Congratulations! Your initial layout is not an episode of "American Horror: When Zones Collide." Good job.

Some quick thoughts:

- Do you really need both of your French doors to be operable? Enough to get glass in your butt while doing dishes?

- You need a trash pullout by the sink. Both sinks, actually. For that, and other reasons, the whole back wall may need to scooch to the left.

- What are those two 15" cabinets doing there? Waste of space. Go bigger.

- Move the prep sink closer to the fridge.

-The toaster icon is cute but you need real pantry space.

The biggest question is about traffic flow. If you have a lot of traffic out the garage, you've got a problem. If so, move the door to where the coffee station is.

I would definitely move the door to the garage to the coffee station. It's in a really bad place for traffic flow. Also agree on having only one door open, the one away from the sink, with the other just being a matching stationary glass.

If you move your fridge to the door, create a corner...yeah, I know corners can be tricky but I also think the counter space in a corner is nice to have. Personally, that's where I would put my toaster and coffee pot so they would be a bit hidden when looking at the kitchen. I'm one that likes counters to be cleared off so I think this is a plus although others who like a bit of clutter might disagree. Of course, then you lose some good storage there but you should be able to make it up with the pantry cabinets Marcolo is suggesting.

I disagree that you need trash by each sink. I've never understood wasting that space for two trash areas unless you have a huge kitchen with tons of storage. My current kitchen is too small for this to be an issue but at family gatherings at my in-laws, the best prep/work area is across the kitchen from their trash. We simply use a bowl for scraps and empty it into garbage or compost, as appropriate, when we're done or when the bowl is full. Easy and no big deal.

I would put the trash next to the prep sink as you'll probably need it more there than by the clean-up sink. If you do need to scrape a dish prior to putting it in the dishwasher, trash and DW are right next to each other so it's easy to turn around from the clean-up sink, scrape and then load. You're not even walking anywhere, just turning.

I don't know where you'd move the prep sink to be closer to the fridge without crowding the stove. I think it's good where it's at. When you remove items to be prepped from the fridge, the counter by the prep sink is accessible. Looks like a good set-up to me.

The only other thing that I can think of, and it may not be a useful idea, is to make the cabinet to the right of the clean-up sink only 15". I suspect you'll find that you don't use this area for much anyway and it will give you 45" between DW and stove. I think those inches would be more useful on that side.

Agree with others to move the door to garage to coffee area and rearranging the deck door.

Just an idea for the island. I think it will be better if you have one seat on the short side and 3 on the long side. So it can be, 15 counter on the deck side and depending on where you'll have the sink either (from fridge side) 15" cab or trash, 21" sink, 36" drawers, 15 counter, or 36 drawers, 15 cab/trash, sink and 15 counter. That would give you a 88,5 wide (with 1,5 counter overhang) and 40,5" deep (with 1,5 o/h) island. If my math is correct you'll have about 63" from edge of the island to the door (with 36" deep fridge, more if you can recess the fridge into the wall).

Also, you can consider moving the DW to the other side of the sink. I think you can keep the 24" cab on the deck side and still maintain a good distance from the range.(maybe an additional 15" cab/trash on the left of sink). This arrangement can be better, especially if there would be multiple people working in the kitchen.

I think that I would flip the coffee station and the refrigerator the reason for this is that I think it would look better to have the lower cabinet lead into the higher fridge into the corner.
I would prefer center sliding doors to the deck that way you don't run into the door swing problem and you could also have a screen with lots of air flow during the balmy months of the year.
Note that the big patio door lines up with the small hallway...I think the change from big to small (or maybe it's small to big) is exactly what creates a wind tunnel effect. Maybe having it open into the kitchen will offset it, maybe not. Every time I open my front door a particular bedroom door slams shut (unless I remember to put the doorstop in place) and the air has to cross the large living room in order to accomplish that slam...

What about this?

1) Fridges are always a real bottleneck because there is rarely room for the depth needed for the fridge (which is almost always deeper than standard cabinets) + the open fridge door + a person standing in front of all that pondering the fridge contents + room to walk behind that person.

The way you have it set up now, someone at the fridge will definitely block that walkway, meaning anybody coming in from the garage at the same time will be forced to walk through the primary work zones.

You need extra walkway space in front of the french doors already so the doors can swing, so if you were to move the fridge where I have put it, that extra walkway can perform double-duty for both the area in front of the fridge and the area in front of the french doors. Then the fridge has lots of room in front of it and doesn't cause a bottleneck.

As a bonus, by moving the fridge, you gain a larger island and a dedicated pantry (floor to ceiling cabinets 15" deep -- my favorite kind of pantry because it is simplest to see everything and grab anything).

2) The way you currently have the fridge, you can't walk a straight line between the fridge and the prep sink -- you have to walk around the island. (I personally would bang my hip constantly on that corner of the island because I would unconsciously try to walk straight through it.) Since most people get food from the fridge and immediately take it to a sink to wash and prep it, that's no good.

The location where I have put the fridge, it is in a nice tight work triangle with the cooktop and prep sink, there is a wide counter space inside the triangle, and there are no obstacles between anything. This is ideal.

3) You have your longest counter to the left of the stove, but that whole stretch of counter is pretty far from any sink. You have to cross most of the kitchen (and through where other people would be working, disturbing them) to get to a sink.

The problem here is that you have located both sinks to the right of the cooktop. If you spread out the sinks as I have done so they are on either side of the cooktop, now people on either side of the stove can prep and cook without crossing into each other's work areas.

4) You never want the dishwasher between the cooktop and the sink. It means you can't prep there and do the dishes at the same time. Whether the cook is a clean-as-you-go kind of cook or there is someone doing dishes while someone else cooks, you want it all to be possible. Common wisdom calls this keeping the "clean-up zone" out of the prep zones.

5) Where I have moved the door to the garage, it will be natural for a person to either veer right towards the living areas if they have no need to be in the kitchen or to veer left into the kitchen work areas if that is where they need to be. Or to go straight and immediately drop heavy groceries on the island. Nobody is funneled directly into the kitchen works zones if they don't need to be there. I also made that walkway in front of the doorway extra-wide for if multiple people are coming in carrying bulky things at once.

6) Is the top wall an exterior wall? If so, I can't stress how much I would add a window above the main sink where I put it. In addition to resale concerns (buyers just expect a window above the sink), getting natural light to the dark end of the kitchen would make SUCH a difference to the atmosphere and feel of your kitchen. A cross breeze in a kitchen is also really nice when it gets warm from all the activity or cooking smells get overwhelming. It is nice to have something to look at when you are doing dishes. I could go on and on. Go cheaper on your finishes and get the window.

7) I deliberately made the cabinets/appliances on the cooktop wall add up to a few inches shy of the full width of that wall. Just to leave room for walls that aren't totally plumb and anything else you need wiggle room for when the realities of physical installation don't quite jive with paper measurements.

This post was edited by Jillius on Wed, Nov 19, 14 at 14:24

Thanks everyone for your suggestions! I am revising my design with some of those suggestions in mind and will post when done.

My kitchen has all interior walls, so can't add a window anywhere, even though I love as much natural light as possible. The French doors are the only source of natural light.

The French doors were already there when we decided to make this space our kitchen. The door closest to the back wall is unfortunately the one that has to open first, but can then open the other side and close first for backyard access. I thought of just replacing with a slider or different door but for budget reasons DH wants to keep the existing one.

I neglected to indicate this with a cute icon, but the 21 inch base cabinet in the original island next to the prep sink was going to be a double trash pull out - one for recycle, other for regular trash.

I agree about the need for pantry space - I planned to have the 30 in cabinet next to the garage hallway go all the way down to the counter. Gives me some extra storage space but not too deep, then base cabinets for larger items. The two 15 inch cabs were going to be vegetable bins in an attempt to keep my counter top less cluttered.

I would follow marcolos saying "Ice, water, stone, fire". Refrigerator, sink, counter space, stove. Prep sink in island.

I like the fridge separated a bit, with a snack/coffee area that's not in the main prep area. I would switch the main sink and dishwasher...move the prep sink over a bit...and change the patio door to a French door that's hinged in the middle. This will keep it from opening against your work area. Just a few ideas :)

This post was edited by lavender_lass on Tue, Nov 25, 14 at 16:07

Thanks for the ideas - I can see how it might work better to have the dishwasher not between the range and sink. And I am going to have to do something the door to the backyard deck.

Buehl, any ideas?

Use out swing doors onto the deck.

Use out swing doors onto the deck.

Yeah, doors that swing outward or a sliding door that opens left to right are two obvious solutions.
I've been looking at patio doors for my remodel... there seem to be endless options. Finding a solution won't be hard, but choosing one might be :)

You're right - almost too many choices. I think DH is on board with finding a different door. don't want to do swing out because can get blocked by snow in the winter.

If you are willing to mess with the headers, just slide the operational door downward so that it opens up against the dining room wall. It will be completely out of the way, and you can even leave it open in the summer.

marcolo, that's a good idea! We've been messing with headers and beams in other areas so we might just do that and keep the door. I did want to be able to keep the door open at times.