Here's the overhead for the layout gurus to check out.

What's the aisle width between the island and the frig wall of cabinetry? It looks like it's tight. I'm imagining bruised hips while running for those last minute additions to the pan.

And the range and the island - remembering that ranges are around 27/28" deep?

My first thought on your glass cabs is the sink wall. It looks like their glass panes would echo the shape of your windows, which can be a great look. Then the stove could be the feature of its own wall.

What room are you looking from as you gaze at the sink wall, though? Probably those double doors don't lead to the laundry room, which for a lot of people would require drastic editing to a "design picture" of what's being stored. If that's you, after the initial delight calmed down, would you be happy walking across the kitchen to get a sippy cup?

Maybe carefully listing what would go in each glass cabinet on the stove wall and on the sink wall, and then where the rest of the stuff would go, would help you decide.

I agree that it looks tight by the refrigerator area and in front of the oven doors. I don't know if you will be able to bend over comfortably with the oven door open.

Thanks so much for reponding everyone! And a huge thank you to laxsupermom for including the picture in the post. I tried for hours to do that last night and kept getting a message that it couldn't be included because it was larger than 61 kb.

It seems like everyone is echoing my concerns over the walkways around the island. Our current walkspace is as follows:

Island-Range: 49"
Island-Sink: 35"
Island-Ref. Wall: 33"

We've never had a space issue before, but it's generally only me in the kitchen while cooking and we haven't entertained in it yet, and we didn't have any seating at the island. Also, the refrigerator is currently on the range wall, all the way to the left. We decided to move it because we wanted a larger range and mantle hood and there wasn't much room left for cabinet space. I think I will like the refrigerator in the new location (closer to the table and deck area, removed from cooking space and closer to bar space), but maybe it was a bad idea since it closes up that space too much. In the new layout, the walkspace would be as follows:

Island-Range: 42"
Island-Sink: 42"
Island-Ref. Wall: 39-36"

The pantries on either sides of the refrigerator are currently 30" wide by 15" deep, so I'm not sure we can reduce them any and still have them function well for food storage (e.g., cereal boxes). We had thought of moving the refrigerator all the way to the end farthest from the island, but I love the symmetry of that wall with the refrigerator in the center.

Rosie: The arch doorway closest to the range leads into the mudroom and beyond that the only bathroom on the first floor. The mudroom also leads to the garage. The arch doorway closest to the refrigerator wall leads to the dining rooms, which we never use. I think it's a great idea for us to go through all of our kitchen items and determine where they will go in the new kitchen. Thanks for the homework!

Any other design or aesthetic issues? Does the overall look and feel seem ok? Any suggestions on door style? I think that's our next step.

Thanks again for the thoughts and concerns so far!! My husband and I really appreciate your willingness to share your expertise with us!

Stool with a walk-by behind it TO A BLANK WALL = 44", to something like the pantry should be more like 54" to 60" to allow the door to open, person to stand in front of it, person to be seated behind the person at the pantry.

The 3-d view is so distorted vs. floorplan, its very difficult to tell - cause the one corner looks like less than 18" clearance and that you could smack it with the ref door. Be more inclined towards 30 x 60 island height table or a big butcher block.

Stylistically - because of the arches, I wonder if you have thought about changing to either contemporary cabinets or slightly spanish in place of english pantry? I don't think the formalization fits the room well - hard to tell without seeing the actual room and knowing where those arches go.

Ok, so it looks like I need to go back to the KD and talk about the walkway issues. I've asked before and he's always told me it wasn't ideal but was sufficient, but it sounds like I need to revisit that with him.

As for the style of the house, I believe it's called a "transitional colonial" -- basically a typical New England colonial that is more open. The downstairs is probably more formal than I would ideally want it to be. One of the archways opens to a pretty formal dining room (Ethan Allen furniture and oriental rug that we purchased before I had come to understand my own personal style) and a formal entry way, both with wainscoting and pretty heavy moldings. I'm not sure where the archways fit in, but I can see that they would lead people to consider a spanish style architecture!

Any thoughts or opinions on the bar wall? Our KD said the wine cooler could be recessed into the wall so that it could fit without interfering with the flow through the archways, so we'd like to include it and I think that's a pretty good place for it, but I'm not sure what should go around it. I had tried to find a piece of furniture that had a wine cooler incorporated into it but I wasn't able to find anything. Does anyone know if such a thing exists? I would like it to look furniture-like (something Potterybarn-ish?). Should I just have something custom made? Should this area match the rest of the creamy kitchen, or should it match the medium brown/cherry table that we want to get for the eat-in-kitchen area?

Again, thanks for your help!

I feel like I must be missing something...either in the description, the plan, or the comments, because the biggest problem that jumps out at me isn't only aisle sizes, but the location of the fridge in relation to the stove and sink because of the island. (AKA Barrier island) Are these elements all in these locations currently? Without a sink in the island, I can't imagine the running around necessary to get things from the fridge to the sink, and retrieve ingredients from the fridge while in the throes of cooking...and all of this will be made much more difficult, I'm afraid with loose bar stools and seated people in the way.

The only cosmetic suggestion I have is to let the window have some more space around it...Back the upper cabinets off 6 inches or so, so the window isn't pinched in between. Otherwise, for appearance, I think it's GORGEOUS.

rhome410: The refrigerator is currently to the left of the range, but otherwise everything is exactly the same. We were only moving the refrigerator because we want to go from a 30" to a 36" range with a hood and it was too crowded on that wall with the refrigerator. I do most of my prep work at the island, so I was thinking that it wouldn't make a different whether I had to walk around the island to the right or the left. I hadn't really thought about it vis-a-vis the range. I'm not sure where else we could move it to. Any suggestions? Should we just stick with a 30" range? And thanks for the suggestion re: the cabinets around the window. I didn't catch that before, but I totally agree with you!

I think you'll be unpleasantly surprised about how much more trouble it is to get to the fridge from the stove or prep area in the new location. One way you trip over stools and people, and the other, you're scooting past a potentially open DW door, and whomever might be doing some dishes cleanup, or unloading the DW and setting the table.

You mentioned 2 young boys...If they're too young to pitch in now, hopefully, that will change, and their bodies (and those of their friends) in the kitchen will get much bigger, making aisles seem smaller and any traffic tie-ups seem tighter and more frequent.

Going from a 30" to a 36" range will only make 3" difference in each direction...Is it really that much difference? Is it already crowded now? If I take your 155" of range wall and subtract 24" for the sink run intersection, then 36" for fridge and 36" for range, I have 59" left, which is 29.5 for each side, plus the corner on the right. I understand that you'll lose the grandeur of that stove wall that you have with all the symmetry, but there could be a way to adjust the counter spaces to each side so it looks lovely and gives you better function, too.

rhome410: Thanks for your insight -- I really appreciate it! This is our first house, so I really don't have any real experience with a bad/awkward layout.

Right now we have a 30" microwave over a 30" range, with a 24" cabinet to the left next to the refrig. and 35" of cabinet space to the right. My understanding from our KD is that the mantle hood over the 36" range would reduce the side cabinets to 10-12" each, which wouldn't be all that useful. I think the main culprit is the mantle hood, but I really love them so I'm really trying to make it work. Also, I wasn't crazy about the fact that the refrig. would jut out, then the small cabinet would be recessed, and then the hood would jut out again, etc. I thought it looked too busy for such a small wall, at least on paper. I have a hard time visualizing everything, which is why I spend hours every night searching this site to find examples!! There's a goldmine of information here and I can't tell you how much I appreciate having access to it, and people like all of you! Thanks!

Handsome as the stove wall is as drawn, and much as I personally prefer 36" stoves over 30", I agree strongly with Rhome that jogging around the island and dodging stools is a significant problem that needs to not be built in. It's likely that you'd end up cooking at the stove end, anyway, making around that end a natural route.

I'd been wondering, anyway, where you intend to eat. You have 3 places planned for dining in one area (divided visually only). Do you expect to seat 4 people at the island each day? Or do you just need a seat or two for people who want to sit and chat with you now and then? Would the window bay be better fitted out for chatting over cocktails and watching fireflies, or is that where you'll be breakfasting? How do you want to live in these areas? I personally hate moving chairs to clean floors (do my own, sadly), and underused chairs or stools would be gone in no time.

rosie: Thanks for your insight! I'm embarassed to say that we've never used our dining room, so my guess is that we will continue to eat at the eat-in-kitchen table. Our main reason for wanting seating at the island is so that friends can sit there and chat while I get some light food ready when we host some small gatherings, and so my sons can hang out and tell me about their day while I make dinner (wishful thinking?!?). And it would come in handy as an extra scrapbooking space when I host! So I do think it will get some use, but certainly not daily.

OK...I'm very late to the game but I started this critique Monday and never got back to it (too much sun & fun on vacation!) Here it is....

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Right now, don't worry about what's stored where. Your first step is to get a functional layout. From there we can work on storage (see the "Read Me" thread for storage planning) and the aesthetics. It's a rare kitchen that we can't work in glass cabinets and other niceties.

For now, let's talk about your proposed layout.

First, dimensions need to be wall dimensions, not cabinet dimensions.

Also, how wide are each of the doorways? What is the distance b/w them? The distance b/w the doorways and the walls/corrners?

How wide is the window? What is the distance b/w it and the corner?

Two things jump out at me immediately...the location of the range and the island's location & the associated aisles.

• First, the range. Your range is unprotected and is right in the middle of the path b/w the garage/mudroom/PR and the rest of the house. Of all appliances, the range should be the most protected as that's where you'll be working with hot food, boiling water, frying/grease, flames, etc. ...not the sorts of things you want people going by and bumping you while you're working with them...especially young children!

  The reason it's such a major path is that it will be a tight fit b/w the island & refrigerator and there's a good chance people will gravitate to the aisles that are wider...and that means in front of the range. YMMV...

  Here's what the current traffic will look like (red lines are kitchen work, other colors are traffic in/out/through the kitchen):

• Next, the island. As RHome410 mentioned, the island is now a "barrier island" b/w the sink and range as well as, to a lesser extent, b/w the range & refrigerator. B/c of its location, it will be in the way of any prepping. Normally, I'd say add a prep sink on the refrigerator side of the island but b/c of the seats & the very narrow aisles, that won't work in your case.

For aisles, here's what you should ideally have at a minimum:

• B/w sink & island: 42"

• B/w island & refrigerator (in this case an angle & end seat): 48" with no seats, 54" - 60" with seats

• B/w range and island (keeping in mind the range sticks out several inches more than the counters on either side): 42" if there's little or no traffic, 54" - 60" with traffic (b/c it's a cooking appliance). [No seats should back to it (or to an oven, for that matter).]

• B/w doorways & seats: 42" if never/rarely used, 48" - 60" if used quite a bit

• B/w walls & seats: 36" if no traffic passes behind the seats (i.e., a dead-end) and 48" - 60" if traffic does pass behind the seats

  [With a doorway, I think there's some wiggle room if the doorway space can be used as part of the aisle space, that's why...

Admittedly a 36" corner range would chew up a lot of space, but here's another thought. This is a quick & dirty sketch that would need refinement if you went this route.

The tall pantry & frig get balanced out on the other wall with a glass fronted dish hutch. I didn't add the mantel hood vent to the pic, but the tall gets balanced there, too. The island seating no longer has cabs behind so that aisle way opens up. You get fewer cabs with the space using corner range, so you'd have to make sure there'd be enough room for your stuff.

I like laxsupermom's version - except I'm tempted to reverse the hutch and ref and move the dw to the other side of the sink. Pantry and hutches can be to the counter wall cabinets above drawer storage. Just remember to spec a little drawer on the bottom or perhaps garages with lift up doors or a combination of both.

I would like buelh's with the ref in place of the 42" run near the sink. That might also allow for the pair of 14" deep pantries flanking a 16" deep one. But I would also do two stools on the end of a half circle overhang so the island was only 3 feet deep.

The other thing that I think could work is a peninsula w/seating. With a peninsula, you can still have the tall, less deep pantry cabs near the arches

I like some of Buehl's (3 or 4, but with a normally shaped island) but would still have to put the fridge where the pantry is...It's just too far to navigate seating to get to the fridge while hurriedly trying to cook dinner and get it on the table...and I prefer to keep dish storage by the dw, sink, and close to dining where she has the 42" run.

WOW! Thank you so much for the ideas buehl, rhome410, bmorepanic and laxsupermom! I'll have to print this all out and really study it over the weekend -- it's a lot of information for a newbie like me to wrap my head around!

I really appreciate you all taking the time to offer your thoughts and expertise!!! I can't believe how generous people on this site are to complete strangers . . . it's refreshing!

I am a sucker for symmetry so I like the appearance of each run of cabinets on its own.

Do you need all three doorways in the lower wall? Could one of them be eliminated?

Do you need seating for four at the island when there is seating adjacent at the table--still really within visual contact with the workspace?

palimpsest: I like symmetry too! The problem is that it doesn't seem to work well with the "best" layout for our kitchen, but I keep trying!

Unfortunately, we do need all three doorways. The one closest to the range is the only entrance from the garage, the next one leads into the dining room (otherwise you would have to walk into the foyer and around and then into the dining room), and the third one leads into the foyer. Not easy to work with, but necessary I think.

I do not, however, need seating for four at the island. Two would be nice since I have two sons. But you gave me a "lightbulb moment" -- would it work to put two seats at the far end of the island opposite the range (the short way), and then one (or two?) in front of the two doorways leading into the mudroom and dining room? There would be 57" between the island and that small wall between the doorways.

Just remember, you need 24" of linear space for each seat (i.e., 48" for two seats).

How do you figure you have 57" with a 48" deep island?

25.5" sink run + 42" aisle + 48" island = 115.5"

155" - 115.5" = 39.5" for the aisle b/w the wall and island.

Even if you narrow the aisle b/w the sink & island to 36", you only have 45.5" for the aisle. And this is assuming no refrigerator or anything else on that wall near the island (you should have at least 42" b/w the refrigerator & island...).

Are you looking at Laxsupermom's layout? If so, keep in mind that a 30" corner oven takes 48" off of each wall...a 36" range will take even more...say 51" to 54". I would also be sure to have an 18" overhang on the island across from the sink so people sitting at the island are not splashed. The other thing is that with this layout you no longer have a big expanse of work space for projects like baking/cooking, homework, crafts, wrapping gifts, etc. You will not be able to scrapbook on the island since the water will be too close. (I scrapbook as well and water does not mix with photos...all food & drinks are banned from the scrapbook work area even when it's a group of us!)

Have you thought about where your MW will be? You might be able to put it in the island...either a MW drawer or a counter one on a shelf below the counter. You could also put one under one of the upper cabinets mounted on a shelf. The cabinets above it would have to be shorter to fit the MW. (You also might want to make them somewhat deeper to "match" the deeper MW shelf. The shelf will have to be 18" to 24" deep and 18" to 24" wide, depending on the MW.)

I think that your original layout is a good one except for the island. My suggestion would be to lose the island entirely. Put in a longish freestanding butcher block/prep area there, about 18" deep.

Build a banquette in the window where you currently have the round table. Build in seating on three sides, have a narrow rectangular table made (22" by about 84") and you're going to end up with a lot more seating, a lot of storage under the banquette seats and a much more spacious feeling in your work area.

Good Luck ! :)