, not a soaking tub for the clothes we strip off.

If you have an odd-shaped lot and an alley's outside the mudroom and the biggest yard is outside the bedroom side, say, then a bedroom gets moved to the mudroom and part of the kitchen area, and a bedroom becomes the new kitchen?/breakfast room?/whatever and gets the door(s) and windows to the garden. Again assuming your market doesn't pay its highest price for original construction.

Anyway, that's the general idea. Your biggest return will usually come from correcting failures of old layouts to meet modern function requirements, including adding sunshine and views to the kitchen/breakfast area. Fix what's broken, update what's hidden in walls only as much as you have to (water leaks that announce their existence through discolored walls fall in this category, usually replacing the whole plumbing system does not). Replace roofs at the end of life with the lower end of the quality required in your neighborhood. Add details your market really really wants if possible--dishwasher typically wanted and possible, second bath always wanted and very often fully repaid but not always possible. For most neighborhoods, look at the property as a whole and find a way to introduce the reclusive inside to its neighbor, the outside, without discarding its old character in the process. If people are often converting detached garages to additional living area in your area, keep that future owner's potential change of function in mind as you correct access. Then redo the kitchen cabinets and bath and paint and refinish the floors. If afterward you still have money for new appliances and a few desirable details, great--unless your neigborhood doesn't give a hoot about all the above but insists on new cabinets.

It would be extremely helpful if you would show the exact placement of all windows and doors. I can 'see' some doorways, of course, and only windows in photos.

Do you know which walls are loadbearing?

Also, where you have the new refrigerator, it appears you moved a doorway and a wall back, correct? Where did you move your hot water heater?

Thanks, Rosie for all of the excellent advice. I'll definitely start talking to some realtors and get some advice from them. From what I've seen so far, it seems that the residents generally want the best of both worlds: the old home charm and details with the functionality of a new one. Many of the neighbor's homes have been built up in the past few years, and many have maintained the general look of the original home. The neighborhood is close to a very upscale town, and it seems most of the people who move in to this area are those who are just priced out of the 2 mil.+ homes in that town. Many whom I know of are professionals: doctors, lawyers, as well as a lot of computer engineers/programmers.

One of the major concerns I have (though this would be for a different forum) is the garden. The back yard we can work with, it's large (for the area) and the lot is zoned for 2 residences so we'll make sure that whatever we add will still allow room for another unit to be built in the back. The front, however, I don't have a clue what to do with. My hubby's grandfather planted a mini orchard in his 30'x50' front yard...there are about 8 mature fruit trees which completely block the view of the house from the street. I don't think that sort of thing sells well in this neighborhood.

We'll have to play with the layout to get views from the kitchen and breakfast area as they currently look out at the driveway and neighbor's house (which is only about 10' away).

sherilynn, the doorways are in their exact placements on the layout. I didn't have a chance to measure windows when I was at the house last, but I will be back later this week and can work on that then.

I don't know which walls are load bearing, we'd have to figure out a way to get into the attic to be sure, but my husband believes it'll be one of the interior walls that run the length of the house (either the kitchen/dining room walls or the bedroom ones across the hall). The hot water heater would be in the same place it is now, but the closet has been made smaller. It would fit a tankless water heater. Other than taking some of that closet to fit the toilet in the bathroom, no walls or doors were moved.

Thanks for your help!

I would really caution strongly against any structural changes, especially "modernizing" ones. That would absolutely ruin the house for me and for many other people who are inclined to purchase a house built in 1920! If I need or want modernizing changes, I would rather make those decisions myself as a homeowner. The house is clearly charming in its own right, and I would work to bring out that charm with simple changes. I have purchased a house much like this one and have many friends who have done the same. In several cases, changes that had just been made by the seller in an attempt to update the home to make it more attractive actually made it much less so. One friend, in figuring out what she would offer for a house, calculated the cost of replacing the new bathroom fixtures and tile the seller had just installed. The choices were not in keeping with the rest of the house and, although they were not cheap, they had to go.

Remodeling the kitchen is obviously a must, but the changes should respect the period of the home, which the last remodel obviously did not. I would definitely keep the hutch and let its style dictate the style for the kitchen (simple inset white Shaker cabinets with beadboard backsplash, glass doors, and furniture details). Sure, replace the glass--and I agree that simple, clear glass is fine, unless you find some perfect period leaded glass--and build a new banquette to suit the style. I'd use orchidluvr's kitchen from the FKB as an inspiration for cabinets. Selection of materials will be very important in a house like this one. High quality cabinets are a must, and it is begging for soapstone counters.

To arrange the kitchen, I would move the range around like you did in the new drawing, but I would put the fridge where the pantry is now. As much as it would pain me to remove the built-in ironing board, I probably would just because it's in an inconvenient place (and I would remove it rather than cover it, because such things should be salvaged!). I would line that wall with shallow pantry cabinets.

Adding laundry to the space you indicate would be fine, especially if you could hide the washer and dryer behind cabinetry. Let it look like an extension of the kitchen rather than like a utility closet. Put in a soapstone utility sink, rather than a big ugly plastic or metal one.

Any house built in the 1920s has inherent charm that is difficult to replicate and easy to ruin with changes. In preparing it to sell, other than the kitchen remodel, I urge you to keep it simple. Fix things that are broken, spruce up things that are dingy, but don't change too much. Do it all with an eye toward restoration rather than remodeling.

I also vote for preserving every bit possible of the original features: You may even find you CAN move that wild little ironing board, if you have the right contractor. You'd be shocked: Peninsula? Granite? Yawn. If that's all that matters to the owner, they can buy a thousand houses. How many have a crazy, original, built-in ironing board? Yours! Sold, madame!

I'm also aggreeing with holligator. I'd caution you about making the house too grandiose. What you have is an adorable, authentic cottage. Master suites, overdone "decorator" bathrooms done on the cheap, over-the-top materials (or materials meant to look like them) can ruin a house (not that's what you're planning, I'm just looking at your house and seeing that it's SO sweet as it is!). I've seen way too many of them in my work -- where they're bragging about the "after" and I'm thinking "Jeez, you'd have been better off with the "before"".

That includes turning a 2 bed into a 3 bed, unless you need it for your family, in my opinion. But this is a very debatable point, and you may have very good reasons.

Clean, fixed, simple. The next owner will appreciate a low price and the ability to make their own changes, and you won't have sunk so much into it that you have to agonize over getting a certain price.

I happen to think those little banquette eating areas are charming, but if they don't work for your family, then they don't work. It appears to me that the old oak table support is there: you'd just need to have a table top cut, out of whatever material you like (maple? marble?) make some comfy cushions for seat bottoms and backs, some warm paint and that could be a nice area. Or if you take down the wall, keep as many of the existing features as you can.

I'd also vote for plain, clear glass.

Good luck, and enjoy it! Maybe it will grow on you!

Are there period photos? DH's Grandfather was 95. Did he live there a long time? Once rooms and/or features such as the ironing board cupboard and breakfast nook are relocated or removed, the space becomes Arts and Crafts-like rather than original. In some markets, original is highly valued. I am wondering about the rest of the house: how 'untouched' are the layout and design elements? That should guide the kitchen design.

Keep the elements that contribute to the period look and feel of the house. I see several things in the photos: window and door trim (it is repeated in other rooms), chair rail, and built-in hutch and ironing board cupboard (even if you change the use keep the cupboard-it would make a nice pull out pantry cupboard). It may not take much investment to get the hutch in good condition. The knobs don't look period, change those for something compatible with Arts and Crafts style. The breakfast nook is classic Arts and Crafts; I'd save that if at all possible.

The flooring needs to be replaced with tile or wood. You could do a really appealing Arts and Crafts tile backsplash without breaking the bank. I disagree about the soapstone laundry sink. It's too expensive if you want to keep costs low. The Kennebec Company has a Turn of the Century Kitchen that has the same window and door trim as the kitchen you are updating that would be a good guide. It has both painted and stained examples. Good Luck ;)

Here is a link that might be useful: Kennebec Turn of the Century Kitchens

holligator, we do plan to work with the house's original charm and character as well as structure for the most part. We're not planning on skimping quality for something that "looks modern". However, the kitchen is obviously NOT original to the house (with the exception of the ironing board and maybe the pantry). The bathroom is the same. It looks like it was remodeled around the same time. We are planning to keep the original 2 1/4" strip oak floor and will put that in throughout the addition (and probably kitchen too), as well as the original trim and as many of the built-ins as possible.

This: (simple inset white Shaker cabinets with beadboard backsplash, glass doors, and furniture details). is precisely what I have in mind for the look of the kitchen in general though I had considered doing subway tile rather than beadboard, but I think either could work--beadboard would give it a cottage-y feel. I don't know that I've seen any CA bungalow's with beadboard though, so I'd have to look into it. Thanks for the reference to orchidluvr's kitchen it's lovely.

So, would you put the fridge where the latest drawing above has it?.

growlery, I'd love to move the ironing board to my house (same period, and I've got a little shelf in my kitchen where it looks like someone took one out).

We're not planning to do this "on the cheap", because I think that many buyers in the area will pay for quality renovations that are done well. I wish we could afford to live in it ourselves, but it's out of our price range. Most of the houses I'm seeing in the neighborhood have had additions done.

I like your idea for the banquette. I'll have to see if the base it the original oak and if we can make some cushions for it.

cotehele, grr, the photos of the rest of the house are on my husband's computer with him at work. I'll try to post some later tonight. DH's grandfather lived there since the sixties (I think the kitchen and bath must have been done then since he never would have spent money for those things. He moved back to his hometown near Shanghai last year. I'll need to look into how valued the original features are in this market. From what I can tell, the layout is original. With our plan, we would not be changing the original layout of the house other than to add the master bedroom and make the original bathroom a little smaller. I don't think that would detract from the house if we maintain the old feel of the space. I have no doubt that he trims are original as are the built-ins (there's another hutch in the dining room). The oak floors also seem to be original. They're heavily stained, so we'll have to sand them and hopefully salvage most of them and match if there are parts that can't be saved. The doorknobs throughout the house are crystal glass ones like my grandparent's house used to have. I don't know if they were here originally or not, but they're charming.

Thanks for the link! I love the look of that kitchen.

I love houses from this era!

I agree with those who say to do as little as possible to mess with the total charm of a vintage house--holligator says it beautifully. I'd keep the built-ins; maybe try to open the breakfast booth to the kitchen, at least on one side; definitely replace the table-top with something more in keeping with the base.

I wouldn't turn the house into a three bedroom - to me, the result is one too-large bedroom and two that are too small.

When dh and I went house-hunting, the house we finally chose wasn't the largest or the most updated, but the one with the most quirky charm--to the extent that a mid-century ranch home can have quirky charm. ;-) Which is to say that in addition to not messing much with the house, the most I would do with those fruit trees is make sure they're properly pruned and cleaned up underneath. A new homeowner could easily remove them. They're not so easy to put back.

organic_lazlo would the result necessarily be a one too-large bedroom and two that are two small? The original bedrooms feel pretty spacious (one's about 12'10" square and the other's 12'10"x12') for the era. The new one would be somewhere around 12-14' x 15'. Seems fairly proportional to me. I think we will try to mainly prune and clean up the trees though. I know I'd love to have them if I were living there.

Anyways, putting 2 vs. 3 bedrooms aside, what about the kitchen layout? Anything I can do to make it better? Is the fridge better on the wall with the sink, or the left wall or somewhere else altogether?

I think that if you go with the fridge on the left, it would need to be counter depth, because of the placement of the door. I'm a little inclined to favor that over putting it on the wall with the sink because I tend to like as much work room as possible near my sink. The great thing about this house is that with two built in hutches, one in the breakfast nook and one in the dining room, you don't have to worry so much about dish storage in the kitchen itself. So those cabinets can be given over to cooking utensils and pantry. For that matter, if you put a counter depth fridge on the left, you could have pantry cabinets adjacent.

I couldn't think what bugged me most about the pictures of the kitchen until I looked a couple of times--it's the fact that the existing sink isn't centered on the window! :lol

Re views--my maternal grandmother's breakfast room overlooked the driveway and her neighbor's house. She had glass shelves mounted in the window, with various glass and china art objects on them.

Something I remember with fondness from my paternal grandmother's kitchen are small shelves--no more than 6" deep--on either side of the kitchen window. My best recollection is that they were curved on the edges. I don't know the exact provenance of that house, but odds are it was built in the 1920s or 30s.

The dimensions of the bedrooms as you describe them do sound OK. We did some house-hunting back in the spring (before the market really went south and we decided to re do the kitchen instead). I saw a few too many houses where the proportions were way off, so that's the perspective I'm coming from--that, and I'd rather have more spacious communal living spaces. I'd also been looking at our house this morning, trying to figure out what's original and what's the result of modification over the years (unfortunately, poorly executed modification in some cases, including the kitchen).

You're right! The sink should be centered. I wonder why they did it that way. I guess to fit the DW and sink in, but it looks like there would've been room for the DW on the other side.

We intentionally don't want to make the master suite to be monstrous...we want it to fit with the overall scale of the house. Whether or not a buyer would prefer bigger bedrooms in general, I don't know, but one of my favorite aspects of this house is the generously sized (for the scale of the home) common rooms.

I'm pretty sure the popcorn textured ceilings in this place are also not original. Ick. :)

Personally? I think a 42" fridge is overkill for this cottage. If that's limiting your choices as to where to put it, I think you could easily go smaller.

But then I'm choosing a 24". So everything is overkill for me!

I'd put a smaller fridge on the short end of the L where the stove is. From there you spoke out to the eating area, the sink, the other counter & cabinets.

I also think the lines of that tall cabinet between the sink and refrigerator are really beautiful. You might consider keeping that, or saving the doors and reusing them, either in this house or your own house, like to make a little free-standing cabinet. It would be nice to have a little ancestor tribute cupboard/wardrobe to remind you of the old house!

It sounds like you really know what a little gem you have. It's a shame that so many of us can't afford to live in the formerly modest neighborhoods our families lived in.

I honestly believe that someone will appreciate the house for what it is. Don't feel you have to turn it into something else just to sell it. Look at all the people here who see its potential. Others will too.

You're right, 42" is overkill. I think I'd need to stick with a 36" though if we're trying to attract a family.

I also love the tall cab. on the sink wall. We'll have to see if it can stay, but if not using it in our house is a great idea. Maybe we could work it into our kitchen or bathroom remodel.

Here are some possible fridge placements. I'm open to moving the range or sink too if that'd work better. This first one doesn't seem to work with either a CD or standard fridge. I feel like the range and fridge aren't really integrated into the kitchen.

Here's another option. Better integration, but doesn't leave much work space. I think if we go for this we'd need to get a 30" stove. There might be some room to slide the fridge closer to the wall. How much space is needed on the side of a fridge? I think I've left about 1' with an 18" counter in between and a 1' counter on the other side of the range. Not much space to work.

I think I like this one with the CD fridge the best so far. I haven't tried it on the sink wall again or on the short side of the L by the sink, so maybe that would be better. Another thing we could do is move the doorway on the range wall closer to the range, that'd give the entryway a more open feel.

I much prefer the fridge placement in this drawing, although I think a counter-depth would feel better there...

There's a decent workflow in that arrangement. I can see taking things out of the fridge, setting them next to the sink, washing them in the sink, chopping or whatever on the other side of the sink, and carrying them from there to the counter next to the stove (which I would leave as an L).

If you have the fridge over next to the range, you'd be running back and forth across a fairly wide kitchen, and you'd feel super cramped while standing at the stove, with almost no landing space for things off the cooktop or out of the oven. If I were shown the house, I'd look at that and think about lifting a heavy Thanksgiving turkey out of the oven and having no place to set it, and I'd just run out the front door. :)

If it's over to the left, that entry to the kitchen from the hallway feels cramped. I wouldn't want to move the doorway for all the reasons I stated above about changing too much.

With the fridge on the sink wall, you would also have that left wall available for an awesome pantry cabinet.

Yep. I see what you mean the first ones don't have enough space by the range (we'd have to do a 30" instead of 36" at the very minimum. Plus it'd be a little cramped by the range to have something as tall as a fridge right there.

Here's that layout with a CD fridge (I just saw I need to swap the sink and DW). Feels a lot better.

Here's what it'd look like if we moved that doorway a few inches, and if we did a CD there we'd have to move it even less. It'd be awkward trying to get into that pantry though.

and here is another alternative. This would probably have a full-height broom closet between the wall and the fridge.

In some of your drawings, the doorway to the utility room is uneven. Is that on purpose? I can't really picture what that would look like in 3-D. Would it be open all the way to the ceiling? In the photograph, it looks like a regular opening.

Here's the basic layout I was thinking of. I think this one gives the most efficient work flow, with plenty of counter space. The cabinet to the left is a shallow (12-14" deep) pantry cabinet. Both counter runs have an "L" to maximize counterspace, but I would stop the cabinets a few inches short of the door trim (it looks too cramped with the counter touching the trim in the photos). The fridge is counter-depth. The drawing isn't quite to scale, but you can get the idea of where things are...

It should be even. I'm not sure why it isn't in some of the drawings. I think when I changed the bathroom I forgot to make the laundry side match. If I do leave the walls as is, only about a 10" depth cabinet would fit on that wall. That should be fine though. I don't see a dishwasher in your plan. Should that go on the opposite side of the sink or between the sink and the fridge? I like this plan. I think it works pretty well. we'd lose the pretty pantry, but that was probably bound to happen anyways.

Here are some pics. of the house for those who asked earlier.

Front of house.

Front yard from street

From street (it's the one behind the trees that you can't see, not the one with green trim)

Living room from dining room

Bedroom.

The exterior photos are hugely helpful-- maybe even more helpful than the interiors.

I'm no architectural historian, but am I wrong in thinking that your grandfather's house used to look pretty much like the one next to it? And is in a neighborhood of bungalows?

If so, then I'd focus your efforts on curb appeal -- Or is this all stuff you already know?

For example, a new door and simple sidelights, remove the wooden grille over the front window, cut the trees back so someone driving by can see the house (many people never get out of the car), replace or remove those bushes by the entrance. In general, bump up the bungalow credentials, tone down the 70s. Look to the neighbors as a guide for clues as to the kind of features the house used to have.

But grab them with the "Honey, we're HOME! We've GOT to have this house!" by the time they've even walked in. If they're still making up their minds by the time they're looking at the 6 burner stove, they're thinking of 12 other houses that might be cheaper, or the schools might be better, or her mother liked, or had room for his big TV.

I don't think you have to go crazy replacing all the windows (although the next owner, IF they're a bungalow fan, would).

You might consider buying or borrowing some of those pieces of salvage stained glass windows and hanging or perching (or is this California? perching would be bad) them in some of the windows, to lend more atmosphere. You generally want to leave windows wide open to let in as much light as possible, but a couple of pieces, enough to suggest a tone, wouldn't hurt.

But let me say again, what a charming house! Beautiful floors, lovely fireplace. And tons of potential.

Wonderful house!!

I wonder if you remove the breakfast nook the way you have it shown in your drawing with the peninsula, but instead of the peninsula put the sink and DW agains the wall and window that is there. Then put the stove further down the line close to before the current sink placement and then put an island across from it with a prep sink. Don't put anything on the wall where you've currently placed the stove. Would you have a space for some stools at the island then and still walk around space?

I think then you'd have a clean-up area close to dining and out of cooking areas and across from DW the lovely built-in where dishes and such could go.

You'd also have a cooking area that is out of the normal traffic flow.

It IS a charming house with tons of potential! I love so much about it! But honestly, seeing it all makes me feel even more strongly that you should leave it two bedrooms and focus your remodeling efforts elsewhere in the house. As growlery said, a focus on improving curb appeal is essential. I wouldn't have a clue what a great house I'd find inside from looking at the front of that one. I think doing more of a restoration and less of a remodeling would be a better financial move, too. Adding that third bedroom and second bath will cost a heck of a lot more than replacing the windows, painting, and landscaping, and I don't think you'll see enough of a difference in selling price to justify it. Size-wise, now, it's the perfect home for a professional couple with one child or no children or for retirees. In my part of the country, those are the people who are looking in neighborhoods like that for houses like that. The families with more kids tend to stick to the newer subdivisions. Maybe it's different where you are, but I'd really worry about targeting the wrong audience with your remodel plans.

Anyway, back to the kitchen plan. In my little drawing, that is supposed to be a DW between the fridge and sink. Without all the actual dimensions of the room, I was just guessing that it would fit there. I think that the sink should be either centered exactly or way off center to look more intentional. The way it is in the old kitchen looks like there was a measuring accident. So, whichever side would allow the sink to be centered is where I would put the DW.

Also, judging from the photo below, I was estimating you could get in at least a 12-14" deep pantry cab on that ironing board wall. Unless that is a really small ironing board resting there or the camera angle is really weird, I can't see how you'd be limited to 10". A 12" or 14" pantry is extremely functional. A 10" pantry would be much less so.

growlery, we're definitely going to try to lose the 70s look and do the things you mentioned, replace the front door and sidelights, get rid of the wooden grille, cut the trees back, paint the exterior etc. The house did probably look more like the one next door. The rest of the neighborhood is a mix of ranchers, bungalows, ugly 70s apartment buildings, and a few spanish style houses. The salvaged stained glass idea is a great one. If I can find a few I'd do that and use them in my kitchen remodel when we get around to it.

lyfia, thanks! I'm not sure if there'd be room to put in an island, and I'm a little concerned that it would change the feel of the house. However, it would be convenient to have the sink where you mentioned. Where it is now I can't imagine someone unloading the dishwasher and walking to the hutch to store them. It seems like most people suggest keeping the banquette though. We'll have to see when we talk to a realtor.

holligator, yeah, you really wouldn't guess from the outside what's in. We're going to talk to a local realtor or to and see what the target buyer should be. My impression in the area is that even a small family is looking for 2 bathrooms. There aren't a whole lot of new subdivisions around unless you're willing to commute 45+ min., but I think we'll talk to some realtors to see what would bring the greatest cost return/appeal to buyers.

I'm pretty sure the DW will fit fine between the sink and fridge and that wall on the left does look like more than a foot long. I'm going to the house today to do some more measurements because I'm sure some of them are off, so we'll see.

I can understand worrying about the island not matching, but I do think an island in a style that is more table like would fit the style better than a peninsula. Looking at updated period houses that have an island like that it always seems to me like it fits better and also makes the function really good. A great balance imo. Though I can see if space is an issue.

As for the banquet it doesn't seem original to the house, and being that there isn't that nice of a view out the window, I'm not sure if I would keep the banquet. I wonder what that area would have been originally.

You ask a simple question about where to put a refrigerator, and suddenly get advice on what to do with the whole house!

You're taking it really well, rahime.

I think it's hard designing for fictional people. I had to re-do an apartment, and was making choices (mostly ones a fictional tenant couldn't destroy!). Then a family member said he wanted to rent it. And the choices became easier, and nicer. If your family were staying in this house, you might make different choices than the ones you're making now -- not better worse worse, just different.

And the new owner is paying for YOUR choices, not theirs. So my feeling is, don't make TOO many of their choices for them. Give them a fair price, one that reflects the ability to do their own work, and have more months of your life as your own, not in a construction project.

I bought my own house in an as-is state. I couldn't have afforded it, nor would I have wanted it, if someone had added $75,000 worth of improvements to it, although the neighborhood certainly would have supported it. And my house is a 2 bedroom. So now you know all my prejudices!

Do what you think is right, just don't get talked into doing more than you think is appropriate.

Houses ARE selling. Even now. Don't despair.

Good luck!

Thanks growlery! I was planning on posting on the remodeling forum and the buying and selling one to ask about the rest of the house, but I've gotten so many helpful opinions here that I'm not sure I need to. I will probably ask them some ?s, but we've got a lot to work with now. I'm not afraid to hear people's advice. I appreciate it because of what you said...remodeling for fictional people is difficult. I actually had a talk with my husband yesterday about this very thing and thought of a few people we know who are looking for homes in the area. We'll at least talk to them (as well as some realtors) about what they're looking for....and maybe one of them would be interested in the house (although I think both are looking for a little bigger place).

I don't know where we'll end up with the decision whether or not to add on. I was leaning against it and then I drove around the neighborhood yesterday (after taking some more measurements in the house) and noticed that at least 2/3 of the neighborhood has been built up including the neighbors on either side. My husband's family has sold a few houses in the area in as-is condition (after being rentals for 20+ yrs. there were some pretty rough ones...one was an Eichler which didn't need any more space, but probably would have sold much faster/higher if it had been a little restored), so we know about that end of things too. We do see this and an investment opportunity though, partly because the house is in a nicer neighborhood, and we don't mind working hard on it if we can earn a little money on the back end. This house isn't too bad off even though it's had 40 yrs of neglect (you should've seen it last year before my MIL had it painted inside and had the 60s carpet ripped out...whew).

We're having a home inspection today and will get two appraisal reports in on Monday, so we'll see what those reveal. I was a little discouraged yesterday because two comparable homes in the area that are on the market had very low asking prices, but after driving past them they were just outside of the nice neighborhood and the pictures posted on the real estate website were extremely gracious compared to the rest of the house.

BTW, holligator, my drawings of that wall and the placement of the door were completely off...not sure how I managed that. I'll re-do it this afternoon and post it up. I think there's actually over 30" on that wall and only about 50 some on the wall we want to put the stove on. Might change things.

So far I like your July 16th version the best. Would like to see it opened up to the banquette if not too much trouble. Perhaps with a pony wall instead of a full wall so that you can keep the seating there (I see the reasoning for that), but have a view into the banquette from the kitchen. Would work great for a family with parent in kitchen and kids eating at banquette or doing HW. This house has loads of charm and potential as there is lots of nice trim, hardwood floors, etc. I'd probably skip inset cabinets as they cost more. A full overly with simple shaker door would also look nice and in keeping with the style of the house.

Today we spent about 9 hrs. at the house taking more accurate measurements, talking to the home inspector, and discussing options for what needs to be done. I'm frustrated though because my original drawings for the kitchen were WAY off on the wall that we were planning to put the range on. The rest of the room was right, but I somehow put the doorway in the wrong spot. I've fixed my drawing, but now I'm wondering if we're going to be able to come up with a good kitchen design without moving the door.

What do you think? You need space on either side of the range, right? How much? Should we put the range on the sink wall and move the sink to one of the shorter walls?

Oh, this is so frustrating. At least the home inspection went pretty well. There are termites in the porch (probably elsewhere too) and dry rot in the bathroom and kitchen and lots of things to be fixed, but we pretty much expected that. The good news is that the foundation is solid and it looks like the structure's in pretty good shape in general.

I hate to break it to you, but I think your measurements are still pretty far off. There's no possible way that 4'6.5" is the correct distance from the top left corner to the door. I'll explain why.

First, take a look at these pics:

The dishwasher looks like a standard size (i.e., 24 inches wide). Going with that assumption, that would make the squares in the floor in front of it approximately 9" or 10", right? In the corner with the ironing board, there are between two and three squares of floor before you get to the door. So, you're looking at a wall that is somewhere between 18" and 30" long (i.e., between 1'6" and 2'6"). It's hard to tell where the door trim starts, but the trims on the other doors looks to be around 5" wide, with a maximum of 6-8" wide. So, we're talking about possibly as much as 38" (3'2") between the corner and the door opening, but probably less.

Since there are no pics of that whole wall or the door on it, we have to assume that the door opening is about the same as the other door openings in the room. The others look like they are a little more than three floor squares wide, for a maximum width of around 33"-36", which is not an uncommon size.

Assuming that your measurement of the room width at 12'9" is accurate--it is at least close to the first measurement of 13'1"--you must have more room than you think on that stove wall.

Do the math . . . 38" (max from corner to door opening) + 36" (max door opening) = 74" (max distance from corner to right side of door opening. If the room width is 153" (or 157" from original diagram), you are left with at least 79" (6'7"), and probably more.

So, assuming that your DW is a standard size (since that's what I based the size of the floor tile on, and the floor tile size was the basis for all my other estimates), you have at least a foot more on that stove wall than the latest drawing indicates. Time to go back and measure again!

Holligator might be hyperventilating. The door is swung all the way back against the wall, so you're seeing the knob edge of the door, not the frame/hinge edge. The two wall lengths add up to 10', leaving 2'9" for the door, after subtracting from the room size. To me it all adds up, but then I'm using builder's math. If you look at the original photo, you'll see the knob, and ascertain how the door is swung all the way back. It's the other side of the door that's in view, the door is open, not closed; I'm running out of ways to convey the same meaning. IOW, I think you read the picture incorrectly. IMO, of course. now, I'm hyper.
Casey

Oh, OK!! I thought what we were seeing was the door just a bit ajar. Tough to tell without pics of the whole wall, but your explanation makes a lot more sense.

So, rahime, ignore all that I wrote above. ;) I should know better than to try to do math that early in the morning!

Yes, it IS frustrating.

I bought an as-is 200 year old house!

But hey, you've got people across the country measuring from FLOOR TILES for you. That's pretty cool.

You definitely sound like you're doing all the right things, talking to experts, beating the bush for people generally looking. People can definitely be passively pushed into the market who aren't even close to talking to a Realtor, particularly by the hope of a charming house in a good neighborhood at a good price that they can put their stamp on.

If you're over there and working/cleaning, people may stop by. Or invite people by. Neighbors are always curious, and the inside is very different from the outside. Ask THEM about the kitchen! Who knows what this will shake loose.

(I have nothing to do with the real estate industry, by the way, but my work used to involve the industry peripherally.)

I'm off to look at faucets now.

Good luck!

holligator, no worries, Casey's right, the door's all the way open. I'm pretty sure these measurements aren't more than an eighth inch off, 'cause my husband did them and after all the building he's done he's much more precise than I am. I think you're right on about the approx. size of the floor squares though. :) And I thoroughly appreciate you're pointing out what looked like another error. I can't afford to make those kinds of mistakes in this project!

growlery, isn't the GW kitchen community amazing! I'm so appreciative of everyone's willingness to take the time to help and put in their thoughts. Your idea about getting the opinion of neighbors is a great one...so simple, but I probably wouldn't have thought about it!

Thanks!!

Love the look of your house!
Keep the buffet, the banquet (update of course)with storage under the benches
There's possibly wood floors under the kitchen floor, how hard that will be to ripout and redo could be an issue.
I like your first option which was to move the doorway so that you can put Ref and a pantry on the one wall, make the range wall longer.
Move the sink to the left to center it on the window.
You could go with a smaller window to gain cabinet space if necessary. It's the back of the house so I don't think it would be sacrificing the "look".
You know you've got to update some of the doors (the originals must have been changed at some point). It would be great if they were still around somewhere.
Don't go too crazy with the kitchen so that you can embellish the rest of the house. Maybe you don't need to go inset like the buffet just to get the "look"
Add cabinetry to both sides of the fireplace under the windows. Update the fireplace with tile on that brick and carry the tile into the backsplash in the kitchen. Maybe at the buffet area too.
Also the beadboard can be incorporated into the banquet somewhere
For curb appeal you need to change some of the landscaping so you can see the beauty of that gem of a house!
With a few minor changes you should have no trouble selling.
People love that 1920s look
If you stack the washer dryer you might have room for a bootbench/potting bench /sink in the laundry/mudroom. (People love storage)

Since you are asking what I would do with this kitchen, LOL..

Going around the room clockwise from the ironing closet. I would put shelves in the ironing board closet and use it for shallow items like cans/spices etc. But keep it there. My aunt did that with hers and found it REALLY convenient. Then in the corner put a broom closet opening toward pantry, 12-15" wide and 24" deep, and then fridge with a side panel to make it look more built-in. Kind of like make the broom closet/fridge visually one unit. Don't move the door. On the other side of the door put a 30" range with 2' on the door side and 1' on the vent side or center it with 18" on both sides. I know that vent hood is original (my grandmother has the same thing in her 1920's house), but it really is in an inconvenient place so I would probably replace or move it over to the stove's new location. Then put in uppers and maybe a micro-hood.

I would open up the kitchen to the banquet with a half wall and small shelf on top (keep the wood trim to possibly reuse elsewhere, maybe addition?). Like others said replace the glass in the hutch to clear glass. Replace that table top with a nice wooden piece and add some colorful pillows. Ditch the 70's uppers. Replace the base cabinets with a simple recessed flat panel with partial overlay cabinet to match the pantry and ironing board cabinet style and have lots of modern pull-outs, etc. Add an upper between the banquet and kitchen on the outside wall. I think a 30" brought down to the counter (and up to the ceiling) would balance nicely with the pantry cabinet on the other side of the sink. But for more counter space I would probably just keep it an upper and put brackets under similar to the banquet hutch. Center the sink on the window and put the dishwasher to the right. For me I would put in a cast iron sink with integrated drainboard and backsplash, but to sell I would put in a stainless sink or new farmsink. Keep the pantry.

If the microwave isn't above the stove then I would put it in the laundry room. I would try to match the new cabinet style to the pantry and ironing board cabinet style. It's classic and fits well with the house. Just give them a good scrub and fresh coat of paint. I would also add a couple of pull out shelves in the pantry to make it more functional.

I would probably go with a vintage look linoleum/marmoleum for the floor and extend into the laundry. I personally love the black and white check. The banquet area I think would look better with wood though. Countertops, for me, I would go with stainless or zinc, but to sell I would go with laminent, or if going with a new farmsink, stone. For backsplash I would put in subway tile with a black trim tile. Then, I would paint the kitchen and banquet a cheery color, pale yellow is MY favorite. And lastly add some vintage lighting and a nice piece of art on the banquet's dining room wall.

Anyway, that's what I would do. You're probably sorry you asked, LOL!

mom2lilenj, Sorry I just saw this today, I haven't had much time on GW lately.

I just wanted to say that I love you're ideas.

We're running into some issues with the house (sometimes doing things with family gets a bit messy) and aren't sure if the project's going to go forward or if we'll just put it on the market as is.