First, botulism isn't a concern with high acid foods. It can't grow in them. That is why pH is so important in home canning. So unless you car canning low-acid foods and not adding sufficient acid to them your fears of botulism are unfounded.

Second, boiling does not kill botulism spores.

Third, the guidelines (NCHFP) make it clear that any jars of food which will be processed for 10 mins or more in either a BWB or a pressure canner do NOT have to be pre-sterilized. Nor are sterile tools required when making them. The processing alone insures proper termination of any microorganisms in either the food or the preparation methods.

So no offense intended but yes, you are being overly cautious and making the process far more time-consuming and complex than necessary.

The only time I bother with sterilizing jars is if I am processing something that calls for less than 10 mins. processing time and even then it posies no problems to just up the processing time to 10 mins and not worry about the jars.

This of course is assuming you are only using tested and approved recipes from the approved sources and processing them as directed in the recipes. If you are making up your own recipes and processing times or using family recipes or recipes from unapproved sources then there are no guarantees.

Dave

Thanks for your reply. I'm sorry to show my ignorance, but I'm not sure I completely understand your answer. Are you saying that the jars should be processed in boiling water after filling? I currently sterilize the jars, then I fill them. Sorry, I know I sound a little dense. Like I said, this is all new to me.

Are you saying that the jars should be processed in boiling water after filling?

Oh my yes. All home canned foods require one form of after jarring processing. Either boiling water bath processing or pressure canning is required and which type is required depends on which type of food it is and what the pH is.

If you have shelf-storing jars of foods that were not processed in any way after filling the jars then that is quite risky. Air remains in the jars that allows for bacterial growth and there is minimal or no vacuum seal to insure safety. That is far more risky than worrying about sterile utensils and jars.

Can I ask what resources you have research to learn about home canning food? Do you have a copy of the Ball Blue Book? It is considered sort of the bible for home food canners. I'd suggest some in-depth reading at NCHFP - the recognized authority on safe home food processing.

Dave

Thank you Dave, lights are going on, lol. I do have the Ball Blue Book but most of my information has come from online sources and I've only ever read about pre-sterilizing jars, not sterilizing after they've been filled. I will bookmark that NCHFP page and do some reading. Appreciate the help.

Here's the clarification needed: How are you processing your products after filling the jars? How do you store it?

I make lots of jams, etc. I generally use the dishwasher for my jars (handwashing new lids prior to use), then use the dry cycle to hold my jars hit until the jam is cooked and I fill. After filling the jars to the proper head space, I wipe the rims, place the lids and rings on them to seal the jars and place them in boiling water (2"covered) for the proper amount of time-I'm high altitude, so longer for me. This is what is called Boiling Water bath canning (BWB).

If your canning time in the BWB is longer than 10 min, then full sterilization (boiling jars prior to filling) is not needed due to the temps reached during canning. I do occasionally boil jars to sterilize prior to filling with thing that I won't be canning processing (such as infused vinegars, etc), but I don't sterilize everything prior to canning--I keep a pretty clean kitchen and am comfortable with that level. I also have two young children, and have been thru commercial food safety classes that try their darnedest to scare the crap out if you with regards to cleanliness and understand all of it. I just don't take it to extremes at home.

But, all that said, if the sterilization makes you more comfortable with canning, then it's your time and effort. But especially with the types of foods you list, setting a spoon on a clean counter really won't matter.

Ha-I type too slow on my ipad. 2 responses just while typing.

giddy up--anything Dave says can be trusted to be correct

Thanks again, one more question ... I made pickle yesterday and did not put the jars into hot water after filling. The pickle was made with malt vinegar--can I go back and put them in a boiling water bath now or do I have to toss the batch?

Can't say without seeing the entire recipe for the pickles. Very few approved pickle recipes call for malt vinegar as it has an inconsistent pH. So it would all depend on the acidity rating of the vinegar and the amount used. If they are less than 24 hours old they can be stored in the fridge. Although not recommended they could be BWB processed within 24 hours but without knowing the recipe the processing time required is unknown and that would still be no guarantee of safety.

most of my information has come from online sources

Not really a safe approach. While there are some good online sources there are many, many poor quality or downright unsafe sources on line. Until you know what you are doing please stick with the approved sources for info.

Dave

Sorry, it's not pickles, it's pickle--a sort of relish made with a lot of different chopped vegetables. The recipe is here: http://www.food.com/recipe/the-almost-original-branston-pickle-recipe-246675. It calls for 3/4 pint of malt vinegar, but I only had 1/2 pint so I had to add some apple cider vinegar to make up the balance.

If you are in the U.S. brands like Heinz are standardized to 5%, including their malt vinegar. There are also "imitation" malt vinegars colored with caramel but not true aged malt. That would affect the flavor. Check the label.

The main thing with that Branston-style pickle recipe is making sure the mixture is not too dry as there would be a risk of the vinegar not penetrating some of the pieces of root. That would be a safety concern. It would be better to have a more liquid relish and then drain off some of the pickling solution when serving than to have a very dry one.

Generally you can process (or re-process) foods within 24 hours but you would have to remove the pickle from the jars, re-heat the pickle and re-pack into hot clean jars then boiling water bath.

There are foods it's not absolutely necessary to heat-process, like full-sugar jams. However, generally in the U.S. and Canada they are processed as that increases shelf life and reduces the possibility of mold.

Carol

Hey Carol! Good to hear from you. :) What have you been up to?

Dave

For me, it kind of depends on what I'm doing with the jars.

I like to run all my jars through the sanitize cycle on my dishwasher- simply because you never know what might happen to jars while they are being stored, or sometimes another family member puts the jar away when it isn't really clean. Yes, I do this no matter how long the processing time is, but I tend to do this only when I'm doing a lot of processing, and it's worth really filling up the dishwasher with jars.

I never boil my lids, I simmer them after hand washing them. I don't boil my instruments, just throw them into the dishwasher along with my jars.

Now, sometimes I'm doing just a small batch of small jars, and don't want to go to the trouble of running the dishwasher- then I boil my jars for a few minutes first, because usually I'm making something that has a short processing time.

If I'm making a fridge pickle, I always boil my jars for a full 10 minutes before using the jar. I never make enough fridge pickles to make it worth running the dishwasher, and since I will be doing no processing after, I give the jars a full sanitation run. Same goes for when I do lacto-fermented jars, because those are just going to be sitting on the counter to percolate and seriously need the boiling off to make sure anything I can kill is killed.

For where my tools rest while processing- I use a couple of glass cake plates as spoon rests in my kitchen, so those are washed well and given a spritz of white vinegar. If I drop a tool, then I will wash it again, but if it accidentally touches a counter, I don't bother- because I spray down my clean counters with white vinegar before I start processing.

Hi Dave. Glad to see you're still online helping home preservers. We had a record warm winter. We just put 5 pickup loads of well-aged sheep manure on the garden and tilled it up for the first time. It's supposed to be in the 70's later in the week so it's not the usual PNW weather.

For the previous poster and any other readers, do keep in mind that "sanitize" is not sterilizing. No residential dishwasher achieves a temperature sufficient for sterilization. So whether hand-washed or dishwashed you're achieving the same thing - hot and clean. (Though dishwashers obviously offer convenience and are a great place to hold the prepped jars.)

Carol

That's a great point readinglady. No one sterilizes their jars or tools really, or at least not unless they use a pressure canner to do it. Sterilization is at about 250 degrees, and even boiling water only gets to 212. So no, dishwashers don't get to the sterilize level. A few do get up to or real close to the sanitize level of 160, and with the addition of the chemicals, can hit the classification of sanitize.

Envy you Carol. Still have a couple of inches of snow on the ground here so it will be a late start this year. Can't even get to the gardens yet much less get the manure spread so have to keep happy with starting seeds indoors for now.

Just to avoid any future misunderstandings, the definition of sterilization all depends on its context. Sterilization of jars and utensils in the world of home food processing, when done with water, is defined as boiling water and 212 degrees. It is done for a prescribed period of time determined by the equipment being sterilized. Since we don't have access to autoclaves, irradiation equipment, or ethylene gas that method and temperature is considered sufficient and is the basis for all BWB canning as it has the added protection of acidification. Higher temps are only possible with pressure canning.

Dave.