Hmm, it sounds like the primer and the ceiling were incompatible. Reminds me of a friend telling me about how his whole kitchen ceiling came down in big gooey wet sheets. Ick! Bleah! Phooey!

Yes I've used the spray, and it works. We used it to cover up the infamous "top of the Christmas tree" scrape my ex put on the LR ceiling. But there may be some color difference; there was when we did it. Also, from having used it I'd say you're going to have a big problem making it match in density. Finally I'm not so sure it won't continue to peel since it's letting go now. I'm afraid that might not be a good answer for you, but if you're really opposed to re-doing the ceiling, then you don't have much to lose in trying it first.

Your popcorn almost surely doesn't contain asbestos if it's been there since 1984, so that's a very good thing. Popcorn ceilings are now very unpopular when it comes to resale, I'm sure you know.

I'd scrape it off -- a bathroom is such a small area to do and this would help to update it. I think you can either spray on a different texture, or trowel plaster on it... though I'm sure you'll hear from some here who have done the procedure. I'm sure your local hardware store could advise, too.

I agree that it would probably be best just to get it off while you're in the midst of work in there anyway. It may come off fairly easily. Is the reaction occurring all over the ceiling, or just above what looks to be the shower?

In a small area like a bathroom I would definitely see this as an opportunity to scrape the popcorn off. As you already know, once the popcorn is wet it comes off easily. You can then texture the ceiling and paint.

It's doing this is several spots, but not the whole ceiling. DH thinks now that the primer is dry, it's not going to crack anymore. We'll see :) I knew y'all would say to go ahead and scrape it. We don't know how to re-texture the ceiling though. Does anyone have pictures of what a ceiling without popcorn texture looks like?

Laurie

Did he clean the ceiling somehow beforehand? They get quite dusty, not to mention all the residues from body products and such. They may even have some dampness still within the materials.

Laurie, what is under there is just wallboard. If there are seams, they are taped and may not be done too smoothly because they knew it would cover up with texture. But if this is just a small bathroom there may not be any seams. My understanding (I haven't done this) is that you just use joint compound to smooth out any lumps or bumps, then sand it down smooth when that's done, then paint it. A mater bedroom might be pretty threatening, but I suspect a small bathroom won't be all that bad.

I'd scrape it, then if it's got bad taping I'd ask at the hardware store what texture can be sprayed back on it. I've sprayed the popcorn ceiling and have watched my carpenter friend spray wall texture. They sell aerosol cans of the texture stuff -- so it's like flocking your own tree back in the old days. Or, use joint compound and a trowel. Call the hardware store and ask them. I honestly don't think the job will be all that bad for a little bathroom. Even if it causes you a few hours delay, it's better to take care of it and be proud of your whole update job than to wonder if it's going to continue to disintegrate, yes?

Is there any plumbing in the ceiling above? It's hard to tell from a pic, but it looks like it's a bit discolored around the peeling. I'm just wondering if there is a leak over the ceiling somewhere. I don't think steam from the tub would cause that...I think it would need to be direct contact.

It does look like it's around water marks!

I thought the same, which is why I asked it the cracking was widespread or limited to a specific area. To be on the safe side, perhaps the problem needs a little more examination. It would be a shame to finish the ceiling only to have the damages reappear again.

No, there's no plumbing up there. He actually ran out of primer and the new one he got was a different color than the old one, so that's why you're seeing two different colors. I don't think there's any way to clean the ceiling first without knocking the texture off, so I can imagine the dust that was up there after 23 years. He just finishing mudding and sanding the walls, so I know he knows how to do that, but it just seems like it would be so hard doing that on the ceiling. I think he's going to try scraping the cracked parts off and spray it with the stuff oceanna mentioned. If that doesn't work, I guess we'll have no choice but to scrape it all off. I'd still love to see pictures if anyone has any.

Laurie

I wonder if the water in the primer (assuming you used a water based primer) caused the popcorn to start to loosen from the ceiling. I know when you take popcorn down, the first thing you do is spray it down with water. I wonder if you can scrape off whatever is loose, patch with more popcorn and then prime it with an oil based primer like kilz. No clue if I am talking out my butt on this one though ;).

I do know that in my 120 year old house we ran into serious problems trying to prime the walls with a water based primer. Who knows what was on there before but it caused whatever it was to bubble. It was a mess, so we scraped off the bubbles, primed with kilz first and then patched so that the water in joint compound wouldn't cause more bubbling. Everything on top of the kilz was/is fine.

The popcorn stuff is water based and that's how you remove it - by wetting it. The primer you used was probably water based. I think (and I add the disclaimer that I'm no expert) that if you used and oil based primer and then paint it should be okay.

Why not scrape it off then use beadboard paneling or something similar to cover the ceiling. That way you don't have to worry about taping and mudding (which is MUCH harder to get right on a ceiling than on a wall - you are correct about that!).

I just finished sanding my touchup spots on my recently de-popcorned ceiling. Yes, it's messy as all get out, but it already looks soooooo much better. I'm going to prime it with PVA primer made for sheetrock and then paint it my wall color. That wallpaper won't be there for long, either.

I just asked him and he did use a water-based primer so I guess the mystery is solved. I thought he used Kilz, but it was 1-2-3.

Alex - thanks for the pictures. Didn't it hurt your neck working on the ceiling? I have to admit it does look good.

Laurie

Nah, I was on a ladder and scraped the popcorn away from me. I was high enough that I was pretty close to the ceiling. The worst part is having to keep spraying the popcorn with water! My hand muscles were worn out yesterday.
I used my broom handle screwed into my roller for painting. It makes pretty quick work of it. It also helps to have a small room! It's so much easier when you use the wall color on the ceiling, too. I didn't have to worry about straight edges in a potentially awkward position.

Another vote to just scrape the stuff off. Yes, its a messy job but if your DH is getting ready to sand other drywall areas in there, you're going to have a mess anyway. Once it's off, it will be soooooo much easier to paint and keep clean!! A good friend of mine just finished taking it off her boy's bathroom ceilings. All it takes is a scraper, spray bottle, a little elbow grease and patience.

Hi guys!
There are scrapers specifically for popcorn scraping. A couple have a plastic trash-bag that hangs from the scraping unit!

Once removed, and celing is repaired/sanded....
(and I'm in the minority on this I think...!)
To minimize flashing of the new paintcoats, I'd roll on TWO coats of primer...1 N&S, the 2nd E&W.
Then TWO actual paintcoats, done the same.

>>> Drywall paper & joints are SOOO thirsty that some primers disappear into it!! Therefore, if you're not a PRO, sometimes slight differences (even in ceiling-flats!!) can be noticed.
>>> It won't take much longer, and the paint will look completely even. Assuming you're using good rollers & techniques!

Faron

Faron, I swore I'd seen one of those popcorn scrapers with a trash bag attached on TV and I've been looking for one and haven't been able to find it. I thought I was losing my mind and must have dreampt it! Please, do you have a link for where to get one?

Alex, I've been wanting to do my bedroom, but I've been scared since it's a big area and I do have a crummy neck. Any words on that? How long did it take you to do your bedroom ceiling and how hard was it? When you took the popcorn off, how bad was it? How much repair did it need? The young healthy carpenter who was PO to this house did the two kids' rooms. I called him to ask about it and he said they took him four days each. That scared me, as the master bedroom is even bigger (though not huge as master bedrooms go).

Oceanna,
I was searchin' the web today at work trying to find one, & I THINK Loew's carries them...maybe more places too.
* I just searched on "ceiling scrapers".
* One brand was Homax I believe. Funny...they make texure-sprays too!!! For walls AND ceiling-repair/touch-ups.
* Maybe I'm weird! I like popcorn ceilings....
* 'Course I like Lutefisk too!

The scraping might not be the worst part...
It's all the dust from the sanding that's kinda hellacious!
* SEAL-OFF the door(s) with plastic,
* COMPLETELY cover floor/furniture (pretend you're in a Level 4 Biohazard lab!!)
* Get a box-fan propped in a window, blowing out, and seal around this with plastic too.
* Now...you've just made a mini paint-booth! Some dust will be blown outside.

When done...vacuum/wipe down all the celing/walls and trim.
Make sure your Shop-Vac has a FINE-DUSTS bag in it!! You almost always have to buy this separate.

Remember...IMO...2 coats of primer on this kinda ceiling re-do!!

Faron

Faron - on the primers, what does N&S and E&W mean?

Laurie

I've seen those scrapers at Lowes.

I'm with with scrape is off group. I did my small hallway recently and I was surprised on how easy it was. It was messy, but not that bad. I didn't use that fancy scraper, just a wide blade putty knife with plastic tarps on the floor (wear shoes, the stuff sticks to your feet). I did have to do some sheet rock work (that's the worst part for me). But I'm so glad I did it. It looks soooo much better. I'm going to do the upstairs bedroom and bathroom after the holidays when those rooms aren't needed for guests.

Robbi

Thanks, Robbi! I think I asked at Home Depot and got blank stares. I'm a lot more willing to do the job with one of those scrapers that catches all the mess in a bag.

I'm not scared about scraping it off. I'm scared of what I'll find underneath and how much work it will be to get it paint-ready. Yeah, the sheetrock work. How hard was it?

I have a whole folder full of inspiration pics of ceiling art. :)

A word on the scrapers from Lowes.....

We used one for our last house and it was more trouble that it was worth. For one, when standing on the floor holding the pole up you have far less leverage and maneuverability with regards to how deep the scraper goes. Sometimes the scraper just took the top layer off, and other times it gouged the drywall something fierce. The blade is flat, but if you gouge the drywall a few times it starts to bend and creates more problems.

Also, to get the popcorn off you have to wet it. When the wet popcorn sheets fall into that bag it gets *heavy* really quickly. This causes the bag side of the scraper to pull down, and you have to compensate for that and re-group your scraping technique. And when I say it gets heavy quickly, I mean really quickly. Like 2 or 3 swipes and then you have to empty the bag. Also, not all of the droppings fall into the bag. Sometimes you get a really wide piece and only 1/2 of it falls into the bag and rest falls onto the floor or onto the dog or you, or whatever you don't want it to fall on to!

We finally ended up ditching the scraper, laying plastic all over the floor, using a garden sprayer to moisten the ceiling, and then I climbed on a ladder and used a drywall mud putty knife to scrape it. It was done in half the time. Then at the end we just scooped up the mess into the plastic sheeting and threw it away.

Here's a link to the Homax ceiling texture scraper

Laurie - The N+S and E+W had me scratching my head too. Finally dawned that it probably means North and South / East and West. Priming in both directions likely gives better coverage?
HTH

Oceanna, my rooms take me about 2-3 hours to scrape it all off then patching. The sanding was the worst part...that did cause some arm discomfort. The rooms have all been about 11x11 or 12x12, not huge.
My ceilings were taped and mudded, but not primed before the texture was applied. I had to patch the areas where they nailed/screwed the sheetrock. They are like little dimples, otherwise. After those areas were sanded, I primed (2 coats since it was bare sheetrock) then painted.
Total time is around 4-5 days, including final paint coat, if you are a go-getter. I let it all dry overnight, then tackle it again in the morning or after work.

At my parents' house, they primed the sheetrock before texturing and it was wonderfully smooth after scraping it all off. Very little touch-up needed.

One thing you'll notice, all of that texture dust doesn't come off. I know it's sacrilege to say it, but I just primed over it and have never had a problem with peeling paint. Some of my ceilings were still looking great after 6 years, too. I worked really hard to get most of it the first couple of times, but I lost my patience for it. I've used Kilz, and it hasn't made me pay for my short-cut :)

I thought about this some more last night and I think you should scrape it. Several reasons:

A) it's falling off, might as well
B) A steamy bathroom is probably not the best location for popcorn ceiling that is SUPPOSED to come off when wet
C) I agree that I see water damage there. The area where it is coming off is discolored. Have you gone up there to feel around?

holly - thanks! I don't think I would have ever figured that out :)

snookums - The discoloration is from him using two different colored primers.

Laurie

Reno, thanks for telling me that. You just saved me money and grief. :-)

Alex, thanks for answering my question. Did you use a sander on the ceiling? I'll bet mine aren't primed. Thanks for the tip about not having to get every little speck of dust off and using the Kilz primer to cover it. That sounds like a real time saver. I'm sure you ascertained that it was all pretty smooth. Anyway, it doesn't sound like a fun job for a big room, though not so bad for a little bathroom.

My problem with my bedroom is I can't move the furniture out. Too big and heavy. So since that scraper tool doesn't catch all the junk and would require running up and down the ladder a kazillion times to empty it, then I just don't see how I can do that room even if I drape the furniture -- not to mention I sleep in there.

My hat's sure off to you for doing your rooms, though!

And thanks for all the info, both of you.

hmm, I'm wondering if we would still have all the dust since he painted the ceiling with primer already? Do you think we would still spray it with water to remove it or just start scraping it?

Laurie

Laurie, most of the "dust" is underneath the peaked texture. It's the finer particles of the texture that help it all adhere, I guess. If you moisten it, the amount of dust flying through the air is diminished. There will always be some, though.

There is no way around the fact that you will have a mess. The end result helps with not totally hating the process to get there!

It sounds like while you might like to "scrape", it is more than you want to deal with right now. Been there, done that.

Kilz makes the popcorn repair spray in a spray can. I used it when my house was on the market and the dining area developed a leak. After roof repairs, I used this to cover the spots and it worked great. It blended really well. So, if you're just trying to get through to the next phase, this stuff should do the trick.