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jdsb2

Need advice on combining induction and gas

11 years ago

This is my first post. Please forgive the length or any
newbie faux pas.

We
are in the design phase of a new home build and need to finalize appliance
selection for engineering and bidding very soon. We are a family of five, who
all love to cook and we entertain frequently. We are building a
waterfront, high end home. Appliances are very important and will be used. We cook everything, including homemade pizza at least once a week, and frequent baking. We have always had an electric cooktop and double wall ovens and were looking
forward to getting a big gas range with a double griddle. Then, I discovered
this forum, which has helped tremendously with appliance selection (thanks to all who post) and
introduced me to induction. I have cooked on both, and now know I want gas and
induction, but I am not sure what the best combination will be. We longed for a built in griddle as we do a lot of griddle cooking. We use a lot of big pans, so the various burner sizes on the
induction cooktops is a concern, as I am afraid it will be limiting. This
makes the Thermador Freedom appealing, but I am concerned about the limit of 3
or 4 pans. I like the safety of induction, particularly because of my kids.
We have a generous appliance budget, but I find Gaggenau to be too expensive.
We are not concerned about resale. Here are our options as I see it, but I welcome input/other
options:

1.
36" inch induction cooktop, flanked by Miele teppanyaki (griddle) and one
15" wok gas burner (Wolf or Miele) and double wall ovens.

2.
36" all gas range with four burners and 12" griddle (probably Miele),
flanked by two Miele induction hobs. One electric wall oven.

3.
36" gas cooktop with four burners and 12" griddle, flanked by two
Miele induction hobs and double wall ovens.

4.
48" gas cooktop with four burners and double griddle, flanked by two
Miele induction hobs and double wall ovens.

I
am concerned about the electric Miele teppanyaki as I cannot find the power of
the unit or any reviews. I worry about induction units
breaking because of the electronics, but maybe this is misplaced as I have
never had any issues with my Bosch or Miele electric cooktops (I just hate
electric!). And no, we probably do not need six burners, but we frequently use at least five on some occasions. I am not sure about the benefits of a
gas range or if double electric ovens would be better, as there are conflicting
opinions and I have never had a gas or a 36" inch oven, but it seems
cavernous; I almost wonder
if the 36" oven is too big.

I
am generally decisive, but I am struggling with this decision. Thanks in advance for any
input.

Comments (24)

  • 11 years ago

    Welcome to the forum! If you've been researching this, you probably know that I have two Wolf gas burners and a three element (inc. double ring) Gaggenau induction. Given my experience with them, I'm not understanding your choices for options. How do you see yourself cooking?

    You have a generous budget, but do you have any space restrictions?

    From your own description of your cooking style, I'd guess that the best arrangement might be a 36" rangetop with griddle and a 24" Wolf induction cooktop. Were you just doing two induction units for symmetry? I don't think it would be great for cooking that way. When you're trying to use the induction with that setup, you still have a face full of gas.

    At one point I was set on a Gaggenau tepanyaki. A trick I learned from the distributor is to use half a lemon to wipe down the surface while it's still warm (but cooled some from cooking temperature). That supposedly makes it really easy to clean.

    If you think you might like to have more induction space (and after using it for awhile, one tends to forget to use the gas), and if you have the space, you might even consider a 30" Induction with a 36" gas rangetop with only two burners and a double sized griddle.

    With all of this, if you're used to using electric wall ovens, I wouldn't go with an all gas range if I were you. I, personally, hate range ovens. I don't want to stand in front of an oven to cook! I also prefer the precision of an electric oven for baking. I can bake fine with gas, but it's so much easier with electric! Some of that has improved with the latest technology, but there's still a difference.


    jdsb2 thanked plllog
  • 11 years ago

    twobelles - Thanks for your response. It is nice to know there are others who have spent as much time researching appliances as I have. I think you have made great decisions with your appliances. I agree the Miele gas unit is great because of the high heat and we do like wok cooking, but the Wolf seems more flexible on the low end and has two sets of grates. But, flexibility on the low end may not be necessary with induction. I have not figured out whether the Wolf would work side by side with other modular units or other brand cooktops. But, I have seen photos of different brands together that seem to work. Have you considered the side swing door Bosch ovens? I am waiting for more reviews, but I am considering those ovens. They look great in person. We are also going to get the Miele combi-steam oven which is now available plumbed like the Gaggenau. We have a big kitchen (25' x 20'), but because of windows and doors (I like a lot of natural light) we don't have room to install ovens horizontally. Good luck with your build!

    Plllog - thank you for your reply, and yes, I have read all of your posts (I think) on your combination of gas and induction which you seem to have done very successfully. Your combination was one of my inspirations for going down this path and I so appreciate the time you spend on this forum giving advice. We have multiple cooks in the kitchen all the time, so I think you make really good points regarding the range. And, yes I am used to electric ovens. As far as how we cook, we often have many things going on in the kitchen at once. We make breakfasts consisting of eggs (almost every day) and pancakes (several days a week), roast, grill outdoors, bake, stirfry. The kitchen is a second family room. We have friends/family over frequently and do all the cooking. We have parties every few months of up to 30 or more guests where we do all the cooking. We also have larger parties, but use a caterer. Our kitchen is 25' x 20' with the cooking appliances on a 12' run of cabinetry. I agree that we will probably prefer induction cooking to gas, except for the few things that can only be done with gas. I was only considering the gas rangetops options because of the gas griddle. And yes, I was thinking about symmetry with regard to two flanking induction units, but that is probably a mistake as you point out. I love your suggestion about a 36" rangetop with a double griddle. Do you know who makes this option?

    Many thanks . . . you have helped me tremendously.

  • 11 years ago

    If climate permits, you might consider putting the wok burner outside. That's what I'm doing, a 30" Induction in the house and a 60k Firemagic wok burner outside.

    jdsb2 thanked dbabrams
  • 11 years ago

    dbabrams - interesting thought. We live in a warm climate and can grill all year long.

  • 11 years ago

    Figured I can do the high effluent stuff outdoors, so I won't need as much of a hood inside. The firemagic piece is about $1200 for 60k BTUs, found a floor model for much less.

  • 11 years ago

    One more idea, given your description of cooking styles, though it may not fit, would be to have two different cooktop locations. That makes it easier for multiple cooks (more than two) to mind multiple pots, but is inconvenient for the single cook who wants to use both. I've seen it done in very modest kitchens where either there was a legacy range or woodstove, and in kosher kitchens where they don't want to kasher between meals.

    I can't bear to look at Wolf's new website. Everything is a mixed muddle and too big to fit on my double monitor. Makes me feel like Alice Through the Looking-glass. They used to offer a 36" with two burners and a French top, for sure, and I thought a two and double griddle, but they also used to offer open burners, and I couldn't find it by Googling. I'd think any company that makes double griddles could do one for you.

    Another way to do it is with an American Range 24" double griddle rangetop (griddle only), a gonzo wok burner, and a 30" induction cooktop. That could take a bit more counterspace, however, with having to support more units. AR might also be able to make you a 36" combined double griddle/burners unit. So might BlueStar, Capitol, etc. AR is the only one I know for sure makes the stand alone double griddle unit, though. And if a teppanyaki will do it for you, it would save space.

    OR, if you really want to do up the teppanyaki idea, there's Cook-N-Dine (http://www.cook-n-dine-usa.com/). I lusted after that one, mightily, but in a kitchen of a fairly similar size to yours, I couldn't find a place for it. That is, they make a lot of things. I lusted (still do) for the big round flush set one.

    Since I couldn't make the teppanyaki work, I got the (discontinued, but they make rectangular ones) big round Demeyere teppanyaki griddle which works on my big double induction ring. It works just as well once it's fully heated, and is easy to move to the sink for cleaning. :) It's not as fun, but it gets the job done. I use it for meat, though. For eggs, I love nothing like my DeBuyer carbon steel crepe pans. You have to season them like cast iron, but they're thin and very very reactive, and make cooking eggs SO easy. When I'm doing sunnyside up, I put a big cast iron pot lid over it. It's held up by the handle on one side so the steam escapes, but the lid reflects heat down to cook the top before the yolk hardens.

    So, really, I didn't need the teppanyaki after all. The thing I actually "miss" is a built in fryer, like Trailrunner's. Considering that I only want to deep fry about three times per year, and if I had the built-in, I could maybe find use for it a dozen times, it would be a stupid thing for me to put money and counter/cupboard space into. When I fry, I put paper on the induction and use an enamelled cast iron pot or pan. It works really well, other than missing the built in temperature sensor, and the well under the heater that loose bits fall into rather than scorching.

    Wok and charring are the only things that can't be done well on induction. Oh, and large batch pressure canning, or glass, copper or clay cooking.

    Sorry to go on so. I'm not good at brevity. I hope some of this is helpful.

  • 11 years ago

    Thanks for the details. It looks like Bluestar and AR make a standalone griddle. I have made an inquiry about whether Wolf would make two burners and a double griddle. (I agree about Wolf's website). I don't think two cooking areas would work in the main kitchen, although we did discuss it and also thought about putting a cooktop in a "clean up" kitchen we will have (a large walk-in pantry with extra full size fridge/freezer, sink and DW), but ultimately decided not to. Would love a built in fryer too, but it did not make the appliance cut -- we deep fry occasionally, probably once or twice a month, but my husband thought having it would make us deep fry more often which is not the healthiest way to cook. We also considered a grill, as while we can grill outside year-round, sometimes when it is really hot and buggy in summer, it is nice to be able to grill inside. My parents have the Miele 15" electric built-in grill and it is great. I don't think the CND teppanyaki will work for us, because I do think we will use the griddle more for breakfast foods, quesedillas, sandwiches, and I vision the CND unit working for a Benihana-type meal. But maybe I am missing something.

    Again, thanks for your input. It is very helpful. And, you are not going on and on. Lots of ideas to consider.


  • 11 years ago

    jdsb2, thank you so much for posing this dilemma. It is really helping me clarify my thinking, as well.

    plllog, thanks to you also for ALWAYS taking the time to think through situations and offer reasonable suggestions. This is a great example of how the OP has benefitted from your expertise, and by extension, so have I. Appreciate you!

  • 11 years ago

    By the way, you cannot order a Wolf 36" range or rangetop with a double griddle and two burners. To get a double griddle, you have to go to 48".

  • 11 years ago

    Thanks for checking. I'm surprised they won't do it as a custom order.


  • 11 years ago

    I did talk to Bluestar today and they confirmed that they will do a 36" with a double griddle and two burners. HTH!

  • 11 years ago

    twobelles - if you go with the bluestar how will you incorporate the induction?

  • 11 years ago

    Well, to balance my cooking wishes with my aesthetics I think I will either have to~

    A: Go with the Bluestar in the center and an induction hob to the side like this: Bluestar burner/double griddle/ induction hob

    or

    B: Go with the wok burner/induction/teppanyaki and compromise with the size of the griddle

    Today's thinking is to go with Option B, the larger full surface induction unit which will give me a "backup" griddle space for the times when I have a lot of girls spending the night who want pancakes in the morning. :)

  • 11 years ago

    I am leaning towards B or option C: forget symmetry and getting a full induction cooktop and put it next to the BS rangetop, I just can't find an image of a similar set up. I don't think I would be happy with two induction hobs as I think I will use these burners most often.

  • 11 years ago

    One thing to remember, if reflective symmetry is important to you, is that you can finish the cabinet/drawer front beneath the induction in a way that echos the rangetop. You can even have made a housing around it that looks just like a rangetop, complete with faux knobs. OTOH, if you just do vestigial top drawer (there's usually room for one that's about 1.5" deep which is good for stirrers and splatter screens--the rest of the height belongs to the cooktop's works and thermal shield), you can have it wrapped in stainless to match, and put on chunky pull-knobs that have a look of the rangetop knobs without being exactly the same. That's enough to trick the eye into seeing symmetry.

    A, B and C all sound like useful arrangements.

    Keep in mind, if it's just about things like pancakes for sleepovers, electric skillets make very good pancakes, and you can usually get good ones for $10 at garage sales. Get four and set them up at plugs around the room--or even outside, or in the family room, if Dad or Grandma can supervise--and let the girls make their own pancakes while you deal with the harder stuff (eggs, etc.) on your now much clearer cooking area.


  • PRO
    11 years ago

    Is it possible to use the flexinduction portion of a Bosch Benchmark cooktop with for grilling/teppanyaki style cooking (ie with a teppanyaki pan such as that sold by Bosch)? (Presumably, this could be done on an 11 or 12 inch burner or freedom/full-surface on those or any other induction cooktop that supports that as well.) How would this compare to a gas grill? To an electric grill? Has anybody tried this? Does the cooktop get hot enough? Does the cooktop overheat and shutoff?


    If this works, then you would not need a separate teppanyaki. When you are not grilling, this space could be used for other cooking. This has the added advantages that the grill pan can be washed in the dishwasher or in the sink and the cooking surface stays a lot cleaner looking. You could combine a 36 inch Bosch flexindicton cooktop (or 2 30 inch induction cooktops) so that you have two rectangular flexinduction regions with something for wok/gas cooking depending on how much aditional cooking space you need.



  • 11 years ago

    plllog -- thanks for the ideas on how to make an induction cooktop look symmetrical to a rangetop. I really appreciate your input. With regard to an electric griddle, I have one now and don't like it. It does make great pancakes, but is not nearly as flexible as a built in griddle. Also, it is big and ends up sitting on the counter because we use it so often. In the new house, I want it off the counter.

    houzton girl - I am not sure about the Bosch Benchmark. I am waiting for some user reviews. A video does show it with a griddle, and it looks great. I can't find one hooked up where I live. I did use a cast iron grill pan on induction and was surprised out how well it work to grill burgers. It is what convinced me to go mostly induction instead of gas (not to mention boiling water and simmering). That said, cleaning griddles and grill pans are challenging. We rented a house with a 48" gas range with a 12" griddle and I loved not having to wash a pan. I found cleaning the griddle surface to be so easy. That got me hooked on the idea of a double griddle on a big gas range. Then I discovered induction which I love.

  • 3 years ago

    Hello jdsb2 - - what did you end up deciding to do?


    I find myself in what may be a very similar situation today. I purchased a home a year ago with Gaggenau appliances... 12" deepfyer (that i switched to a 12" electric grill), 24" electric cooktop, 12" single gas burner.... those are approx - in total, its actually only 47"....


    Being that Gaggenau are such high end appliances, i gave it a year with the electric cooktop, and i just can't stand it anymore... so i want to make a switch. Similar to you, i LOVE using my outdoor blackstone griddle, so i've been wanting to bring that experience indoors... In a separate thread, i've discussed having the granite cut out larger and putting two 30" gas cooktops in, placing a large griddle over the majority (or all) of one of the cooktops.... however, many recommendations have been to put induction in... so naturally, i'm wondering if i should put a 30" gas next to a 30" induction... and put the 30" griddle on the gas side... My concern is whether this will look a bit goofy... so if you finalized somethign similar, i was hoping you'd have some comments and/or pictures you could share??


    p.s. i guess i could do two 30" induction cooktops and put the griddle on one of them... but i am VERY hesitant to eliminate gas altogether... and not sure if that'll work correctly with the induction.

  • 3 years ago

    I ended up putting in the 42" Miele induction cooktop and a 36" gas range with a griddle in our back kitchen (large pantry wit a full kitchen). I love, love, love the induction and never use the gas. The only time we use the gas is when we use a wok, which my husband does.. We use the double lodge griddles on the Miele induction and a large carbon steel griddle as well. The induction has much better control at the high and low end. It boils faster and is so easy to clean. It is safer and better for the environment.


    We are building a vacation home right now and only putting in induction. I will never put in gas again.

  • 3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    thank you! do you have a link to the 'large carbon steel' griddle you have? i have a Lodge double griddle, but its not large enough to do what i want to do with my griddle


    really hoping to use one of these: https://steelmadeusa.com/

    but the website says it doesnt work with induction b/c of a 1/2" spacer kit used for glass cooktops.


  • 3 years ago

    I would think that if you keep the griddle from being red hot (450F max, say), thin silicone pads would work to avoid risk of surface scratching. But I see that this device is two-layered, and the bottom part might well operate very hot relative to the cooking surface above.

  • 3 years ago

    This is the larger griddle I use: https://www.bbqguys.com/rocky-mountain-cookware/14-x-23-inch-steel-griddle


    I also use the Lodge cast iron griddles.

  • 2 years ago

    @ jdsb2 we are in the same boat but looking at my space I can only do 30" induction and 12 or 15" gas. The Wolf induction cooktop is very loud but they their cooktop go together really well, while the Miele Induction is quieter. However, the Miele gas range is 1 inch larger than the induction cooktop. Which induction model did you install? Can I see a pic of your cooktops?