Yes, the loan is a mortgage on the house. Yes, they did need our help - something we were planning to do even if they didn't need our help. So both of their names might show up as owners on the property records for the county? I think I do need to call his lender.

I don't think his lender will give you information unless you are also on the mortgage.

It sounds like he may have needed his girlfriends' credit history and income to qualify for the loan.

I did put in a call to him. I will see what he says if he calls back.
I don't think he needed her to qualify for the loan. He makes enough money.

Property law is pretty state specific. And common law marriage still exists in some states so that's another complicating set of facts depending on how long they have been living together. To really answer this question, you'd need a local attorney.

Two things from this article.

"Prepare a legally binding home buying prenuptial."

"Once
you co-own property with someone, the paperwork continues. A home buying
prenup is useless if you can't accurately determine who paid for what
along the way."

I'm a firm believer that you leave with what you came with ~ or what you put in.(Since there are no children involved)

This article might help guide you. Hope so. Good luck.

I would definitely talk to an attorney. I don't think your son actually holds the title until the mortgage is paid off-- the lender holds the title. If both of their names are on the mortgage, they are co-owners of the mortgaged house.

If both of their names are on the mortgage, they are co-owners of the mortgaged house.

Double-check the laws in your state, but I believe this is correct. The issue would be how they end up being listed on the title.

If they are listed on the title as Joint Tenants, they own the house equally. Should something happen to your son, the GF would then automatically own his share of that property and would still be responsible for the mortgage.

If they go on title as Tenants in Common, a percentage of ownership can be specified. If one dies, his/her percentage would go to whoever is stated in a will, living trust, or next of kin.

Another article to read.

I was going to mention common law. Depending on the law where you live, doesn't matter if her name is not on title, she could still fight for half the house.

http://www.unmarried.org/common-law-marriage-fact-sheet/

FYI:

States That Recognize Common Law Marriage

Only a few states recognize common law marriages, and each has specific stipulations as to what relationships are included:

• Alabama
• Colorado
• District of Columbia
• Georgia (if created before 1/1/97)
• Idaho (if created before 1/1/96)
• Iowa
• Kansas
• Montana
• New Hampshire (for inheritance purposes only)
• New Mexico
• Ohio (if created before 10/10/91)
• Oklahoma (possibly only if created before 11/1/98. Oklahoma’s laws and court decisions may be in conflict about whether common law marriages formed in that state after 11/1/98 will be recognized.)
• Pennsylvania (if created before 1/1/05)
• Rhode Island
• South Carolina
• Texas
• Utah

You can probably look up details for your exact location online. I was able to find pretty quickly that generally in Canada with common law couples whatever property each person brings into the relationship is generally theirs. However since they are essiential buying the house together (her parents gifting money) it might get a little more tricky. It does say though that the house is owned by whose ever name is on title. It also suggests that a co-habitation agreement be written up in such cases.

I also think you need to talk to an attorney, with your DS with you. One of our DDs married and had a pre-nup since she owned her house, furnishings and car outright. He had nothing but the clothes on his back and a car that barely ran. They were divorced in 16 months. She didn't end up needing the pre-nup, as he moved out at the 6 month mark, but we were all glad she had one. The attorney that drew it up said even if he was giving her money to help pay the bills (he barely did, but that was only part of the problem) to keep it separate from her house account. Since the house was in her name only, if they were married long enough and they co-mingled money for the house, he could take her to court if he wanted.

So if your DS is the only owner of the home, he needs to keep a "house only" account to pay utility bills, taxes, repairs, improvements, upkeep - anything and everything having to do with the house. If GF gives him money to say pay half the utilities, that money should go in his regular account for him to buy groceries, gas, dinner out, etc and he needs to put his money/paycheck in the house account to cover house expenses.

It's my understanding that whoever is on the title is the owner. Loan make no difference really for ownership. Just makes both responsible for the payments. Her name can be removed from property tax notices easily. I co-signed with DS for a condo when he was in college, but he was responsible for everything... but he couldn't get loan w/o me signing. We had my name taken off the tax notice.

I agree with Allison. The home can be titled in his name only even if she is on the loan. This is often something that irritates people when they break up because they are still responsible for payments even though they don't own the house. Of course, once he is on the title, he could add her name to it as well.

You may just have to decide to step back and let it go. Either that, or put it on the market as you mentioned. We can't control our adult children's decisions, nor should we, imho.

Just want to add that I feel for you. It is so difficult having your children with partners that you do not like.

Oh boy, what a pain.

I do think that this is a little bit different than "controlling adult children's decisions", because there is a transaction involved, with stipulations, that he has not adhered to (if I get it right). I think the OP is totally within her rights to make sure that the legal situation does reflect her intentions, if possible. I would calmly insist on that without casting aspersions on the partner.

I am going to take the point of view of the partner and the partner's parents. If your son does not put the partner on a title or acknowledge her financial help in paying for this house he should return her parent's monetary gift or she should have a prenuptial protecting the amount she has contributed toward the down payment.

I do believe if you think you DS is mature enough to purchase a home from you, you should also trust he can choose whom he shares it with, though. Let him take care of his choices mistakes and all.

I think it's a perfectly reasonable stipulation that NGT's son needs to marry his girlfriend before she is put on the title of the home. After all, NGT is giving her son the money that will enable the purchase of the home. The girlfriend and her parents don't have anything to do with NGT's stipulations.

I think this is one of the unfortunate problems with a financial gift. You can't always control what the person who receives it does with it.

My parents had this problem with one of my siblings to whom they regularly gave money to for needed things: a new roof, a new furnace, things like that. And this sibling's (now ex-) husband would take the money and spend it on himself.

Did I miss understand or did NGT state the the GF's parents have also gifted funds to the couple?

If it is to be solely his house than he should not use her parents' money towards the purchase of the home. He can take a refundable security deposit and charge her rent but it sounds like the the gf and her parents are being lead to believe, by your son's actions or lack thereof, that this is a joint endeavor. If that is the case she too has rights to protect her investment.

It appears they both did? Is there a large difference in the amount the OP is providing compared to GF's parents? OP says giving "substantial" and GF's parents "some". What's the difference between substantial and some? $100K vs $10K?

I worked in lending for about 10 years and you absolutely can have a loan against a property and not be on title. The most common time it happens is when a quit deed is signed, it is just not a very smart thing to do and I seriously doubt that the bank or the girls parents would allow her to do that. Lending guidelines have become very conservative so as someone pointed out earlier, he most likely couldn't qualify for the mortgage on his own and needed her income. Her parents are probably adding funds to help out and bring down the loan to value for a better rate. If they both signed the mortgage, the bank will automatically write up the deed as john doe a single man and jane doe a single woman blah blah blah. They are both equal owners and the bank has a lien (the mortgage) against the property. If they ever separate, just as in a divorce one would have to buy out the other and refinance or they would have to sell. If he bought her out without refinancing and she quit claimed the property, she would no longer be on title but the lender will not honor that arrangement and in the case of default, she would still be equally responsible for the debt. Some loans also have a clause that allows for someone to assume the loan in which case the person keeping the house has to basically requalify for the loan they already have.

If you are not on the loan, you really have no right or business contacting his lender to inquire about the details of his loan. Due to Federal privacy laws, they are restricted from discussing his financial information with you anyways. But, once the deed is recorded at the county recorders office, title does become public information. That said, I'm just going to be honest with you and say that your son is an adult and as hard as it may be sometimes, you really should respect his choices and privacy. Whether you see it now or not, the more you try to control the situation, the more strained and alienated your relationship with him/them will become, especially if he really does love his significant other. My son in law had a mother who he says didn't respect his choices or privacy. When he met my daughter and they grew committed to one another, his mother said some very offensive, hurtful and most importantly untrue things about my daughter. My son in law was livid and unforgiving. He literally disowned his entire family, rescinded their invitations to the wedding and fifteen years later will still have nothing whatsoever to do with them. He says it's because of what his mother did, but I think her trying to control his life even when he was an adult was the primary reason. I don't know you or your circumstances, but I hope you will think twice before you push things too far.

If selling the house to him relieved you of a burden you didn't want and you gifted him funds because you wanted to sincerely help him (as opposed to a means to control) then let it go, allow yourself to just accept things for how they are so you can enjoy the experience of watching them make your Mom's place their own.

I agree with those who have raised points about getting along with relatives' partners, because you may be stuck with them. I also agree that it would not be right if the girls parents contributed money under false pretenses about the girls' ownership (just like the what the son did was not right). But that latter point is not hers to fix or address; it is theirs.

IMHO what the son did was wrong, and the OP has the right to calmly, again, without dragging her feelings about anyone else into it, insist that the transaction is structured in accordance to their agreement. And if not, understand why not. Then decide what to do about it.

I think what the son did was very wrong, about a very material matter. Only the OP can know how he will react to being called out on it and if it can be resolved, and so she needs to judge that.

I want to thank all of you for your thoughtful and thought-provoking comments. I have read each and every one of them countless times.
I am still not sure what is going to happen here. I have done research and still do not have an answer. My son signed all of the papers as "buyer". I don't know if she can suddenly become a "buyer" without some addendum on the purchase agreement.
I have tried for many years to get along with this girl. It is hopeless. All I can do is tolerate if I am to retain any relationship with my son, which of course is strained. My entire family feels the same way; she is toxic. But for some reason my son loves her. None of us can figure that out, but it is his reality.
I can understand her parents' as well if they are contributing. Under similar circumstances, I am almost sure I would not - or have a legal recourse. Several of you suggested that I should have worked this through an attorney. The papers he signed were the exact papers he would have signed if he went through a real estate company. My friend is a very experienced realtor. She went over the papers and submitted them to the loan institution and to the title company.
My son has never, ever given me any reason to doubt his integrity. And maybe, just maybe he feels that he signed the papers, she is just on the loan and he is still keeping with my wishes.
My siblings and I (except one brother who didn't care) want the house to transfer to him and him only. They requested that of me; I did not put the thoughts into their heads.
So for right now, I have decided to just let this play out. Yes, there are ramifications if they split up. But there would also be ramifications if they married, then divorced. My real estate friend told me last night of a house that just transferred late January and the people are divorcing. Neither can assume the house on their own - it is back on the market. I realize also that if they break up, the house would need to be re-financed to get her name off the loan and also at then current interest rates. Our gift to him is just that, a gift. If he ends up losing it, then so be it. There won't be another of this type.
As strained as things are, I don't want to lose my son. I have spent the last five years crying myself to sleep many nights over this. I hope in his own way he is happy. None of us believe he is, but it is not up to us to question.
If her name ends up on the title, two of my siblings will be outraged -- but it will be up to him to explain the situation. It won't be up to me. Had I not seen her signature on the gift paper, I would not have known any of this. It still may be brought to my attention. The house doesn't transfer for another 30 days. I still think that since he signed all of the papers as "buyer", that there would be something else needed to be done to in effect change that. All I can do is keep praying - and hope that things will work out.
As I was saying to a friend who also has a lot of issues ---- when we were younger and having babies, did we ever think we would be dealing with the issues that we currently are? Both of us agreed that we did not.
I am hoping that what is happening now is due to my son's ignorance - and not a blatant disrespect of me.
Thank you again for all of your insight. I appreciate how so many people took their time to try to help me. Enjoy the day!!

I think you are being very reasonable and I totally agree with you. I hope things work out.

Good luck. The laws are state-specific on this. I do recommend you talk to an attorney who specializes in real estate on the specifics of the situation. The realtor may be experienced but this is a specific case.

Mtn, my control comment was focused on what the son might very well decide to do once he owns the place. If you reread it carefully, I think that might be clear, but perhaps not. It had nothing to do with the mortgage issue. Merely saying that once it is transferred, better to just let go. It is entirely possible that the son will add her name to the title. Far better, if they are concerned, is to put the home in a trust with the son as successor trustee. Ours is set up in a way that any of the property inherited does not become part of a divorce settlement should that ever occur, but remains wholly our son's property. Btw, we adore our DIL and do not ever expect that clause to be triggered.

If I felt the way you did about this situation, I'd rather continue scraping the wallpaper with my teeth than deal with this. It seems like the individual parties are operating under their own assumptions as to what is happening here, and your son is caught in the middle. You really need to speak with an attorney.

My husband said you can't get a mortgage on a property if your name's not on the title. He questions why her name is going on the mortgage unless there are plans to put her name on the title. Your son could take out a second mortgage with her parents if they want to protect their money. My husband gets mad when I ask for second hand legal advice so don't take this to the bank because I might have misrepresented the facts to him.

Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised ( This is me talking, not my husband.) if your son doesn't get a call from the title or mortgage company if they pick up on this. Tough decision for him. Maybe he'd be happier if he didn't have to make a choice.

The title deed is a document that lists the names of the individuals who own a home. When you obtain a mortgage, the lender will require at least one borrower to appear on the title deed. However, it is possible for other borrowers to appear on the mortgage without signing this document.

But if your son is purchasing the house, and you are giving him significant financial assistance, I can understand your concerns. But what do your siblings have to do with this? They aren't giving him the house. Are they going to lose something financially by him buying the house rather than it selling on the open market? I am not sure why they can have an opinion one way or the other.

Tough situation but really it's none of your business.

The gf is foolish to take on a mortgage if she is not on the title to the house.

Man it gets my ire up when people are judgmental about parenting posts.

She gave him money to purchase the house under the condition that it be held in his name. He took the money, but, she fears, may have violated the condition.

That is most certainly her business.

Also, I think the matter is kind of closed, come to think of it, as the OP graciously thanked everyone and indicated she had decided on a course of action.

This is just an idea...that may or may not work (and I think it may have tax implications for you, so you'd have to work it out with someone). Anyways, I have seen up here in Canada, parents "loan" their kids money without the intention of calling in the loan, which prevents a spouse from benefiting from the gift. For example, in Canada you could act as an interest free "lender" for your son's mortgage but hold on to the IOU. I think this could prevent, for example, a spouse being able to claim equity in the house should a marriage dissolve. I'm not sure how the IRS looks on these arrangements compared to Canada Revenue* (not to mention divorce course) but just thought I would throw it out there. Of course if the other person did contribute equity, they deserve to benefit proportionately.

*for example, there is no gift tax in Canada.

palimpsest said, "But if your son is purchasing the house, and you are giving him significant financial assistance, I can understand your concerns. But what do your siblings have to do with this?"

no_green_thumb said, "We are giving him a considerable amount of money"

I was just assuming that the "WE" was referring to the siblings as well? But even so, the siblings agreed to allow NGT's son to purchase the house with the stipulation that it only went in his name. I think that makes it the sibling's business.

Whatever the case may be, NGT, I really do hope that all turns out well and your relationship with your son does not suffer.

I had thought this thread had ended with my last post and was not going to post again - but I do have an update.
Thanks to all who wished me well. I don't know any of you, but it means a lot. Many of us struggle with family issues. I am trying my hardest to keep my son and connect with this girl. And Thank you Mtn - I so appreciated and respected your posts.
All I asked in my original post was if her name could be on the loan and not on the title. I had seen her name on the gift paper as an applicant.
The money and my siblings - the reason my siblings are involved is that when my son asked to purchase the house, I consulted with them. Since we are all going to share in the sale of the house, and it was their mother's house as well, I felt it was necessary to consult them. I am the executrix of her will. All wanted the stipulation that until/if they are married, the house would be in my son's name only. I can't answer if we would be making the same decision now, but at the time we were all on raw emotion at her sudden death and that it was we wanted. We consulted back and forth and set the price. The "we" giving him money is my husband and I. Siblings are not involved in that. I use the word "substantial" and will not give a $$ amount, as I think money is relative to how much you have. While I believe this to be a considerable amount, others may think it a pittance. I can tell you my son was floored when we told him, so again relative. We are giving him a gift - and once you give a gift, it is no longer yours. If sometime down the line, they break up and he loses money in the settlement, so be it.
At issue was his integrity, something I have never, ever questioned. So that is why I posted the question. I thought by posting on an anonymous forum, I would receive an answer. I received many.
My husband has stayed out of this. This is my mother's estate and he believes it should be handled by me. Also, to add, the house is really the whole estate. She had nothing besides that. Yesterday, when he saw me on my third box of girl scout cookies and eyeing the wine bottle, he decided it was time to step in. So we discussed this and he called our son. My husband has a gift of picking the exact appropriate words. He just said that having seen her name on the gift paper, if anything has changed regarding the sale of the house, that perhaps he should contact me and my siblngs so that we are not blind-sided when we need to sign the transfer papers. I don't remember his exact words. He went so far as to have this all written out before he called him. My son said that her name will be on the loan, but that only his name will be on the title. He said that she is not happy about that, but that this is the agreement he made and he will not go back on his word. I just hope that he has everything straight with the loan company and title company --- as I think this is kind of unusual. But at least I know my son is true to his word. He probably didn't bring it up to us, as we didn't tell him he couldn't have her name on the loan, just the title - but we certainly thought one followed the other. I am guessing they are talking marriage and probably figure they will transfer title in both names then. That is fine with us.
In any event, that is where this stands. I am totally letting this go until the final signing. If there is an issue, then I will deal with it.
Settling this estate has been one of the most gut-wrenching things I have ever done. As I said, other than the house, she pretty much died even. The house was a time-warp, so there would no valuables there. Other than a few little bumps, my siblings and I have gotten along extremely well. But it has still been awful, making decisions, hoping everyone would agree, disposing of her personal items, etc. I cannot even begin to imagine situations that are not as amiable. And I know not every estate is handled without issue. I am very grateful to my siblings that we have been pretty much on the same page. Guess Mom and Dad did their jobs well --- and I believe my husband and I have as well - at least right now, it appears our son is doing the right thing.
Now to try to figure out how to get along with his fiance -- but that would be another topic. It is a difficult situation, which hopefully will someday resolve itself. I keep hoping and praying.
Thanks to all of you.
Enjoy your day!

Lukk, Think of it like co-signing on a car loan, which is far more common. You are on the hook for the entire loan, but you don't own the car, either.

NGT, I'm glad to hear your confidence in your son was not misplaced. Good luck with the relationship with his SO.

Mtn, I completely understand, but car loans are different than a mortgage loan in a long list of ways. So while plausible (as in the case of a quit claim deed) it is not practical and it is pretty much unheard of due to the risks, especially post recession. Also, at least in mortgage deed states, like California where I was working, investor guidelines would actually prohibit it. Why? Because for investors it is all about risk and collectability and in that scenario there is a larger risk for collectability. For example, if the first party on the loan (and only party named on title) were to default, the secondary party would be less inclined to make payments for a property they had no legal rights to claim. Investors for car loans have a different set of guidelines and expectations, they also fall under different lending laws, which is why there are lenders willing to allow for co-signers to be on just the loan and not title. But if say in this particular situation, five years from now, he and his girl split up and a year later he then looses his job and falls behind, there is no way the ex-girlfriend will pick up where he left off and make the payments. For most people they would say, it's not a reasonable expectation because she isn't occupying the property and has no legal rights to it. There is just no way that any investor will buy that paper and the bank will be left holding an unsellable loan.

NGT, it sounds as if you have a wonderful husband and son and they are lucky to have you! You all should be commended for your handling of what could have turned into a mess. Nice.

I am glad things are resolved to your satisfaction.

NGT, I've been lurking and reading, and hoping that things would work out. It is such a difficult thing to deal with your Mother's death and then to carry out her wishes along with your siblings. I am so happy your son has not let you down. Your DH was wonderful to recognize your pain (had to grin a minute over the 3 boxes of GS cookes and eyeing the bottle of wine) and was able to calmly talk to your son. All the best to you and your family, and the future relationship with your son's SO in the future.

When we bought our FL house, we put my dad on the loan because he was going to contribute some to the monthly payments since he stays there part of the time too and we aren't sure which way it will make the most sense to take tax deductions for the interest b/c we lose some deductions due to AMT.

Anyway, we were concerned about potential problems as far as putting him on the title if he ever needed to go into a nursing home and wanted to try to qualify for Medicaid (didn't want the state coming after assets) and were told that it would be fine to have him on the loan and not the title (since FL has a homestead exception, we didn't end up needing to do this). So, it is done sometimes for various reasons, at least in some states...

I sure wouldn't agree to it as the girlfriend because I wouldn't want to assume responsibility for a house I didn't own.... but that's a separate issue.

Beagles, that is also a perfect scenario for a quit claim deed where a joint tenant releases his/her claim to the property but remains on the loan.

The GF is a fool to put money into the sale and not be listed on the title. I wonder if her parents understand what her position is.

Your son says he explained it to his GF and she is not happy, but has complied. So, a couple of thoughts-- 1. perhaps she is more committed to your son than you realized, to help him financially with no safeguard of ownership, and/or 2. If he explained it by telling GF this was all your idea/ your condition, your hopes of a civil relationship with her are gone with the wind.

Complicated situation, this......there is no outcome that will satisfy all parties.

Lukki, I surely understand what you are saying - and I don't get any of this either.
What I have to do right now is believe my son. I am thinking he may be misinformed, but I don't believe he is lying to us. I am still thinking that when I sign the title over, it will have both of their names on it. I do not know what I will do then. My sister is also on the title; I cannot even imagine her reaction. She does not know what has transpired over the last two weeks. I do not know what her parents are thinking either. They are on the other side of the country and I have met them twice. Our offer of money was way before theirs, so it would seem to me that they might have contacted us?? They know at the moment this is my house. If I were them, I wouldn't be putting a penny in.
Kswl, this is not a new situation. When he first offered to buy the house, my sister and I sat down with both of them and explained the terms of the sale, which were basically the price and title. No other strings were attached. So she knew the terms from day 1. But you are right, no outcome will satisfy all parties. The whole situation is horrible. I have tried and tried - we all have, and when any one of us wants to give up on her, I say try harder. We have all bit our tongues and tried to keep the peace. My son defends her every move - and can explain away any of her antics, FB postings, etc. She is both the antagonizer and the victim. I think he feels the need to take care of her. But at this point, at least we see our son, not as much as we would like, but we do. He is the youngest and we always seemed to have the closest relationship with him. Unfortunately, not anymore and there is nothing we can do about it.
I don't know what I will do if both names are on the title when I have to sign. I just don't know, but I do know that whatever happens, this nightmare will be over by June 1st.
Thanks to all of you for your support!
Great day to all!!

Fingers crossed your son will be true to his word. A lot is on the line here for your family and I hope he understands this. This is a legacy passed on to you and your siblings and you have passed this on to your son in a financial way by selling it to him, and him only. He would bring that to a marriage, if I am understanding all this correctly, and what one brings to a marriage in the way of family property generally remains with the spouse who brings it. In the case of a home bought by both spouses, however, the rules may not apply. It might get tricky. The names on the title deed will tell all.

I do not believe my son will knowingly deceive me. Yes, a lot is on the line here. But right now, my relationship with my son is more important than the house. I have resigned myself to the fact that her name might be on the title when we go to sign. At first, I thought I would just refuse to sign it, but now feel that I will do whatever I need to.
I find this whole thing very interesting from this standpoint. We have all walked on eggshells for 7 years. We (meaning my entire family, friends, etc.) have done everything to keep the peace --- but yet, she is able to get away with whatever she wants to do. I could write for hours regarding her antics, but it is very painful to keep digging. My husband is the most mild mannered person on earth, but even he is sick of this. We all are. Every time we see her, there is an issue. I keep hoping and praying that one day my son will come to his senses, but also have resigned myself to the fact that he may not. I hope one day he will not regret not having children, not that he doesn't want them - but she hates children. I hope one day he will not regret a lot of things, but he is a grown man and I cannot control what he does. All I can do is hope, pray and wait.

What a mess, but you certainly are handling it well.

Some people specialize in creating friction. Unfortunately, these same people can be very appealing because their drama and never-ending conflicts makes them seem full of life and spirited.

Exactly, ML. Some people just seem to thrive on chaos, and creating chaos and drama around them.

ngt - It is a delicate and complicated matter and I have nothing to add except that I sympathize with you and your family and I hope that the settlement goes smoothly. Your love for your son shines through so clearly in your posts and I can imagine how difficult this has been. You've shown a remarkable understanding of the situation and I truly admire your forbearance. Wishing you all the best.....