I use uncomposted Fir bark in all my mixes, so yes it will work very well George.

Al, wouldn't this be in the dust to 1/2 inch particle size, as with Pine-based 5-1-1?

Josh

Itsa shape thing. I think, because the 'scales' of pine bark are flat and sort of nestle together, they can be screened larger than fir bark, which is more like nuggets.

For example, I try to find PBFs that are all under 1/2" so I can use the entire bag for 5:1:1, but if a significant fraction of it was larger than 1/2" I'd screen it through 1/2" and call it good. For the gritty mix and fir bark, I'd use 1/4 & 1/8" screens. If I was using fir bark for the 5:1:1, because it's so chunky instead of quite flat, like pine, I'd want it much smaller so the fine material doesn't all end up on the bottom of the pot.

Al

Hmmm, this is honestly the first I've heard of this, and I've been using uncomposted Fir bark my entire gritty and 5-1-1 experience :-) We've certainly discussed the shape issue in regard to the Gritty Mix screening size, but never the 5-1-1.

Josh

I think this is the first time it's come up. We could probably count on one hand the number of times someone asked about using fir bark in place of PBFs in the 5:1:1, yes? Maybe I'm not remembering correctly. But .... 1/2" fir bark is going to have a LOT more air space than 1/2" pine - even with the perlite mixed into the pine. The end conclusion would be - we either water quite a bit more frequently or try to limit the maximum size to something less than 1/2". What say you?

Al

A number of us here are using Fir bark in our 5-1-1 (and more frequently discussed on the Hot Pepper Forum, which I don't visit any longer). Initially, there is a little more consistent watering to be done, but the ingredients do "bind" in reasonable time and the water retention curve quickly goes up.

Greenall Micro Bark on a 1/4 inch screen (for making Gritty Mix).

Josh

Does the bark in the picture have a lot of fines (<1/8) in it before screening? or is it a prescreened product?

Al

Decent amount of fines, not prescreened.
I wish I could get my hands on a good (economical) source of prescreened bark!

Josh

Does anyone have ANY idea where to buy prescreened bark? I would not be willing to pay through the nose, so to speak, but I would be willing to pay somewhat of a premium for it.

Timothy

It's only a hop/skip/jump down to Robert's Flower Supply in Columbia Station, OH if you want fir bark. You should be able to find PBFs if you look hard enough.

Al

That is what I have been waiting to hear!

Thank you Al, and a Happy Belated Birthday to you, sir!!

After looking at their website, Al, would the small size fir bark suffice for the gritty or would you recommend the fine size?

I messaged you a couple days ago and never heard back. I assumed that it was lost in the Ethernet. I basically thanked you for being my catalyst for becoming a container tree farmer. I have learned volumes from you and most of the rest of the people on this forum.

My heartfelt thanks to you!

Timothy

Thanks for the b-day wishes, and for the kind comments! I saw your message, but I'm a few days behind on my 'plant mail' due to a pretty full schedule. I've really only been here at the forums on a hit/miss basis.

Given a size choice, I'd choose the fine size, but in my last conversation with Robert, I was left with the impression that if you wanted the fine, you'll need to call ahead (for p/u orders), and you might end up paying more for fine material than small.

If you can grow them for a reasonable price, there's a market for whip size popular bonsai species - especially bare-root spring sales. E.g., if you had trident maple and Korean hornbeam, I'd buy 50 of each. Larch is pretty popular, too.

Best luck with your venture. I always figured I'd like to do something along the lines of developing prebonsai material when I retire.

Al