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Need help with layout (long post)

13 years ago

We are having some layout challenges we'd love to get your input/help to resolve.

Here is the most recent layout:

We have already paid for InnerMost cabinets but had to stop the order because we changed our minds on the layout.

There are two challenges:

(1) It seems that in order to get the longest L-counter and have 12" or wider base cabinets, the currently 33" sink-base will either be 5" uncentered relative to the center of the window or shrunken to 30". Hmm, what do you think? Should we opt for FORM (30" sink base and centered) or FUNCTION (forget about centering the sink and use 33" sink base)? We plan to store trash, recycling and compost underneath. Also a fire extinguisher, garbage disposal, and possibly an Insta-Hot water heater. I am concerned that a 30" sink base won't fit all that.

(2) What do you think about putting the 36" french door fridge against the wall? Or, should we swap its position with the microwave+tea section currently on the left of the fridge? Should we consider a narrower fridge like the 24" counterdepth liebherr to make room for a 12" pull out pantry? We do pack our 33" sxs full depth fridge full right now.

Some info on the the sink wall:

- The window is 65.5" wide, and it is not centered on the wall. It has 23.5" wall space to its left and 14.5" wall space to the right. (the drawing showed 14 3/16", ignore that. I didn't know how to use 20-20 software properly :)

- Once the upper cabinets along the stove wall goes up, the wall space between the left side of window and the front of the wall cabinet will be 10.5" wide.

- The centerline for the sink is 56.5"

Some of our goals/ideas for the kitchen are:

- having as many drawer stacks as possible, with preferably one of them being a 4-drawer stack.

- need one 12" base shelf unit to store a Kitchen Aid mixer

- having a lazy susan (in the design, we have a 36"x33") so we can store other stuff like mixing bowls, rice cooker, salad spinners

- creating the longest "L" counter possible running between stove and sink. We found a layout combination that yields 72" of countertop, but the sink base is off-center from the window. Maybe we just have to suck it up and live with that since counterspace is important to me.

- hanging our microwave next to the fridge under the 24" wall cabinet. We're thinking of putting a shelf rather than a specialized MW wall cabinet so we can have a taller wall cabinet.

- a single undermount bowl sink, preferrably 8-9" depth as DH is tall and doesn't want to bend to wash dishes. We do hand wash our dishes quite a bit.

- have a 36" french door counterdepth fridge (hoping for Kitchen Aid KFCP22EXMP because we can get a deal from our local appliance dealer)

- buy a 30" all gas pro range (currently a toss among GE monogram, Thermador, wolf, and suprise, viking D3)

- 36" pro hood with internal blower -- currently thinking of a KOBE CH0036SQB 1000cfm with duct cover. We looked at VAH, but DH who does the cleaning for stove and hood is not keen on it :)

As you can see, I am hoping for a kitchen that looks good, is pleasing to be in, functional, and has lots of storage for our family of three. Currently my DH and I cook together with our teenager occasionally joining in. We want to encourage that sort of family bonding time and all, which is why a big L counter is important for us.

Given the physical limitation of our space, I wonder if we're just asking too much if we also want the sink-base somewhat centered -- that is, off-center from the window by 3" or less.

And, here's the layout for the stove wall:

Is there anything else you'd recommend us to change in the layout?

We would love to hear your input and insights.

Thank you in advance!

Comments (7)

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    On the fridge wall:it looks to be 77 inches-but the left side has 13 inches unused?? not sure why....I would get a 30 in Liebherr[or 24 in if you can deal with it-they are smart with spatial configuration-the small one should be plenty]...that leaves 47 in of wall space-create cabinetry here with fridge more in center...near the corner approaching dinette, reduce depth or angle it back so no bumping when going around[was that the concern about 13 inches unused?] I would put a microwave drawer to the left or right of range in a 24 in base cab-that space will be more than compensated for with storage now on fridge wall.A main reason also is for the aesthetic, as all traffic comes thru that hallway and whatever is assigned there is constantly viewed. You gain in that regard, and storage is added that I think you will come to find indispensable.Also think about putting cabinet panels on fridge. The issue about sink placement is personal preference-with an offset sink,a faucet hole can be drilled at more the center position.It is a little bit "snakey" in shape but I guess you've probably evaluated leaving vs.changing perimeter walls. You're going to have a beautiful space with all the light flowing in-I see windows and doors!!

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    How about getting the larger sink and centering the faucet?

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Two questions/thoughts about the sink situation:

    What goes into the 12" cabinet to the left of the sink? This is a bit radical, but you could think about using a 45" sink base, and doing whatever was in the 12" cab under the sink.

    Another idea is to mask the non-centered sink somewhat. What kind of sink were you envisioning? Some people have made good use of sinks that are asymmetric, like the Franke Orca (but I think you would need the mirror image):

    The idea would be that you center the faucet on the narrow portion of the sink, and also center that on the window. The sink, as a whole, would then be pushed a little to the right, (and therefore not strictly centered on the window). However, it looks intentional and appropriate that way.

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Thanks everyone for your feedback!

    herflavor: my bad for not making it clear that the 13" is a non-moveable wall. So, the available space for the fridge wall is only 64" wide. There will be 3/4" panels to the left and right for fridge, and the Kitchen FD CD we are thinking of getting (KFCP22EXMP) requires 1/2" space on each side per specs. I don't know how to use the filler option in 20-20. When I tried to place the filler on the space next to the fridge, the filler just disappeared. So, I gave up after several tries. Good point about the fridge wall being constantly viewed as traffic comes through the hall. Hm, I wonder whether it will bother me seeing the boxy fridge first thing I come into the kitchen... I can't help thinking of the word "coffin" (though coffing probably is not made of SS :) when I imagined the fridge being the first thing I see as I walk in. Should I break the steely boxiness up with say a 33" fridge 6" tall pull-out pantry. Which means the tea/MW section will need to be reduced to 21". I need to research on MW that can fit a 21" space.

    rosie: I did think about centering the faucet. I might do that but first I need to make a decision on the sink base size: 30" or 33". My concern was that since the window is not centered on the wall, and then the 33" sink base is not centered on the window, and if I make the faucet off centered from the sink base, it will be off-centeredness to the power of three. I worry I will feel like I am in a fun house :) But, off centering the faucet is definitely something I will consider seriously.

    Angie DIY: Thanks for the idea for the Franke Orca sink. I will look into this! The 12" cabinet to the left of the sink is to store my Kitchen Aid mixer.

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    What is in b12r showing in the stove wall view? Can that be for your kitchenaid mixer?

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Since sink cabinets are usually deplorably wasted space (and end up actually repellent to gaze into compared to the greatness around them) my initial reaction would be to go smaller with the cabinet, custom-setting a larger sink. They always can hold larger sinks than the specs say. However, if you're going to be one of the few who put drawers or other good storage under the sink for dishes, pots and pans, containers, etc., then either size.

    As for the appearance of being off center, we all vary in our sensitivity to this. Some really "feel" it and care. However, if your sink blends with your counter and your cabinets all have matching fronts (same for DW), it's going to be a rare guest who notices sink placement at all. They're usually looking at you, after all, and maybe your choices for doors and counters, stove, etc. My sink is only 3" off, not 5, but I truly think no one except my hawk-eyed son has ever noticed (I'm the only TKO I know). In part, I believe, because the eye keeps right on going out the row of windows above. The faucet is centered on a vertical piece where two windows join because it sticks up. Really, in my kitchen the "show" is the view, is not the sink or the lower cabinets, which just sort of blend with each other everything else.

    All a way of saying I think if you're not strongly perfectionist here you have lots of wiggle room. If it really matters to you, though, I say forget the usual so-called function and go straight for the biggest, most important function--making you happy. The happy-dance function. :)

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    LOL, love your happy-dance function, rosie! Right on! Made me smile at the thought of it. Sometimes, we just need to remember the point of the kitchen renovation is to please ourselves and not our guests :) Thank you for such a gentle reminder and your insights!

    I would love to see the photo of your off-centered sink if you feel so inclined to share your view out the window and your sink.

    kirkhall: B12R along the stove wall is actually a 3-stack drawer base.

    It is too bad that I seriously am limited in my knowledge of using 20-20 software. I am not able to make it render the 2-D picture of the cabinetry. Sigh. It can do a 3-D version that showed the cabinetry but did so VERY poorly with weird lines crisscrossing all over the place. Can't post those pix, I am afraid. I am using the free 30-day trial version, maybe that's why.

    Anyway, the stove wall currently has drawer stacks:
    - 21" 4-drawer base to the left of stove
    - 27" 3-drawer base to the right of stove
    - 12" 3-drawer base between the 27" drawer base and the super susan

    We are putting all drawers along the stove wall and the 12" base with shelf along the sink wall so the "shelf" doors are on that wall. We don't know if that's a good idea, aesthetically speaking, or not. Should we mix things around a bit to break up the lines of drawers? Such as putting the 12" 3-stack drawer base to the left of the sink, and put the 12" shelf base to the right of the 27" drawer base?